My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 5

[BluWave]

Hi Ovr, things cannot go back to how they were for certain but MR 2.0 should mean it’s better for both of you. Do you think this is your R? I may be wrong but it feels like there is a lot of sweeping under the rug here. She is far from owning her issues, you are trying to put band aids, my fear is even if you let bygones now how do you know you will not be here a few years down the road again if the big issues are left unresolved? In my opinion R needs true remorse, I have seen where people have said once the WAS snaps out of the fog they won’t even remember how badly they behaved or how they hurt their spouse. For me that is not good enough, after walking through the inferno I need empathy, compassion and true remorse to start R. It may not happen at all but without these wouldn’t the R be shallow? Wouldn’t the LBS spend their life looking over their shoulder? If and when the WAS shows genuine remorse and accepts their mistake without continuing to blame the LBS, that is when the LBS needs to build empathy and forgive to move forward. Your W has no regrets, remorse or the slightest ownership of her mistakes. You cannot continue to carry the burden on both your behalf
I may be wrong in this so please let the other vets chime in. I think you need to call her out on her BS, not confrontational, just matter of fact and let her know you won’t settle for this behavior. It may be pan to the fire but what you have going is not sustainable in the long run. Would you want to have a family with this woman and spend the rest of your life doubting yourself?
As I said, my suggestion may be completely off, my own MR train is almost at the D station, just chew on this and wait for others.
You have superb advice for the newbies so I know that you get these concepts, hugs

This! So much this! Thank you, Sia.

I firmly believe that in order to have a genuine M, both people must be willing to look at themselves, be willing to change, and have remorse for the pain they have caused. I see this from you, but she seems far from even admitting to what she has done. She has given you no reason to trust her. So while you might be able to do some patchwork here and there and get her into counseling, she does not yet have an open heart. SHE IS STILL WAYWARD! Sure you have made your mistakes, we all have. That does not entitle her to have an affair. And she hasn't even admitted to it? We all teach people how to treat us. How do you want to be treated by your W? I ask you again, how do you think you deserve to be treated?

Some posters here think they can come here, follow the rules, and somehow win their S back. Their only focus is that if their M is restored, they will somehow have a better life. That is not how life works! Life is what WE make of it. They also are so internally wounded they refuse to see their reality. Truth is, you cannot force someone to love you or respect you. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE! Don't you guys want to be in a M where you are loved and respected? Isn't that what M is about? Having someone physically there is not a real partnership.

We can only control ourselves in this and let them go if they are not good to us. She is not good to you, ovr! As you let her go, and then become a stronger and more resilient individual, you will realize how you deserve to be treated. Hopefully then you will accept nothing less. My vote: kick her to the curb. Man up and focus on overrnbow 2.0! Become a man only a fool would leave! Down the road, if and only if, she shows you a woman that is remorseful and committed to you, then you can consider if you want her back.

Blu

[harvey]

Some posters here think they can come here, follow the rules, and somehow win their S back. Their only focus is that if their M is restored, they will somehow have a better life. That is not how life works! Life is what WE make of it. They also are so internally wounded they refuse to see their reality. Truth is, you cannot force someone to love you or respect you. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE! Don't you guys want to be in a M where you are loved and respected? Isn't that what M is about? Having someone physically there is not a real partnership.

I needed to hear this today. Thank you!

[LoneWlf]

Cheers ovr, been catching up on your sitch. Seems like W is not sure in her inconsistent actions. My suggestion is you keep DBing like a mad man and become AMOAFWL. I see a lot of good posts from you offering your knowledge to a lot of newbies. Keep up the great work !! Blessings!

[ovrrnbw]

Hello and thanks for helping me out everyone. I realize I am not seeing things in my sitch because I am emotionally motivated not to see them, or that I am afraid of acting how I know I should because I am scared of running of my W.

I am/was sweeping things under the rug. I would tell my W when she was being disrespectful, which was too often. She obviously is not fully committed or else she'd be worried about how I feel about things and finding a way to problem solve together instead of being negative and combative.

Your W has no regrets, remorse or the slightest ownership of her mistakes. You cannot continue to carry the burden on both your behalf
I may be wrong in this so please let the other vets chime in.

I'd like to hear more opinions on this. I have forgiven myself and I am not harboring a ton of resentment of her affair, though it's not like it doesn't upset me.

That does not entitle her to have an affair. And she hasn't even admitted to it?

No it doesn't, she is still running from the repercussions of her own actions. Her parents are still enabling her in this, telling her it wasn't an affair. We weren't even separated by W's standards.

Their only focus is that if their M is restored, they will somehow have a better life.

I am guilty of this. I've always thought of my W as my life partner. We had amazing chemistry. The truth is, we never grew on that, but those feelings have always been present for us (she said this for herself in Oct).

My vote: kick her to the curb.

Do you mean file D? Or how do I do this, in your opinion?

Here are some recent details on my sitch:
Saturday, went shopping with W. She bought a Cricut and wanted material. So we went shopping for 4 or 5 hours and enjoyed the day mostly. W has been tired a lot, even with adequate sleep.

W has been mad at my mom and friends for sending Christmas cards and wedding invites to my name only. At first, I tried explaining to W why they might do that. That was dumb. The next time this came up, I asked her if there was anything she could do about it to fix it. She didn't respond much to that. So I asked her to let go of it if it was out of her hands. Well, she's been so focused on this and it's really chapping her buns.

Case in point, Saturday, towards the end of the day, I told W I'm going to my mom's tomorrow for her bday. W is upset, asks if she was invited, I tell her that I didn't think she'd attend anyways so I didn't ask. My mom doesn't want to see her on Thanksgiving, her bday, or Xmas for the first time in 10 months with everything going on. My W knows this. My W wants my mom to be a loving, super involved figure like her parents are but my mom is nothing like W's parents. So W shuts down, gets rude, and another card came Saturday night to just me. She opened it when we got home and got pissed. I told her she was being rude and that I'm leaving to go to mass.

By the time I got back she was asleep in bed from 6pm-10pm. Then she woke up and stayed up to 4 or 5 am when she made a ruckus and laid with her leg on me all night. I left Sunday AM with my pup to do some training for about an hour. I get back a W tells me she's going to her parents tonight. OK. Then she tells me she felt queasy in the shower and was dizzy and came out and fell on the bed. I asked did she eat, she said she ate candy, and that was it, since Sat morning. I told her to go to the Dr. She said they'll just say it's stress. I said too much, she was just trying to get me to feel bad for her anyways. She's still fighting depression IMO and isn't going to counseling or dealing with her issues.

So I went and enjoyed Sunday, W stayed "at her parents" Sunday and Monday night and then shows up early at the house today, unannounced packing food and taking a shower. Since it woke me up, I grabbed my stuff and left for the day because it's better for me to not see her or talk to her. And I haven't called her and don't plan to. She hasn't called me either. I could look at the car GPS to see where she really was, but I'm not going to unless she is coming back and telling me stories.

She also went to her parents last week to discuss my mom not wanting her to come over. Well, if my W was fully committed to our MR, I'd have to forgo my mom for the time being. But W is not and was not fully committed. Her parents think my mom was the OW for her husband 17 years ago. And she may have been, but I don't know what that has to do with their daughter's actions. It's like they feel justified b/c of this, and b/c I was horrible before. Oh well, can't change their minds. Warning to newbies: don't talk to your inlaws!!!

I really need to DB hard and not jump back into things with her without the full commitment. I've read Zeus's post about 5 times now and really need to pound that into my head. The crap relationship of her being a B to me, not being accountable for her own actions, running to OM, not working with me to solve problems, and being mad at everyone is getting old.

So it's back to GAL. Gonna train my pup some more, she's a 6 month old black lab, hunt more, go out with friends, cook a ton of food, run, lift, sauna, play basketball.

Brutal honesty appreciated, thanks everyone for reading!

[BluWave]

Ovr,

Today is so busy so I dont have much time or time to proof read. I will be back tho. I want to first say that I really like you based on what I read. Why? Because you remind me of my H. He is a pretty extreme NG too. We talk a lot on these boards about the bad qualities of it and how women don't like "beta males" (whatever the heck that means), but we don't talk about the positives that come along with it. There are many. You have an open heart, you are loyal, and you genuinely want to understand people. I like that about you. IMO many of the posters here that think they have NGS really don't. That was a bit off topic. The issue for you now is that you have continued to allow your WW to disrespect you and have a relationship with you without her having changed. And you continue to do so. Each day, week, month that this goes on, you are teaching her that you do not deserve to be treated better. I want you to really think about it. You are knee deep in this drama and it's getting harder for you to remove yourself now. This is why I lined up all of those questions for you to answer. I want you to really think about your sitch and where this is leading. I also really want you to dig deeper and think about why you are allowing this to happen. How people allow others to treat them speak volumes about how the see themselves and their worth.

I know I am hard on you. I like you and I care. But I think you are enabling your own messy sitch and enabling her wayward behavior. I think it's time to toughen up and put her aside for now. You, your health, and your happiness should always be first and foremost. How you decide to do that is up to you. You deserve a partner that is as loyal and compassionate as you are. The thing is, you have to show yourself the same loyalty and compassion. Have you thought about telling her that this drama is really wearing you down, that this current dynamic is not working for either of you, and that you need a break? And then sticking to it? Sure, she will throw a fit, pout, or act like a child (you already know that), but you can certainly be the grown up in this and tell her that you are serous this time. Then you need to really stick to it!!! Stand firm. Words are meaningless if the actions do not support them. You can teach her to treat you better, but it takes a long time, especially after enduring her abuse/lies for this long.

The reason I say all this is because it appears hard for you to detach, 180, GAL, when she is right there in your face kicking up drama every chance she can get. Something to think about. The details of how this happens, I do not know. First, you have to believe in it. Then you have to execute. Continuing on THIS crazy train is only leading in one direction. Crazy town.

Blu

[ovrrnbw]

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking and reading a bit. I've been getting out the last couple days and evenings and enjoying life. W came home Tues morning to (presumably) get clothes and shower. Prolly wanted to walk past me to see if I'd say anything to her. It woke me up so I got up and left quickly while she was in the shower, I didn't want to see her face.

Then last night I saw she was home so I kept on driving past the house and went to hang with my sister. W texted, asking where I put an earrings box. And then she called twice, and I didn't answer or respond. I'm sure she was wanting to temp check me while looking for these earrings or she's just selfish and her needs must be met immediately. She had stuff everywhere and I just kinda cleaned up and moved her stuff all to one spot clearly so she could have found it.

I got home late last night, she took the TV out of the master and my computer charger and her favorite pillow. Her computer charger has been broken and I told her to get a new one like ten times in the last year. I'll just go get a new one, I'm not talking to her or letting her get under my skin.

I read this over in SoTorn's thread:

"I need to get away from her because I want to get on with my life and I cant tolerate her continued disrespect "

. I feel pretty similar. It's just ridiculous and I'm tired of the rollercoaster.

As Blu and Sia said, I really don't like her lack of commitment, her not owning her own actions, and getting pissed at everyone for having feelings. Only W's feelings matter and I should be happy to just bask in her glow.... My W is a very good looking gal, like all of the women I've dated, but I was drawn to her b/c of how much she cared. She was, sweet, helpful, loving. Keyword there is "was". She isn't that caring person anymore. I'm going to go out and have fun with friends and live a little.

[SoTorn]

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking and reading a bit. I've been getting out the last couple days and evenings and enjoying life. W came home Tues morning to (presumably) get clothes and shower. Prolly wanted to walk past me to see if I'd say anything to her. It woke me up so I got up and left quickly while she was in the shower, I didn't want to see her face.

Then last night I saw she was home so I kept on driving past the house and went to hang with my sister. W texted, asking where I put an earrings box. And then she called twice, and I didn't answer or respond. I'm sure she was wanting to temp check me while looking for these earrings or she's just selfish and her needs must be met immediately. She had stuff everywhere and I just kinda cleaned up and moved her stuff all to one spot clearly so she could have found it.

I got home late last night, she took the TV out of the master and my computer charger and her favorite pillow. Her computer charger has been broken and I told her to get a new one like ten times in the last year. I'll just go get a new one, I'm not talking to her or letting her get under my skin.

I read this over in SoTorn's thread:

"I need to get away from her because I want to get on with my life and I cant tolerate her continued disrespect "

. I feel pretty similar. It's just ridiculous and I'm tired of the rollercoaster.

As Blu and Sia said, I really don't like her lack of commitment, her not owning her own actions, and getting pissed at everyone for having feelings. Only W's feelings matter and I should be happy to just bask in her glow.... My W is a very good looking gal, like all of the women I've dated, but I was drawn to her b/c of how much she cared. She was, sweet, helpful, loving. Keyword there is "was". She isn't that caring person anymore. I'm going to go out and have fun with friends and live a little.

I still feel like that but I don't know if moving out myself is a good idea. I believe its an emotional idea for me because I want to move away from her for hurting me emotionally when I see her. I need to just focus on DB and not worry about what she does. I need to do me. That is what makes me feel better.

[ovrrnbw]

Also wondering if I should go completely dark, ignore questions too or just NC with brief responses to questions.

[Phoenix9]

Also wondering if I should go completely dark, ignore questions too or just NC with brief responses to questions.

Keep it all business, brother. You are not there to comfort her, support her, or do any of that garbage. She does not deserve you because she is not owning up to her screw-ups. You deserve to be treated better!

Don't fall for her traps. She has to own her crap. Anything short of a confession, humility, genuine remorse, and a TRUE willingness to work on the marriage is just BS.

[ovrrnbw]

Crazy W blew my phone up 7 times this morning then pulled her car in the middle of the road to block me from leaving the neighborhood this morning. I also ignored her texts the last 2 days. Got out crying and yelling at me how I owe her money and how I moved some of her stuff. After the third car went by I told her I am not sitting in the road anymore and drove off and called her.

I told her where her stuff was.

She wanted to yell at me saying I owe her more money. I probably don't. She probably owes me money. But now we'll go way back and see who paid what these last 9 months.

She complained that it's not fair that she doesn't get to be at the house. I didn't say it but she left, and nobody made her. And I don't get to use the nice car she drives that is as expensive as the house. I said that, but that doesn't matter.

I really didn't want to see her. She's a selfish, immature turd. Not