Is love worth the pain? Back to Basics

[SteveLW]

Did hang in there. We guys tend to be doers. So doing nothing goes against our nature.

And it's never too late.

[neffer]

Did, as Steve says, it’s never too late.

Reset button, restart DB, pro-level now.

[Did]

Sorry for typos and if this is out of order. Writing from my phone.

Will do on DB pro level. Gotta do it. Little to no contact. I want the opposite but things are not improving. I need to work on my mental toughness. Maybe this is the way to do it. GAL pull away. She can contact me first. Be brief in response. Detach but still be positive / nice?

Reading DB quotes link Steve commonline and saw that and it really hit home. I have anxiety from all the sht that’s happened. Her being on her phone around me or her getting dressed up and doing make up makes me feel really anxious. Fri night I was over there before D4 school program and she’s getting ready in a thong and bra and I felt almost like I was going to have an anxiety attack. I felt like she was going out with some guy she talks about other guys almost every time we interact. Going to mention that as a boundary in Mc. I will continue to do iC and work on me. I can’t keep doing this back and forth. She has come back 3 times and then I go through stages of grief bs. There have been so many crazy messed up things that have happened in this sitch. And she has told me about all of them in detail. I gotta detach I felt really crazy. Never felt that way before.

Continued... Some guy was texting her while we’re at d4s program and she’s telling me she doesn’t know who it is and responding to this guy cordially just like a friend while I’m next to her. I say I’m sure it is someone you connected with online at some point (before she broke her phone in drunk driving accident) she says yea maybe I don’t remember any numbers with this area code. Then tells me the next day he stopped responding and was mad she doesn’t know who it was. Like I want to know??

So w texts me sat morning I’m really hurting. I’m just in bed crying. Said she went out with her friend and her husband fri night that they picked her up. I say I’m here for you glad you’re safe. She responds I don’t feel safe. I said If you need someone you can come here D4 and I are your family. What should I have said here? I understand things or some type of validation she needs help!! I’m ready to run for the fences and take a month apart.

Says she Had 3 vodka drinks and was hungover throwing up the next day. I said I can’t keep rescuing you. I did not go to her, she was supposed to have D4 last night. Instead she came over and we watched a movie with D4. NGS... but maybe a step in the right direction making her come to me and not going to rescue. Probably not close to good enough. Should I have let her be alone and feel shitty?? I suppose so.

We still have MC tomorrow. Really all I want to do is go over what’s happened. And say I cant keep doing this you need to be on this couch as much as me. Let’s own our story we’ve hurt each other. Instead of feeling guilt or regret how about we work on detaching from codepencies and forgive ourselves and each other.

W says I’m so far ahead of her on my personal growth. I think it’s only because I’ve done a lot of therapy. Each of
us needs to own our story. . Express my desire to each do our individual work. I’d like nothing more than to have a happy w and D4 in my life on a day to day basis but I’m hearing the same things from you for months and I have to try to move forward with my life. Not necessarily this exact words. But something has to be said. This sht is not ok.

[Ginger1]

Oh mY DID. I don't have time to nicely break down your post and reply but you contradicted yourself so many times, I lost count.

1st- this is not DBing even remotely.

2- you rescued her like 10 time sin this story. Telling her you are always there for her because you are her family?? So she can can play the woah is me card while she texts other men and you could be her knight in shining armor? She knows she's got you and she can do whatever she wants.

3- you totally rescued her when she drank too much. Just because she came to you, you bailed her out ofher situation and included her. If you were concerned to have D4 around her hungover, you should have just taken D4, and not have had family movie time.

4- for the love of God, please stop trying to express your desire for her to work on herself.

Nothing has to be said. You are sitting here saying you need to say something because "this sh!t is not oK" but your actions show her it is! Your words are empty because your actions show her she can do what she would like and use you for comfort and to rescue her.

The last thing you two need is marriage counseling. And the last thing you need to do is tell her she needs therapy. Work on yourself, go dark, quit engaging and being this guy who comes to her aid. She's a big girl, let her deal.

If you want to move forward with your life, then move forward with your life. This is something you do regardless of her.

I will reiterate. absolutely nothing needs to be said. They only need to be acted on.

[SteveLW]

Oh mY DID. I don't have time to nicely break down your post and reply but you contradicted yourself so many times, I lost count.

1st- this is not DBing even remotely.

2- you rescued her like 10 time sin this story. Telling her you are always there for her because you are her family?? So she can can play the woah is me card while she texts other men and you could be her knight in shining armor? She knows she's got you and she can do whatever she wants.

3- you totally rescued her when she drank too much. Just because she came to you, you bailed her out ofher situation and included her. If you were concerned to have D4 around her hungover, you should have just taken D4, and not have had family movie time.

4- for the love of God, please stop trying to express your desire for her to work on herself.

Nothing has to be said. You are sitting here saying you need to say something because "this sh!t is not oK" but your actions show her it is! Your words are empty because your actions show her she can do what she would like and use you for comfort and to rescue her.

The last thing you two need is marriage counseling. And the last thing you need to do is tell her she needs therapy. Work on yourself, go dark, quit engaging and being this guy who comes to her aid. She's a big girl, let her deal.

If you want to move forward with your life, then move forward with your life. This is something you do regardless of her.

I will reiterate. absolutely nothing needs to be said. They only need to be acted on.

BAM. head shots of all head shots. And spot on I might add.

And to be clear:

The last thing you two need is marriage counseling. And the last thing you need to do is tell her she needs therapy. Work on yourself, go dark, quit engaging and being this guy who comes to her aid. She's a big girl, let her deal.

If you want to move forward with your life, then move forward with your life. This is something you do regardless of her.

I will reiterate. absolutely nothing needs to be said. They only need to be acted on.

This means: DO NOT TELL HER YOU ARE GOING DARK. DO NOT TELL HER YOU ARE NOT DOING MC ANYMORE. DO NOT TELL HER YOU ARE GOING TO STOP ENGAGING. DO NOT TELL HER YOU ARE MOVING ON WITH YOUR LIFE.

Just do it!

[Yail]

She's a big girl, let her deal.

I'm going to second Ginger1 here.

The thing about DBing is that so many times we treat our W or H as if they are not whole people. It's true that they are in crisis, and often times NOT acting in a healthy way. But they are still full people into themselves, and despite their own crisis and poor choices they NEED to stand on their own two feet. They NEED to be seen as a person that is responsible for their own actions. They need to know that they can, and they need us to trust them to learn how.

Every time we go in to rescue them we send them the message, "You are not a whole person worthy of your own independent thoughts and actions. I would like to be sure I have the power here, so I will correct you every time you are wrong. My opinion is more important than yours, so I'll tell you how to be. You are not worthy of having your own time/space/thoughts/emotions."

Do you want to be with a person that knows their value and can be a full partner, or do you want to be with someone you control?

NONE of us came into this world knowing how to navigate what life throws at us. We should all be constantly learning. It's not like we turn 18 and know how to be perfect adults. We all have to learn that. You need to learn how to let her go in this situation, and SHE needs to learn how to stand on her own two feet. I vote you give her that chance.

[ovrrnbw]

Reading DB quotes link Steve commonline and saw that and it really hit home. I have anxiety from all the sht that’s happened. Her being on her phone around me or her getting dressed up and doing make up makes me feel really anxious. Fri night I was over there before D4 school program and she’s getting ready in a thong and bra and I felt almost like I was going to have an anxiety attack. I felt like she was going out with some guy she talks about other guys almost every time we interact. Going to mention that as a boundary in Mc. I will continue to do iC and work on me. I can’t keep doing this back and forth. She has come back 3 times and then I go through stages of grief bs. There have been so many crazy messed up things that have happened in this sitch. And she has told me about all of them in detail. I gotta detach I felt really crazy. Never felt that way before.

Quit playing her games, find a way to avoid or step out in this situation. That's right, the ups and downs SHE goes through need to be her experience, and you need to not be a part of it.

Continued... Some guy was texting her while we’re at d4s program and she’s telling me she doesn’t know who it is and responding to this guy cordially just like a friend while I’m next to her. I say I’m sure it is someone you connected with online at some point (before she broke her phone in drunk driving accident) she says yea maybe I don’t remember any numbers with this area code. Then tells me the next day he stopped responding and was mad she doesn’t know who it was. Like I want to know??

She's playing games, you don't need to play them. Don't be a part of her games. How do you even get to this conversation the next day? Don't have that conversation.

So w texts me sat morning I’m really hurting. I’m just in bed crying. Said she went out with her friend and her husband fri night that they picked her up. I say I’m here for you glad you’re safe. She responds I don’t feel safe. I said If you need someone you can come here D4 and I are your family. What should I have said here? I understand things or some type of validation she needs help!! I’m ready to run for the fences and take a month apart.

Did she ask you a question? No. So don't respond. If she says that in person you validate. That's it. Your W doesn't want you, so why are you "there for her"? If she says she doesn't feel safe tell her to call the police. She fired you as husband, so let her feel the consequence of her choice.

Says she Had 3 vodka drinks and was hungover throwing up the next day. I said I can’t keep rescuing you. I did not go to her, she was supposed to have D4 last night. Instead she came over and we watched a movie with D4. NGS... but maybe a step in the right direction making her come to me and not going to rescue. Probably not close to good enough. Should I have let her be alone and feel shitty?? I suppose so.

How does this conversation even start? If she texts you that she is hungover, you don't respond. It's not a question. Let her chase you, make her commit to you, and you need to feel it in every bone in your body and then see it in the flesh before you ever believe it for a second.

We still have MC tomorrow. Really all I want to do is go over what’s happened. And say I cant keep doing this you need to be on this couch as much as me. Let’s own our story we’ve hurt each other. Instead of feeling guilt or regret how about we work on detaching from codepencies and forgive ourselves and each other.

Just go and listen to her, validate what she says. She doesn't give a $h!t about you, her actions say it. Your W doesn't want to own her story, she's not ready, she may never be ready. So let her go so she can go through her "journey".

That said, you're a good guy Did. Keep your head up, keep working, keep getting better!

[Did]

Therapist says we aren’t compatible very rarely does she say you’re done but she says there is too much damage. W says she can’t be herself around and me and that she can’t be herself around her family. Or anyone she really cares about. Basically agreed it’s over and to divorce.

I still feel like if her self worth was higher we could work. On the ride home w says she saw a therapist two weeks ago. And that she is one of the most emotionally centered people therapist has seen but so much trauma and damage. Says victim of abuse in marriage. She’s not in a place to be in a relationship or give.

Also said a narcissist will never admit it or work on it. And that I’m beating the odds.

I’ve made so many mistakes. Us being together two months ago made us both move backwards in our progress. She told me she wasn’t ready. I should of listened.

Is it even worth going dark and DB and LRT. I see no hope. I wish there was more I could do. Or just agree to see mediator and D.

Feeling empty and hollow. Thanks for the support. I should have been a better listener to you guys and stronger.

[Ginger1]

It's worth going dark for your own emotional stability.

[neffer]

You can’t be orbiting around W. You have your own life and you have a daughter. Let her go Did. We have told you this many many times. Let her go and free yourself. It’s up to you now. There’s not much we can say that we haven’t told you before.

It’s up to you

(((Hugs)))