Ok, so had the talk with W about her thoughts on Retrouvaille.... I listened and validated and it was a nice, calm conversation. Ended on good terms and everything.
She said she would be interested in attending but her mindset going into it would be to place more emphasis on learning to communicate better with me since we will be in each other’s lives forever no matter what . She then said it wouldn’t be with as much emphasis on going to R.
We didn’t really come to a conclusion and she said we should maybe pray on it tonight.
So now what do I do? Is it worth still going? I’ve heard of stories of people going with this exact intention and being able to R. There are examples of people going to learn to communicate better for after the D and end up R.
Is this one of those believe nothing what they say things? Like she’s telling me this in a guarded sense since she’s had walls built around her that reach the sky and is afraid to tear them down so she isn’t going to let me know she’s really going with some emphasis on R? Even if she’s 100% truthful and she is going for post D communication skills, do I still chance it with the hope something positive comes out of it and by positive I mean maybe coming back to the M eventually?
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
Ok, so had the talk with W about her thoughts on Retrouvaille.... I listened and validated and it was a nice, calm conversation. Ended on good terms and everything.
AWESOME! Whether you go or not that is a huge step in the right direction as far as how you are interacting with her, especially given what you had previously said you were going to say. Well done!
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So now what do I do? Is it worth still going? I’ve heard of stories of people going with this exact intention and being able to R. There are examples of people going to learn to communicate better for after the D and end up R.
We're not supposed to share too much about what takes place in it, that's why if you try to research it you can't hardly find any info on it. They want you to be a "clean slate" going in. But in a nutshell, it's all about helping couples learn to communicate better. They give you certain tools for doing so. And you go through exercises while there to learn how to use those tools. Pretty much all the couples there are broken in some way. The ones that have the most success are the ones that still live together and where both parties are at least somewhat willing to work on things. The couples that have the lowest success rates are the ones where one is a WAS. The problem with WAS's is they are so far gone that they are unwilling to work on anything. They are done. They do stuff like Retrou just to go through the motions and say "well I tried but it's just not going to work out." They go into it with the conclusion already decided. Going within a year of BD is just too soon, the WAS hasn't yet come out of the fog.
To give you a specific example, one of the coach couples had a man that was going through MLC. Wow their story was something else. He was boozing it up, doing drugs and sleeping around all over town while she dutifully stayed home praying for him and waiting for him to "snap out of it". She begged him to go to Retrou and he did, and he did nothing but complain about how stupid it was and what a huge waste of his time it was the whole time he was there (he was the one telling this story by the way). As soon as they got home he went right back to his MLC behavior. Eventually he hit bottom (if I remember right I think he was driving drunk and got in a terrible accident and that was when he realized how far he had fallen) and started looking back, and saw that she was moving on. Then HE wanted to go to Retrou with her again. They went, and this time he fully embraced it and really tried. They reconciled shortly after and had been together ever since (I think it had been 10 years at that point). So the first time they went too soon after BD, but the second time it worked because HE had a change of heart.
So, going in with the right mindset makes all the difference. Your W and pretty much every other WAS our family here on these forums is dealing with is not in the right mindset. That said, as I said in your last thread I think if you get the chance then go, because the worst case scenario is you come out with a lot of great tools and knowledge you can use with your W in the future when she does soften her position, or use in a new relationship. Just don't go with any expectations that it'll turn her around because that's unlikely.
Ya, my expectations are it probably won't change her mind right now. I obviously hold out some hope that we can be one of the success stories that I've read about where the other S was pretty much going to work on communication for after the D and the weekend turned things around. But, I'm very mindful of the fact that there is probably a better chance that it does not.
I've always thought that our communication barriers have been the crux of pretty much all of our issues. Maybe learning the proper tools and skills to communicate better will have an effect on my W and get her to simply pause for a bit to rethink things.
I'm trying not to believe anything she says, so I have to wonder if her stating her mindset going in is just another guard she's putting up so I don't get any "closer" to her. After all, she still lives in the MH and has yet to file any D paperwork. But, I'm also curious why she is now considering going when before she wasn't? Is it because now she truly knows she is done and she's being completely honest that she just wants to be able to communicate better with me as co-parents? That could definitely be the case. She mentioned something about our communication being more "toxic" over the last couple weeks. I'm not sure if that is completely true but if that's her perception, so there isn't anything I can do about it other than to make sure I don't contribute anything to make things toxic moving forward. I need to stop trying to read her mind about it all and just be thankful that she's now considering it regardless of her intent in doing so.
Like you said AS, maybe I won't see any benefits from it with her right afterwards but it can't hurt to go. If it doesn't help us R, it will at least be a good tool for my own personal communication deficiencies and I'm all for personal growth.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
My fear is that your hopes are too high W1. Retrouvaille is like any other marriage bootcamp type thing. The LBS goes in thinking "so you're saying there is a chance!". The WAS goes in thinking "cool, another checkbox we can check of the things we tried to saved things". So please make sure, if you guys end up going, to not attach too much hope to it. If Retrouvaille were the magic bullet for saving sitches we'd be suggesting to all newbies to get their WAS there at all costs!
It isn't. So we don't.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Are you guys going to lie on the questions asked before you can attend?
So, when she brought that up to me last night, I validated what she said. Told her I understand where you are coming from but I'm not sure if they will let us in. I think they call each of us beforehand and ask to make sure there is no OP involved and ask that we are both open to R. She was sort of caught off guard. Said she didn't know there was an "interview process." That's when she said we can sleep/pray on it and the conversation ended.
I did some more research afterwards and read many people's stories about how their S was going for basically the exact same reasons my W said she was going to emphasize while attending. Not sure if they still ask the question if we are both open to R or not. Maybe they have relaxed on that? I don't know. I guess if she gives me the go ahead (hopefully this morning), I'll register and then we will see what happens when get the calls.
She never really said outright that she was putting zero emphasis on R. She just said she was putting more emphasis on learning to communicate better since we will be in each other's lives forever and then said that she was going to be "less emphasis" on going to actually R. I'm paraphrasing a bit but that was the gist. So, I would think even if she said there is a 1% chance of R, there is still a "chance" and that should satisfy the requirement if she's asked.....I don't know. I guess I will wait and see!
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
I obviously hold out some hope that we can be one of the success stories that I've read about where the other S was pretty much going to work on communication for after the D and the weekend turned things around.
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Maybe learning the proper tools and skills to communicate better will have an effect on my W and get her to simply pause for a bit to rethink things.
Those are expectations. And I get that, I mean we all want to hope there's an easy way to turn our sitches around. And it's good to have hope, but I think you're taking a short-term view when you should be taking a long-term view. There is no quick fix but you are laying the groundwork for possible recon down the road. Try not to set yourself up for disappointment!
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After all, she still lives in the MH and has yet to file any D paperwork.
Remove all pressure and she may not feel the need to file. That happens a lot.
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But, I'm also curious why she is now considering going when before she wasn't?
I think she is only considering it because you've brought it up multiple times, so if she goes she can say "there, see? I tried and it's still not going to work, I tried everything possible." In other words if she goes it becomes further justification to her for ending the M. That probably makes no sense to you, but that's because you don't understand how a WAS thinks. Not that anyone does, but they do follow certain patterns.
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Like you said AS, maybe I won't see any benefits from it with her right afterwards but it can't hurt to go. If it doesn't help us R, it will at least be a good tool for my own personal communication deficiencies and I'm all for personal growth.
Good, that is the right attitude to have going in.
