Yeah...even though I have stopped consciously trying to nice my way in, I still do things that are considered nice, even if it is just by coincidence that she would benefit from what I did (she eats my food that I cook, extra soda, etc.). I don't go out of my way to help her. I stopped doing that. If that I am doing is still considered cake-eating and nice, how would I go about not doing that without sounding callous and vindictive?
Some of this comes with the territory when living together under the same roof. If you were cooking "for" her, or if you were serving her, that would be different. If you are doing something for her, hoping for approval, appreciation, earn a brownie point, or even a thank-you from her...….then you are slipping over into the "nice-guy" lane. Don't get me wrong here. If you carry a cup of coffee to her, she should appreciate it and thank you, but if she takes you for granted and/or if she has developed a sense of entitlement....there's a chance she won't appreciate it or even thank you. You are not going to score brownie points by doing things for her, not as long as she is wayward.
I think the mentality of the nice guy is that he feels if he is nice enough, does something for his W, accommodates her, lets her have her way or call the shots all the time......that this will make her happy and pleased with him, thus earning him favor with her, which he wants more than anything. When he doesn't get the results he wanted, he feels resentment, and he tries harder to be more accommodating. He wants approval. He's like the little boy who takes an apple to his teacher everyday. Sure, she may be his favorite teacher, but he's hoping he will win her think favorably of him.....so he gives her an apple. This may not be the best example, but maybe it will do.
When a man has NGS, I think he interacts this way with everyone. He wants to be accepted into a group or by an individual, so he tries to earn their approval. I suppose all of try to be on our best behavior when we want to be liked by another person, but the NGS goes beyond it. He tries to accommodate the other person(s), and expects something in return. I get frustrated sometimes when I read a post by a nice guy who is trying to convince us he does xxx for himself or the kids...…..and it's so obvious he is doing it to win favor with his WW. It's difficult for him to see it himself, I suppose.
I also find many men who struggle to find the healthy spot. They tend to go to the far opposite of a nice guy and act like a jerk or worse. They think they have to act mad, cold. and rude. It is not necessary to demonstrate negative actions, just b/c he wants to stop accommodating or win favor with someone else. If a man does not have acceptance or approval, it should not make him a jerk as the result of it. He does not have to be vindictive to those who rejected or ignored him. He just needs to stop trying to get their approval.
Last edited by sandi2; 12/08/1809:34 PM.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Some of this comes with the territory when living together under the same roof. If you were cooking "for" her, or if you were serving her, that would be different. If you are doing something for her, hoping for approval, appreciation, earn a brownie point, or even a thank-you from her...….then you are slipping over into the "nice-guy" lane. Don't get me wrong here. If you carry a cup of coffee to her, she should appreciate it and thank you, but if she takes you for granted and/or if she has developed a sense of entitlement....there's a chance she won't appreciate it or even thank you. You are not going to score brownie points by doing things for her, not as long as she is wayward.
I think the mentality of the nice guy is that he feels if he is nice enough, does something for his W, accommodates her, lets her have her way or call the shots all the time......that this will make her happy and pleased with him, thus earning him favor with her, which he wants more than anything. When he doesn't get the results he wanted, he feels resentment, and he tries harder to be more accommodating. He wants approval. He's like the little boy who takes an apple to his teacher everyday. Sure, she may be his favorite teacher, but he's hoping he will win her think favorably of him.....so he gives her an apple. This may not be the best example, but maybe it will do.
When a man has NGS, I think he interacts this way with everyone. He wants to be accepted into a group or by an individual, so he tries to earn their approval. I suppose all of try to be on our best behavior when we want to be liked by another person, but the NGS goes beyond it. He tries to accommodate the other person(s), and expects something in return. I get frustrated sometimes when I read a post by a nice guy who is trying to convince us he does xxx for himself or the kids...…..and it's so obvious he is doing it to win favor with his WW. It's difficult for him to see it himself, I suppose.
This stems from my FOO and the resulting damage it has culminated to. I am very happy that I was finally able to determine what I have (Steve85 actually pointed it out to me.) and start addressing it.
I am also finally understanding why physical distance is so important in this process. Until we were physically S, I was going out of my way to nice my way back to her. All the while she was doing OM. I am getting it.
Originally Posted by sandi2
I also find many men who struggle to find the healthy spot. They tend to go to the far opposite of a nice guy and act like a jerk or worse. They think they have to act mad, cold. and rude.
I am struggling with the items in bold. Anger has been my primary emotion these last two months. Anger and vindictiveness. I am not acting like I'm doing a 180 on my NGS, but more out of an increasing realization and clarity of what she has put me through. She planned this. She got her way. She "won". And now I want her to feel the consequences.
I had no pity for the hell she went through the last week. Still don't. In my opinion it was a microcosm of the emotional hell she put me through the last 11 months.
I want to forgive, but she is going to have to earn it back. And I intend on making her work hard for it.
I just came back from lifting at the gym. I went despite the bad weather and I am feeling better. Also talking to my mom has been helping me a lot. Ironically out of all the folks I have been opening up to, my conservative mother is the one who has been the kindest source of comfort these last 5 months. She gives me hopeful prayers and positive reinforcement. But she also stresses to me that W has her own journey and problems to deal with. My priority is myself, D4, my job, and my spiritual connection with God.
I had my NGS support group today. Discussed the replies that burned posted and how I realized that addressing my NGS is going to take a lot more work than I realize. They told me that the group is not a place where I should act that I have the right answers to their questions. I also know that the same concept goes for you folks here. Towards the end of the meeting, another guy with NGS discussed the covert contract issue of NGS. That rang close to me because I am notorious for enacting that. I am starting to be more aware when I get into my NGS tendencies, but I need to continue these sessions to address this.
Minimal interaction with W. When I saw her this morning, her eyes were a little red. Either she was crying, high, or tired. I...don't care. I ended conversations quickly with her.
Looking forward to my photo session this coming weekend, if it holds. We'll see.
Pain, the thing I want you to know is that only you can control you attitude and mindset. You can make yourself happy. You don't have to like everything in your life/sitch, but you don't have to let it keep you down. Attitude is contagious and mindset is everything. Choose to be positive and happy.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I am struggling with the items in bold. Anger has been my primary emotion these last two months. Anger and vindictiveness.
Forgiveness is key. Forgiving is not forgetting.
Lookup "radical forgiveness" by colin tipping
I bought that book about a month ago. Haven't opened it. I would be more than willing to read it had my W decided that she wanted to, at the very least, try to make our M work. Now that it's pretty clear she doesn't, forgiving her isn't high on my priority list. I don't know if that's the right mindset to have right now, but I don't really care. That's how I feel and I don't think I need to be at the stage where I should forgive her for the turmoil and devastation she has caused. Destroying 2 friendships with 2 of my best friends and then now destroying my family in the path of her destructive storm doesn't scream forgiveness for me yet. Maybe someday I will, but now is not the time. I want to put all my focus and efforts on detaching, moving on and healing myself. What she has put me through seems unforgivable right now. But I know feelings are fleeting and that over time, I might decide differently.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
I went to another sex education class. This one was about spanking. It was a good class because I understood how to properly perform with consent, careful control, and communication.
Very important. there is a book called "She comes first" that I found helpful. "Women are like crock-pots, men are like microwaves" is one of the metaphors I like. It takes more time to get a woman turned on. IE foreplay and flirting is important.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Very quiet day today. No contact from W, about anything. I finally had to get a hold of her because I wanted to read a bedtime story to D4. W told me that D4 is not ready for bed yet and that she will call later. I said ok. W told me she was in the bath. I said ok and we hung up.
30 minutes later D4 calls me, I read her story, and D4 hangs up. So W is doing the same thing I do at bedtime. Have her talk to D4, hang up.
The chase and sniffing is slowing down. I care a little but it is not affecting me as much as it would before. Maybe that means I'm detaching.
Sorry, to further elaborate the bath part. W told me she could not talk much and apologized because she was in the bath. My plan was not to talk anyway, so I said “ok” and hung up.
A coworker told me that I am too vague sometimes and need to provide better details. The same apparently applies here.
