Acc...just some followup, you are right. I'm mid-30's, twice D'd and no idea what happened. So you tell me how i'm not to be terrified of it happening again? i (hopefully) have another 35 years on this earth, i don't want to go through the rest of it alone, but then again i surely don't want to go through this yet a 3rd time. And is it me? 1st W went PA/BD, D'd me, married OM and D'd him in less than 3 years. so was I the one with issues/the bad husband? i do agree that anxiety played a part in this. i have a phD IC telling me "this is on her, yes you could have done this/that, but she chose to let you go and not try to do anything". IC says "she has likely multiple issues" and i nod acceptingly because she's the expert, but do I really believe her or maybe was it just me. thankfully today i can write this and say i'm not spinning like yesterday. i'm too tired of thinking about it to go down that path again today.
Steve...yes you are right i am fighting against/for myself. my ability to withstand emotional pain, be patient, have faith all are being greatly tested. i will BE...OK? the jury will be a long time out on that one. i've had enough and i say that as matter of factly and without malice/bitterness towards W as i can.
AS...yes i understand. even though W gave me a shotgun blast to the heart and walked away, with time while the wound won't heal, it will scab over and leave my thoughts. to be ABSOLUTELY clear, I completely accept and know that I could have/should have done more in our MR. I HATE myself for not giving 100% to it like I know I could have, BUT who among us will EVER give 100% all the time? where it is cut and dried for me is, if there was a PA/OM, i'm done. as has been said here many times for sure i had a part to play in the demise of the MR, but i did not go outside of it and desecrate it. and again I HATE myself for being unable to provide to my W whatever it was that she needed to make her value the MR. but how much can I sympathize if they go wayward/selfish and just destroy everything? should Hurt have to go through the emotional abuse of his W showing him the clothes he's going to take to see OM and flat out know that is where she is off to, simply because he was a good guy, he wasn't 100% what she needed at all times? God knows this is terrible for everyone and in NO WAY am i not responsible. read some of the infidelity sites, those LBS AND WWs who try to R go through total H**L and not just for a year or so, but for the rest of their lives. and no, i have no clue on my sitch, absent knowledge I think the problem was all me. if i hadn't let her lose respect for me, done more of this or that, etc and thing is as Acc just highlights even if i did all this work and try to cover all my bases, she may still have left. i know we focus on the LBS and what we can control, because heck that's all we can control, but i worry sometimes that the balance in who needs to do the work between the LBS and WW is skewed more to what the LBS did wrong than what the WW did wrong. but don't worry or think me unaccepting of my responsibility Stander, for the rest of my life i'll think about what i did so wrong that cost me the love of my W. and i guess i should have explained, i can forgive her for being done with me, but i can't forgive her for the PA/OM IF there was one.
twofeet...you're welcome, you have a very tough sitch and with three small children, it pains me to read of families being torn apart. when i feel like need God's strength and then i read your sitch, i ask him to give what i asked for to you...you have it much tougher than i. i think being "alpha" when dating is one thing, like let them go, more fish in the sea. a bit different i believe when you are in a committed MR and the search is over so to speak. i agree i need to steer clear of the circular thinking as it's a no win.
i do hear you on crossing the bridge if/when i get there, but she ain't coming back particularly because no way she'll be able to be fully repentant and if there was a PA/OM, she lost me right there anyway. just have to keep on moving forward with the pieces i have left.
i have seen guy friends completely blow up wonderful marriages chasing stupid s**t, my heart pains for their wives. both genders in modern relationships are equally screwed up. thankfully for guys like us we landed here and can learn ways to make ourselves better men/spouses, but sadly i do wonder if that will make any difference when women seem to feel so entitled that they should always be happy, no struggles and if there are, well drop the guy and go find another. my IC told me "i don't think the 30 year marriage will continue", i'm sorry then as at my age, I can't emotionally nor financially accept having 6-7 5 year marriages when the happiness meter for modern ladies goes less than 100%. i wish you the absolute best in your sitch. i may be entirely screwed up in mine, so i take hope in the chances for others. it will be a long time before i have to worry about another relationship again.
I'm mid-30's, twice D'd and no idea what happened. So you tell me how i'm not to be terrified of it happening again?
There's a simple answer to that -- you get good with you.
Depending how you're raised, what your background is, etc you inform your self-esteem by measuring your life. You have certain assumptions you may not even be aware of about what it means to be valuable. You might assume that if you don't own your own house you're somehow failing in life. You might assume that if you get to age 40 and haven't hit some level of seniority in your career you're somehow failing in life. You might assume that if you don't have a fancy car at some point you're somehow coming up short.
You also might assume that if you don't have a traditional nuclear family by a certain age you're failing, or if you have been divorced you're somehow less valuable, etc.
If you don't feel worthy, you're not going to be attractive, and your relationship isn't going to be healthy, because your insecurities are going to have an ongoing negative impact on it.
I'm not suggesting that it's possible to wake up one day as a "confidence monster" -- its not. What I'm saying has more to do with accepting who you are, strengths and weaknesses, and accepting it. If there are things about you that you cannot accept as "good enough", ask yourself why -- are you making irrational assumptions about where the line should be drawn, or in fact do you have an issue you need to address?
If its the latter, address it, and then get good with who you are. It's the whole notion of self-actualization. If you can achieve acceptance of who you are, and know that you are valid and worthy, then a partner's reaction to you just really isn't that critical, because you know you're living with integrity. Its a "their loss" mindset if things do fall apart.
If you have that mindset, that you're good with you, that you'll be fine no matter what happens, alone or together, then there is absolutely nothing to be terrified about.
Originally Posted by ballast
i (hopefully) have another 35 years on this earth, i don't want to go through the rest of it alone, but then again i surely don't want to go through this yet a 3rd time. And is it me? 1st W went PA/BD, D'd me, married OM and D'd him in less than 3 years. so was I the one with issues/the bad husband?
Reading between the lines in your sitch, I think you have to work on your picker, as your IC has pointed out. A great book to read for you would be "Getting the Love You Want". The thesis there is that all of us have certain childhood hurts. We adapt to these hurts, and learn how to cope with them. Coping with these things feels comfortable to us.
We therefore are attracted to people who "mistreat us" in the same way our parents did. If your parents made you feel not good enough, you'll seek a partner who makes you work hard for their approval. Working hard for approval is your comfort zone. Unfortunately, this exacerbates our worst issues and keeps us stuck in the same dynamic that we struggle with.
By reading the book, you can see why you pick the people you pick, what's driving it, and deal with that. In the example above, you may not value a partner that didn't make you work hard for their approval, but it may be that it would be the best partner for you! Lots of work to do there ballast.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Steve...yes you are right i am fighting against/for myself. my ability to withstand emotional pain, be patient, have faith all are being greatly tested. i will BE...OK? the jury will be a long time out on that one. i've had enough and i say that as matter of factly and without malice/bitterness towards W as i can.
B I hear you. If my MR had gone to D I would have had trouble moving forward healthily myself, let alone twice. I completely understand how you would feel the way you do. Lots of prayers for you my friend. We are here for you.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Acc...i know i have high self esteem and for sure divorced twice is strongly against my measure of life success. that for sure i associate with failure and personal failure at that. I WAS NOT A GOOD, rather than WE both had our issues. and yes D having a non-traditional nuclear family, FAILURE. i have HUGE difficulty accepting that as ok. so i feel worthy, but in my scorecard of life i'm an utter failure. every and any vision i had for myself having lived a life of purpose and quality is scorched right now. so for sure i am good with me the person, but terrible with the story of my life. with time, IC and some acceptance hopefully i can free myself from that.
thing is, in no way did my parents mistreat me. i only have complete and totally positive memories of childhood. BUT in both of my MRs, my W's did not have great relationships with their parents. i never had to work hard for approval from my folks. they were always supportive and loving of me and not once throughout my childhood did i ever feel mistreated. and at least for my current wife i "thought" i chose well. i'm continuing to talk about my "picker" with my IC. i don't know that the scenario you suggest is correct to mine, BUT there is likely another scenario that does.
in my scorecard of life i'm an utter failure. every and any vision i had for myself having lived a life of purpose and quality is scorched right now. so for sure i am good with me the person, but terrible with the story of my life. with time, IC and some acceptance hopefully i can free myself from that.
Please work on this with your IC. This is not a healthy perspective. The failure of marriages should not mean that your life is a failure. Marriage is a two-way street and you cannot control the outcome, you can only live by your values be content in knowing that you did your best. Of course you, and nearly all of us here, could have been better husbands or wives, but it is the WAS who left and broke the commitment, not you.
Hang in there.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
I HATE myself for not giving 100% to it like I know I could have, BUT who among us will EVER give 100% all the time?
Oh for sure, I totally agree. And I wasn't suggesting this is ALL your fault, that just that both of you played a part in it and all you can do is own your part because you can't make her own hers. That's on her.
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i had a part to play in the demise of the MR, but i did not go outside of it and desecrate it. and again I HATE myself for being unable to provide to my W whatever it was that she needed to make her value the MR. but how much can I sympathize if they go wayward/selfish and just destroy everything?
Agreed. With the benefit of years of hindsight on my sitch I ask myself why I even wanted to reconcile with a woman who would rather quit and run than put an ounce of work into trying to repair the problems. The woman I knew before would have done anything to keep us together, but the woman I saw at BD was a different one. Why she changed I'll never know.
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I think the problem was all me. if i hadn't let her lose respect for me, done more of this or that, etc and thing is as Acc just highlights even if i did all this work and try to cover all my bases, she may still have left.
Yup.
6 months before BD (almost 20 years married):
Wife- "(crying) please you can't let anything happen to yourself, I couldn't bear to go through life without you, I don't know what I would do! (sobbing)
Me- "What? Why are you saying this? I'm fine, there's nothing to worry about!"
Wife- "I just want you to know, I wouldn't survive without you! Just please, take care of yourself!"
6 months later at BD:
Wife- "I can't do this anymore."
Me- "What do you mean? Can't do what?"
Wife- (blank look)
Me- "Do you mean be married?"
Wife- "Yes, I can't do it anymore."
So yes I did things wrong in the M. I own them and I have worked on changing those things about myself. But when the rubber hits the road all I can say is a hearty WHAT THE F??? I mean come on, what changed between 6 months before BD and BD? Nothing at all. So you are right, own your part but accept that it was very likely beyond your control anyway.
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but sadly i do wonder if that will make any difference when women seem to feel so entitled that they should always be happy, no struggles and if there are, well drop the guy and go find another. my IC told me "i don't think the 30 year marriage will continue", i'm sorry then as at my age, I can't emotionally nor financially accept having 6-7 5 year marriages when the happiness meter for modern ladies goes less than 100%.
Agreed. Here's the thing- we don't NEED to get remarried though, do we.
I'm not sure that is a woman thing... my H also has that expectation. I think anyone who cuts and runs from a marriage and a family without first talking to their spouse and trying to fix it, is made of the same cloth. The expectation is that a relationship should be effortless and easy otherwise it is not right. My H seems to have been raised with that idea. I was raised with "nothing worth having is easy"...very different mindset and approach to life.
I'm not sure that is a woman thing... my H also has that expectation. I think anyone who cuts and runs from a marriage and a family without first talking to their spouse and trying to fix it, is made of the same cloth. The expectation is that a relationship should be effortless and easy otherwise it is not right. My H seems to have been raised with that idea. I was raised with "nothing worth having is easy"...very different mindset and approach to life.
A few years ago I was approached by an ex-gf. She was having marital problems, and I (wrongly probably) confided in her that I was in a SSM.
She suggested we have an affair. I told her no. I said: "I truly believe that if people put the energy they have to put into cheating (the sneaking around, lying, etc) into their marriage, then their marriage would be better and the problems in it could be fixed."
She wanted to take the perceived easy way out. I was advocating putting in the hard work necessary to fix a marriage. I agree with you Deja, anything worth having take hard work.
Found a few years later that she did have an affair. She is still with her husband but found out the hard way that As are not what they seem to be when they are first embarked on.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
deja...to be clear I can only speak from a guy's perspective regarding ladies, but as I've said before I have seen several guy friends be complete idiots leaving their families in pursuit of "stupid S88T" as I'll call it. the entitled feeling is pervasive to both genders for sure. it "seems" to me that when men walk away they are more likely try and come back, whereas for ladies it "seems" no matter what once gone, they stay gone. maybe that is more of an accurate reflection on the quality of the ladies that men leave rather that the quality of man that a woman leaves.
the ease with which so many of both genders discard their marriages, break up their families for entitled, selfish, me first justifications is terribly sad.
