Introduction

[TJT]

Oh! I forgot! Last night I had a weird dream but it's so easy to analyze it's ridiculous. I just wanted to share.

The dream was being in some car that ended up crashing into water. Someone else was with me but I don't think it was H, I think it was just a "character". Anyway I was telling the person we have to get out of the car. But rather than being scared of drowning and the motivation being not wanting to DIE, I remember distinctly that the motivation was more like letting the car sink...in other words I had been set on trying to find a way not to lose the car, until I realized it was sinking and there was nothing I could do. And I was actually kind of calm, whereas in other dreams like this (I have a lot of water-related dreams) I am almost always panicked and struggling.

How is that for symbolism?? I'm very interested in the fact that it was more of a "letting go" dream and even though my mind still races during the day and I don't feel that calm in reality, I hope it means that I am on the right path.

And then I had another "chapter" of dreaming where there was some person with a reptile head that when it opened its mouth it looked like a bunch of teeth and spun around, but I think it was actually just talking or something, I don't know. Super weird, no clue on the relevance of that one!

[TJT]

More dreams last night.

First one was I went to his place of work and saw OW there. My attitude was not angry or sad but more arrogant actually, although jealousy was definitely there as I remember telling someone that she wasn’t that pretty haha. That was pretty much the extent of the dream, sort of being there for a while and continuing to get glimpses of her.

The second one was I was at some event where there was a cute guy speaking and afterward there was some flirting. But then I found out he had a girlfriend so that made me a little sad. I think this one is about feeling rejected even when I feel good about myself (I was confident and wearing really cute outfit in the dream and felt like I acted very charming!)

Weirdly my mom texted me saying she’s having H dreams now. Said hers was also about seeing HIM at work and him being remarried...ugh

[Twofeet]

People (and women in particular) have a way of painting a super rosy picture on social media even when they are falling apart IRL.

Well, my life is falling apart and I'm definitely not painting a rosy picture on SM, haha. I have not really been on it at all, for the very reason that I don't want to be "fake" and it's obviously not necessarily the best time or place to let people know what IS going on, the way I'd like to at least.

On the other hand, my H is painting a rosy picture not even on SM, but in real life, to everyone he encounters. He is happy and this doesn't seem to affect him. He said he's happier around everyone but me, and I know I'm not THAT terrible even if I have my moments. It's absolutely him compartmentalizing what's really going on within himself.

So, I think the statement is more appropriate for anyone who has done something they're not proud of in general. People who are guilty and in denial of the things they really need to face and own up to or just generally address. It's a coping mechanism, so still validates what you've said about not using it as an effective gauge of true feelings.

I am moving this over to your thread from burned.

First and foremost, I absolutely abhor SM. It think SM is a big part of the reason why our culture has just gone down the sh!tter. I think SM is good for businesses and that's about it. I think personal SM has been eroding society, and adding to the whole me first instant gratification of our society/culture.

Anyway, your H is probably feeling great because he is shedding off what he sees as his problems. However we can't run from problems because they always catch up. I don't think you are terrible, he just hasn't had enough time to feel any regret or remorse, and if he does you may never know. Men compartmentalize. I do it all the time, its how I am wired. He may be feeling guilty and overcompensating. Why else would he be happier around everyone, but you? He likely feels guilty for what he is doing to you.

The important thing is to figure out what you did wrong on your side of the fence and make corrective actions to better yourself. Be the better you.

[TJT]

People (and women in particular) have a way of painting a super rosy picture on social media even when they are falling apart IRL.

Well, my life is falling apart and I'm definitely not painting a rosy picture on SM, haha. I have not really been on it at all, for the very reason that I don't want to be "fake" and it's obviously not necessarily the best time or place to let people know what IS going on, the way I'd like to at least.

On the other hand, my H is painting a rosy picture not even on SM, but in real life, to everyone he encounters. He is happy and this doesn't seem to affect him. He said he's happier around everyone but me, and I know I'm not THAT terrible even if I have my moments. It's absolutely him compartmentalizing what's really going on within himself.

So, I think the statement is more appropriate for anyone who has done something they're not proud of in general. People who are guilty and in denial of the things they really need to face and own up to or just generally address. It's a coping mechanism, so still validates what you've said about not using it as an effective gauge of true feelings.

First and foremost, I absolutely abhor SM. It think SM is a big part of the reason why our culture has just gone down the sh!tter. I think SM is good for businesses and that's about it. I think personal SM has been eroding society, and adding to the whole me first instant gratification of our society/culture.

Agree!

Anyway, your H is probably feeling great because he is shedding off what he sees as his problems. However we can't run from problems because they always catch up. I don't think you are terrible, he just hasn't had enough time to feel any regret or remorse, and if he does you may never know. Men compartmentalize. I do it all the time, its how I am wired. He may be feeling guilty and overcompensating. Why else would he be happier around everyone, but you? He likely feels guilty for what he is doing to you.

Okay for some stupid reason I've never put two and two together on your last sentence until you just said it. I mean I know he was acting in certain ways out of guilt, but I didn't match the guilt with him saying he was happier around other people. I was convinced I really was incapable of making him happy truly because of who I am, even though I knew that also didn't make full sense. So yeah, thank you for that point.

The important thing is to figure out what you did wrong on your side of the fence and make corrective actions to better yourself. Be the better you.

I've always been big on self-improvement and not afraid to face my flaws. I truly tried to make changes as it relates to me in my M to the best of my ability, given the lack of communication....and as I've gone back in my sitch I've started to give myself a lot more credit for that. But that's just to say that I've realized my biggest flaw wasn't necessarily related to the specific things I needed to work on for our M, but rather not realizing that there was something wrong with the fact that I was doing those things and not getting any response from it...

My H had always, always been the quiet type, so it was a little harder to tell when he apparently started to check out. So I know in the future, I need to trust my gut a little more and recognize these things in a partner and not be afraid to raise more of a concern, because any partner who really wants to work on it with me won't just push me away or make me feel bad about asking or checking in or whatever it is.

Even when we first got married, I had suggested doing even general couple "class" things like we did for our premarital session as a refresher to keep our relationship tools sharp. He always refused, I can't even remember why, despite saying before M he actually kind of liked the premarital thing we did.

Even on our FIRST anniversary we were supposed to do a letter exchange thing and then write a new one for the next year. We read the first one but he never seemed interested in putting a new one in. I think he said something like we could just collect the other notes we write each other throughout the year in there. And since he did in fact write me other short love notes ALL the time I just rationalized that the whole "tradition" thing of the letter writing just wasn't his cup of tea, and who was I to make that a big deal? Turns out that was the wrong question...who was HE to not realize how much it meant to me when I asked if he would do it!

These are the examples that really help me with perspective when I think back, because there are other things similar to this where the "thing" itself may have been small, but it meant a lot to me and he just never did it. Like the whole never calling me when I was traveling for work. Again, I just rationalized it because in all seriousness, I rarely saw him call anyone. He definitely preferred texting. But that doesn't make it any less important that I wanted him to call me and asked if he would multiple times, and yet that wasn't important enough for him to act on. Well, except the one time I described previously where it happened, and I told him how much it made my day, and then it never happened again...*shrug*

Telling that story again and knowing what I know now, maybe the only reason he called that one time was because he had done something "bad" while I was gone and it was really to make himself feel better, hah. Or maybe that was an honest effort by him that he just couldn't bring himself to be consistent with. I'll never know. And I'm proud to say that I've gotten better about being "ok" with not knowing because of how I've started to recognize the things that are truly mine to own and the things that are not. I still doubt myself sometimes but the more time that passes, the more it sinks in how not healthy the behavior was, and I definitely only want to proceed with something that is productive and healthy.

[TJT]

P.S. I forgot to address the compartmentalizing thing. That really bothers and scare me about future relationships, especially when it's positioned as just being "how men are". I don't think it's 100% outright a bad thing, but the whole not showing emotions, or at least not being honest about how you feel/putting it to the side and not addressing something directly is super detrimental to a partnership.

The reason I say it's not 100% bad is because in fairness, women could definitely benefit from having a little more of that skill rather than overthinking things as much as we do. The important thing is that both people recognize these traits and identify where they may be detrimental to agree on approaches that works for both. That's where I think a lot of people will just use the excuse of "well I'm a man" or "I'm a woman". We can't change some things but we can be aware of them and manage them if they don't always serve us well!

My H would always say, "We'll cross that bridge when we get there" about a lot of things. Hmm... I guess we're there!!!

[Twofeet]

TJT,

Are you seeing an IC? A really good IC can help you work through your problems and help you with improvement. One thing my IC helped me with is the communication dynamic between men and women. In general men think and communicate in a very logistical method. They are wired to compartmentalize, literally they have more neural connections than women in certain parts of the brain that result in this. Women on the other hand think and communicate from an emotional base, and have more neural connections in certain parts of the brain than men that leads to this type of thinking and communication.

You also mentioned that you and your H are introverts, I am in the same boat. As you probably know introverts especially of certain personality types internalize emotions. We feel just like everyone else you may never see it. It can definitely cause problems, it did for my R with my wife. I didn't really know how to deal with this until talking to IC. As far as my MR its unfortunately very likely too late. If you internalize emotions in the MR its definitely something you should work on. If your H does this, well nothing can be done about it unless he addresses it in IC or its something he works on if you were to ever recon.

[TJT]

Are you seeing an IC?

Yes

One thing my IC helped me with is the communication dynamic between men and women. In general men think and communicate in a very logistical method. They are wired to compartmentalize, literally they have more neural connections than women in certain parts of the brain that result in this. Women on the other hand think and communicate from an emotional base, and have more neural connections in certain parts of the brain than men that leads to this type of thinking and communication.

I understand. Yet we are smart enough to know/realize this, therefore smart enough to manage it or at least communicate and work to understand where we may be perceiving something different than the other person. But I still see a lot of people pulling the "I'm a man" or "I'm a woman" card. Basically we may be "predisposed' to think a certain way but that doesn't mean we can't be aware of it and do something about it.

You also mentioned that you and your H are introverts, I am in the same boat. As you probably know introverts especially of certain personality types internalize emotions. We feel just like everyone else you may never see it.

I'm very outspoken and direct and expressive. I'm not shy whatsoever. I do ruminate but you will usually end up knowing about it because I can't keep it in. The introversion quality in me is not getting my "energy" from other people. If you haven't read Susan Cain's "Quiet" book, I highly recommend it as it helped me understand why I don't come off to others and introvert but consider myself to be one. What I learned is that it's about energy. Socializing drains my energy even if I enjoy it. I have to recharge with my alone time.

I do understand there are other "types" on the spectrum where expression is an issue but I honestly think that's too much of a simplification to explain my H. It's poor communication skills in general, compartmentalization/avoidance, fixed mindset, ego, etc. And to be honest, laziness, which is the hardest one to understand since it seems his need is to be needed, but it's kind of hard to make yourself needed by someone if your effort is so low, unless their standards are really low!

If your H does this, well nothing can be done about it unless he addresses it in IC or its something he works on if you were to ever recon.

This is what the future relies on in my opinion. I have things to improve but I'm in IC, I've always been a learner and willing to change. H on the other hand has a very black and white view of things, doesn't believe people or behaviors can change, and I've noticed he does have a pattern of just "switching off" with people - not just me. When all of this started going down I very quickly realized that any attempt to ask him to work on things, whether with me or by himself, whether with a counselor or with a friend, his parents, or whoever, was for naught. He simply doesn't want to do it or doesn't think he needs it or figures he can do it himself.

I'm a fixer and as I've said before, part of what kills me is knowing that things COULD be fixed, that it's not a fundamental compatibility problem, but rather the other person simply doesn't want to do it. He has things to figure out and address himself. I know that and would definitely require that if he were to come back and act like he wanted R. As optimistic and hopeful and yes, I suppose happy as I would be... I have a long list of things in my head that he would have to agree to in order for me to even attempt to have a relationship with him again. I know it would not just be "back to normal". I know that even if him being around puts me back into a comfort zone, there will be a TON of things I would no longer accept or be comfortable with (him sleeping in another room, phone secrecy, the way he communicates, division of household work, norms around communicating in general about how he's feeling, what he needs, and ensuring we have regular check-ins...)

As I said before, the number one thing I think I did wrong in choosing him as a mate was not placing higher value on the growth mindset. He seemed so laid back that I never thought it would be an issue - we seemed to balance each other out well, with me being a little more organized and him being more "blow with the wind". Now I realize that the lack of stance isn't because there wasn't one, but rather I didn't know what it was and was never going to be able to influence what it was as a result. And I think part of that is because he really thinks he can "handle" and avoid things, not as if it's an intentional, malicious act toward me. But that's what he has to face up to: putting two and two together and realizing how his avoidance and internalization causes the issues it does, both for others and within himself.

[TJT]

Okay so I went out and GALed tonight. Went to dinner with a neighbor. Was excited because I'd been craving the food for the restaurant we went to for like a week.

Long story short there's a waiter there that I would see when me and H would go to this restaurant all the time. I've been a few times without H since everything has happened - once completely alone for lunch, and then this time with my neighbor. This waiter recognizes me every time and is always super nice.

Tonight he mentioned how he hadn't seen me in a while. I acknowledged it but kind of left it at that. But then he came by again when he dropped the checks and said something about how he hasn't seen us, and then I just showed him my hand without the ring like, yeah, it's because we're not together.

That then spiraled into this guy telling me how about 6-8 months ago his W split from him too out of the blue! And how you think something is so good and then all of a sudden it's not. He told me did work a lot but she also wanted a lot from him, so it was a double-edged sword . Apparently they have two children together. He told me how he went into a depression for a while, etc. I could totally see the upset in his eyes and as he was talking to me. I told him it wasn't his fault, and he told me I'd be okay after I briefly told him what happened with me and H, and he said things happen for a reason and all that same stuff everyone tells you..

And then in the middle of it he was like "I have to get back to work!" and he scurried off. But then I had this crazy moment where I told myself you know what... I want to give this guy my number. I asked my neighbor if I should and she was convinced he was flirting with me so much that if I didn't write my number down, she would do it for me!

So I wrote my number on the receipt with a note that just said "if you want to talk". At the end of the day I'm not sure if it was good idea or if I read the guy right but ultimately either nothing will happen or maybe we will become friends or maybe more (although with two children from a past marriage I feel that would be a huge barrier, given the difficulty it was for me with H and his son...but people are different and you never know I suppose).

The important thing to me is that I did it. I put myself out there, I had a little bit of a "spark" in me that became interested in this guy, and I got the feeling that he was a good man who cared about his relationships... and I'm not sure if either of us would be ready for something, but again...even as friends or whatever, it might be good to make a connection. And I didn't feel guilty about what would H think or whatever. I was and am still nervous as hell regarding what I would do if this guy were to actually contact me...but I am open to it. I think it was progress of some sort. I am proud of myself even if nothing comes of it!

Of course, I confessed to my mom because I was proud (and had a few drinks..) and she focused on the fact that he was a waiter and how I need to get more confidence and set the bar higher. I told her I don't associate the worth of a person with their job and she said she doesn't either but in all reality, she totally does, and even said I need to go for someone "richer". Eff that, I've seen plenty of rich douchebags and I am all about the person, but I do understand her hesitation given the sitch with my H and his inconsistency in jobs, etc.

For me, I am always going to know that I can provide for myself. Do I want and value another person to elevate that and do even more amazing things and appreciate that? 100%. But if I meet someone that's amazing and cares for me and meets all the other features I know is needed in a good relationship, and who doesn't mind that I have my own thing going on because they are secure in themselves and appreciate that about me, I don't give a crap if he's a janitor. May he be the most motivated and passionate janitor on earth!!

So yeah I hope you all are proud of my GAL!!

[DejaVu6]

You go girl!!! Even if nothing comes of it, who cares. Sounds like he might be friend material. I’d probably steer clear of anything more. Mostly because he seems emotional about it still. Don’t want to be a rebound. Having a friend who is going through a similar situation might be good though. It is tough for people who haven’t been there. Mostly what you hear from them is “you’re better off”... “there’s plenty of fish in the sea”... etc... I get what they are trying to do but it’s not overly helpful. I agree with you about someone’s job not being a way to measure who they are as people. There are plenty of rich jerks out there.

[TJT]

Thank you DejaVu! I agree and had the same thought about BOTH of us not really being "ready" but like you said, even if it's just as friends that would be good in my book! And I know I'd probably be the slowest person to "warm up" to a new relationship on earth at this point...but would also welcome the opportunity to form a meaningful connection with someone.

There were things he said in the span of like 5 minutes talking to me pretty much as a total stranger where I was like OMG NO DON'T YOU DO THAT TO YOURSELF (like blaming himself for things). I consciously thought that without any additional expectation whatsoever, it would be great for us just to talk!

If I really want to jump to the wild possibilities of the situation (because you know I already have) I thought about how I think I would do if I DID want to date a guy who has TWO kids, both a few years younger than H's son. It was already hard enough for me to fit into a step parent role with him...but I'm also convinced part of that had to do with H's personality and parenting style.

I've actually been on the fence about whether I want kids of my own and kind of stressed about if for a few years not wanting to make the "wrong" choice either way (not having kids and regretting it later, or having kids and feeling like it held me back from the life I wanted, or it just stressing me out and not being able to handle it... although I know people rarely admit that). The past few years in my M and especially now, I'm starting to feel like it's one of those intuition things where it's not necessarily me, but how I perceived my H as a parent as well, that affected my feelings on children with him.

I've honestly had feelings that maybe if certain parts of H's personality or habits were more aligned with mine in terms of parenting, I would have been more willing to start a family with him... in other words, maybe it's not that I don't want kids full stop, but more that I had an intuition about who a good partner would be to have them with. I am definitely thankful now that I didn't have kids with H... sometimes I ask myself if maybe that's one of those things he was unhappy with that "caused" all this, because he always said he would have a "herd" of children (but would claim he was okay with whatever I wanted)

I also get the impression that OW is all about babies, because she's young and thinks that's all cute and #lifegoals and she has friends who have had babies pretty young... and because of things her Ex BF has told me. So I have these images in my head of H thinking of her as like this fertile ground to procreate, even though he's older now and I truthfully don't know if he'd REALLY want that. Although since he has also developed some minor "performance" issues in the past year (which I couldn't care less about) I wonder if that had something to do with it too and him feeling a need to "prove" himself.

All of this just to say that I'm trying to figure out if in the future, anyone with kids from a prior relationship will be just as hard as it was with H... or if it may be different/easier for me to handle with a different person.

Not trying to figure it all out now for sure. Just content with the fact that I had an enjoyable night!