Is love worth the pain? Back to Basics

[SteveLW]

You still put way too much stock in what she says.

[Did]

Do not believe what she says. X10

W sent me a pic of D4 after she made a gingerbread house super cute. And D4 looks so old. I want to double tap to love the picture and / or say - she looks so old

Also sent me a pic of an article showing stock market losing money. I had mentioned I thought stocks were going to go down and I was concerned about $ her parents had for D4 and money my parents gave for their retirement. If we were on different terms I’d mention my investment in medical marijuana stock is up 25% but obviously not going to say that.

No response to either?

[neffer]

Did, read again Cadet first post. Then the Go Dark page.

No need to answer any of these. Only messages concerning D4 safety.

GO DARK!

[ovrrnbw]

Did, have you ever had girlfriends before your W? After a breakup, did any come sniffing around? Treat your W like an ex-gf. Unless your W is knocking your door down to recommit to the marriage, you treat her like an ex-gf you don't want back. This doesn't require emotions, but just the mindset of "Hey, I'm moved on, we're broken up, I can't help you with everything but I wish you the best."

If you continue MC, just go and listen. Read the validation thread before you see your W every time. Focus on listening to her. When she asks for help, you can't be there for her because she doesn't want you. That's her choice, and until she makes it crystal clear that she chooses the MR, you don't need to treat as if she is still your W.

[Did]

When she asks to FaceTime with D4? Just texted me do you want to FaceTime. Just ignore her ?

[SteveLW]

No, let her FT with D4. Just don't participate yourself. Let her talk to D4 from start to finish. If she asks to talk to you make an excuse and hang up.

[ovrrnbw]

Exactly, don't be mean to her Did, just be indifferent. She'll always be the mother of your daughter

[AnotherStander]

Yes, the candles were for D4 and nothing romantic. It's honestly nice of her to try to let D4 have a tradition with me. But Im supposed to be going dark, right? Thats what I thought when I said no thanks. Im unsure if I should do what I feel is right because that goes against the idea of DBing.

You can’t well and truly go dark when you have a kid together. There’s got to be a certain level of interaction. You can go “dim” which basically means to limit contact to things to do with your kid and avoid your W otherwise. Keep in mind that going dim/ dark is not a technique to bring your W back, a lot of people misunderstand that point. It is strictly to help people detach when they are otherwise struggling with that.

I guess if its for D4 do it if I'm able... even if it makes me more available? Like facetiming in the morning etc... And treat W like a friendly neighbor... dont pursue or reach out to her at all.

I’m not sure what your visitation schedule is, if you see D every few days then the Facetiming may not be necessary. If you see her every other week then you probably want to FT once or twice on your “off weeks”. If that’s the case, then set up a schedule with your W for days and times you will FT with D (and do the same for her FT’ing D on your weeks) and try and stick to the schedule. No chit chat with W during FT. Make sure you’re not FT’ing D as an excuse to interact with W.

I'm wondering what I say if she asks about mediation / divorce - when do you want to do it etc. Just say you can do it when you're ready?

Yeah, leave that in her court. Don’t do anything to help, but don’t do anything to block it either. If she asks you then just tell her whenever she has the papers ready to let you know and you will review them.

in MC she got angry denied inviting me over to rub her neck, literally said it never happened when the MC said she sends mixed signals... I found the text from 11/17 which said will you bring advil and come rub my neck....

Why did you bring this up in MC?? Just LISTEN and VALIDATE. You shouldn’t be going to MC at all but if you go then let it be all about W. Also do not dig up texts or whatever to prove her wrong. That is not going to help your case any, it’ll just make her angry and resentful. Just let go of that kind of stuff. Even in a happy R you have to let go of stuff like that, you know the old saying “would you rather be right or happily married?” You don’t get it both ways.

After MC she said that she knows how unhealthy her decisions have been and thats the result of abuse.

Does she mean abuse from you or the abuse from her childhood? If from you, what is she referring to?

[Did]

So she has D4 this morning and facetimed me, we usually dont talk to each other much. Or at least arent in the screen might throw something in there like make sure you bring extra cold clothes or bathing suit for her swim lesson etc.

Yea I F'd up in MC big time. After that is when I reiterated I would listen to you all more. I talked about the trauma of the last 1.5 years. I took responsibility for starting this spiral but tried to say you've been through so much trauma anyone would be affected. Talked about us getting healthier and seeing where we were at that point. I should of listened to you and DB just let her talk and validated. It got worse for sure and she was extremely angry and defensive.

Detaching is really what I want to let go. When I dont focus on her things get better.

Friday I had this flushed heat reaction thing when I saw her getting all dolled up for D4's program at school. It was this awful anxious feeling. So no I am not detached at all.

In regard to abuse she says it was emotional abuse and a long term thing. Whether I agree or not thats her truth. I don't disagree I just believe it was me being emotionally unintelligent and battling my own unhealthy patterns leading to depression and emotionally being up and down. She was tired of me being down and called me a dark cloud. I didn't yell at her or call her names but I wasn't able to connect and be intimate the way I wish I could have. I do have more of these skills now. She also saw those skills when we reconnected two months ago. Anyway, she gave and gave until she had no more to give and I didnt give enough back. I worked and built businesses and supported us. I'd do almost anything to change that but obviously its the past and outside my control.

So just dropping the rope detaching and letting go... whats meant to be will be. Probably divorce but trying to do LRT. Thanks

[Did]

Having trouble finding this book any advice on where to get it?
David Cunningham: THE Mans Guide to Great Relationships and Marriage