Sandi's Reflections - Part 2

[RR17]

Hey RR, Sandi...sorry for my intrusion...

RR, why not getting out of the comfort zone?...like doing some travelling?...I have done some of that.


patience RR (sorry, I had to say it ;))

I'm not taling about just getting her in my bed. I more concerned about expessing the conditions Sandi2 described.

[neffer]

Hey RR, Sandi...sorry for my intrusion...

RR, why not getting out of the comfort zone?...like doing some travelling?...I have done some of that.


patience RR (sorry, I had to say it ;))

I'm not taling about just getting her in my bed. I more concerned about expessing the conditions Sandi2 described.

I´m not talking about that neither RR. In fact it never crossed my mind that actually. Travel together helps bonding. Take Ds. A family travel, without any pressures.

[neffer]

Hey RR, Sandi...sorry for my intrusion...

RR, why not getting out of the comfort zone?...like doing some travelling?...I have done some of that.


patience RR (sorry, I had to say it ;))

I'm not taling about just getting her in my bed. I more concerned about expessing the conditions Sandi2 described.

I´m not talking about that neither RR. In fact it never crossed my mind that actually. Travel together helps bonding. Take Ds. A family travel, without any pressures.

It´s about having a project together. It could be something else. Something you both, or the whole family, could have as a goal, a tangible goal. A common cause to work on together so as to take some pressure away. Think about it man. Sorry for the interfering.

[sandi2]

You did address a lot of what I was looking for. In my sitch and I can't believe I am the only one, WW is demonstrating all of the signs of the "Will herself to do the right things" stage. It took a while to trust that it wasn't just to throw me off her trail. But I see it almost exactly as you described your sitch. BTW, I believe this stage deserves a legit Label.

I want to clarify what I mean by doing something from my will, rather than from emotions. People usually have some level of standards by which they conduct their lives. When we are passionate about a right cause, we can dive in with both feet and it's great. That's the easy way. If we don't have the passion but we know it's a right cause, we may still work for it. It's just not as easy without the passion.

In order to "do the right thing", you have to know what the right thing is. Make sense? For me, I knew it was wrong for a M woman to do what I had been doing, and according to my own moral & spiritual beliefs, the right thing started with me ending the A. Did I really want to end the A? I'm embarrassed to say that my emotions were kicking and screaming, "Don't do it, don't do it". But my actions did it. When we do the right action, our emotions will catch up and feel right, too. Yes, actions count a lot more.

When the couple is residing under the same, either as IHS or just sleeping in separate beds, it would be very easy for the WW to try to slide under the bar of H's stipulations of reconciling with her. In other words, she might not want to make a verbal commitment to working on the MR.....much less doing whatever is necessary to save it. From what I have read, the WW is infamous for wanting to tell the H how things will be "if" she decides to reconcile. Some WW's don't want to even give the H a solid answer as to where she stands, and he finds himself playing a guessing game. Rather than plainly coming out with it, she'll say things like, "I'm still here", which should be an unacceptable answer, IMO. If the H has to ask his WW where they currently stand and she gives a response similar to that one......she's not committed. She may want one foot in and one foot out, but she is not committed to doing what she needs to do, coming from the place of betrayal. So, my advice to all the H's is to not consider themselves reconciled or piecing if she won't do better than that.

There may be some exception, but from what I've seen, most WW's who have not reached the point of remorse still have a ton of resentment, and they want to twist the burden of guilt to the H. I've talked about this before, and although he may be eager to show off his skills at being a better H, he really needs to hold her feet to the fire......should she start making it about all his faults before she even lets him know if she's willing to just be willing to work on the M. Some cases where the couple are physically separated and she's suffered loss & consequences due to her choices, she may be ready and willing to what the H needs in order to feel safe in a relationship with her. The disadvantage of living under the same roof is when there has been betrayal and the wayward spouse just wants to seep back as little and as painlessly as possible. I think it certainly applies to the WW who has not yet felt remorse. It took me a while, as a recovering WW, to accept that my actions had been the worst thing done to a MR. I wanted to spotlight my H's faults and make them equally as bad as having an affair. Well, the WW just can't progress with that type of attitude.

So question is, stubborn W hasn't admitted that she is piecing or staying or anything. I have heard "For now I am still here" but as offten said here, actions speak louder than words. I think due to self esteam issues blah blah blah, she will always struggle to admit how wrong she was.

Well, you know her better than anyone. I'll just put it this way, I don't think a WW is going to "accidently" get to where she needs to be in her MR. There needs to be a conscious decision on her part, or otherwise you risk living together like roommates, at best. As for the self-esteem issues? I think it's pride that prevents people from admitting they were wrong. That's JMHO.

I believe many WW's try to ride the fence b/c they aren't sure they want the want a full relationship with their H.....so she tries to leave the back door open in case she wants out. That's a WW who is not committed, IMHO. I'll admit that I wasn't at sure when I first ended my A. I remember one of my mentors trying to narrow it down, and finally I was asked if I could just end the A and go NC with OM. That was the only thing I was being asked to do. It was hard! But that was me making a decision to do "the right thing" and end the A, despite what I felt. My heart wasn't in it, but I had to handle it just like some other addiction and take it hour by hour, then day by day, etc.

I do believe she is trying to show me.
Anyway, I don't think the feelings are all back, so she is still Willing herself. And I have tried to be supportive as you described.

How is she trying to show you? Has she gone completely NC with OM? Is she being transparent? And if she hasn't ended things with OM, then why are you be so supportive? See what I mean? If she hasn't ended her A, then your "support" efforts look more like compromising. I need to catch up on your sitch.

We are doing a lot of this Friendly activity stuff that you described. But telling her that I reqire for her to move back to the MBR seems confrintational. Telling her that sex will be expected seems like fighting words.

Well, that pretty much answers my question. She's still holding out and there has been no obvious statement from her indicating that she has made a decision. See, she keeps you in this guessing field. Look, when I made the decision to do the right thing, I did have a conversation with my H and let him know I had ended the affair, and would be staying in the M, and I became transparent. We even engaged in using a book for guidance for awhile, b/c he wouldn't agree to MC. But there was a conscious decision on my part. No, my feelings had not returned at that point, but there was no question which direction I had decided to go. It took nearly two years for me to get from the point of ending my A to the point of me finally breaking down my pride and sincerely and humbly apologizing to my H and really desiring to make things work. That's when my feelings of love started returning. But let me tell ya, if I had continued contacting OM......my H would not have been my personal cheerleader, playing happy family and acting as my BFF.

Do you see how the WW could be misinterpreted your "support" as meaning you are compromising or settling for whatever crumbs she throws your way? My H was not as tough on me as he should have been. He was not the one on the board getting the tools. But through my own experience, and from reading thousands of other experiences, I am telling you not to settle for her crumbs. She has to do better, but if she isn't getting the information to know what she's dealing with and what to expect, then she's likely not going to go as far with it as needed. She has to start with a decision. See, this is why I hate IHS. The lines are too blurred for the WW and the LBH. You are trying to act as if you are in piecing but you don't know where you are. And, if you don't feel you can tell her what you expect from a wife, then I'm afraid you won't get it. Of course, you don't feel free to lay out those requirements, if she hasn't even let you know anything. Giving her time for the feelings to return is one, but you should know where the M stands rather than trying to convince yourself she is trying, when she isn't.

So should I find the best way to comunicate the above requirments or continue to be patient?

No, the first thing you do is find out if she's still in contact with OM. Are you sleeping in the same bed with her? Is this still a IHS? If the A ended, then has there been a transparency plan for her? Does she act secretive with her phone and/or don't want you asking her questions? It goes nowhere until she ends things with OM, plain and simple.

I hope I'm wrong, and maybe you can fill me in, but it sounds as if you may have the cart before the horse.
Let me know. I'll be glad to go back and completely redo this post.

[RR17]

I want to clarify what I mean by doing something from my will, rather than from emotions. People usually have some level of standards by which they conduct their lives. When we are passionate about a right cause, we can dive in with both feet and it's great. That's the easy way. If we don't have the passion but we know it's a right cause, we may still work for it. It's just not as easy without the passion.

Oh, I get it. I think we have all willed ourselves to do that which is right without the passion to drive us. It feels good because it is the right thing but it can often be laborious. Hopefully, the feelings will come. I get it.

When the couple is residing under the same, either as IHS or just sleeping in separate beds, it would be very easy for the WW to try to slide under the bar of H's stipulations of reconciling with her. In other words, she might not want to make a verbal commitment to working on the MR.....much less doing whatever is necessary to save it. From what I have read, the WW is infamous for wanting to tell the H how things will be "if" she decides to reconcile. Some WW's don't want to even give the H a solid answer as to where she stands, and he finds himself playing a guessing game. Rather than plainly coming out with it, she'll say things like, "I'm still here", which should be an unacceptable answer, IMO. If the H has to ask his WW where they currently stand and she gives a response similar to that one......she's not committed. She may want one foot in and one foot out, but she is not committed to doing what she needs to do, coming from the place of betrayal. So, my advice to all the H's is to not consider themselves reconciled or piecing if she won't do better than that.

This is where I am. There are no solid answers because there are no discussions unless I start the dreaded R discussion and even that has been several months. I understand why LBSs shouldn't move out but in a way, Staying makes it easier on the WW/WAW and as you described, lines get blurry. On the other hand, I have seen a definite change in her actions.

I do believe she is trying to show me.
Anyway, I don't think the feelings are all back, so she is still Willing herself. And I have tried to be supportive as you described.

How is she trying to show you? Has she gone completely NC with OM? Is she being transparent? And if she hasn't ended things with OM, then why are you be so supportive? See what I mean? If she hasn't ended her A, then your "support" efforts look more like compromising. I need to catch up on your sitch.

I do not believe there is an OM. I believe that there hasn't been for years. I have snooped and read phone records and computer logs. No signs. W really doesn't have the extra time. Unless she is skipping Monday night bible study for rendezvous, and fabricating discussions to share with me, she really doesn't have any unaccounted for time. I realize anything is possible. I remember years ago when she was lying about NC, it is nothing like that now.

I guess it is an unofficial IHS. W moved out of the MBR about a year ago.
With time and DB she has gradually and continually demonstrated respect and consideration and transparency. And in a very authentic way. I'm convinced from a skeptical viewpoint. Not a sad LBS looking for scraps, kind of way.
Just no affection or intamacy. We dine out just the two of us. We work toward common projects etc. Watch movies, shop. She makes sure I have money, Asks about my day. Remembers what I tell her. It is convincing and genuine.

This is a brief summary of many months of progress. I don't believe I am putting any cart anywhere. I would guess we are exploring piecing but who knows? If you have time to catch up I would much appreciate it,
All my great supporters continually remind me to be patient. I am in Limbo, I have been here for a while. I can continue in limbo. I just wonder if I should if I should be putting my foot down as you have described.

[Manta]

I don't know what to do with my situation.

She's a WW, we are physically separated. DDay was back in August. She doesn't want to R, A us still going on. We have NC between us. Her AP lives in another country.

I hope Sandi you can look at my situation and comment.

[sandi2]

RR17. I'll try to catch up on your sitch, b/c it's kind of difficult to gather full details in one post, and/or try to offer advice in a post that covers everything.

Manta, I will catch up and respond on your threads.

Lost 8, I have read your threads and I would like to reply. I'll probably post on your thread.

I haven't forgotten about you.

[lost8]

Thank you Sandi....I don't think I am in dire need just looking for your thoughts at this stage. The ones in daily turmoil will be greatly helped with your knowledge and you deserve more than a thank you for your time and effort.

[Manta]

Thanks Sandi. Really appreciated.

[Phoenix9]

Quick question I've been looking for a better part of an hour on sandi's response to an "Everything ok?" request from WW. I know that it's a trap question, but I want to know why. I saw her post a response, but do not know what thread it is in. I've looked through the search engines with no luck.

Can someone assist? Please?

Edit: Found it! But I would like more insight please. I get hit with that question once every three weeks or so and I always response with "Nothing. Everything is great!". Also, I know that it never ends well with I answer...truthfully. I practically hand my balls to her on a silver platter.