A familiar story with questions EIGHT

[sandi2]

Anyway, we walked around the mall and enjoyed each other's company. W seems like Quality Time is her Love Language. I have read the book, it was after BD#1 and she said she did too. When she took the quiz she couldn't answer the questions. I helped her. It was kind of a mess because I brought up that she couldn't answer the questions in MC. That was 5 years ago.

My H is much the same way when it comes to answering questions like that. In fact, I can't get him to participate in any type of "quiz". I think that's one reason he would not agree to attend MC, b/c he says he doesn't know how to talk about his feelings, etc. It was always very frustrating to me, b/c I would end up doing all the talking, and he would sit there and make no response whatsoever. If I said nothing.....then it was complete silence.

I also want to point out, for the benefit of all here, that although most of us don't GAL enough and Detach, more of the same isn't always the answer. Also, we all don't have NGS.

You are correct, every man on the board does not have NGS. Based on my observations the past 11 1/2 years on the board (to date) and cases IRL, when there is a wayward W, the chances of her having a H with NGS is extremely high. On the other hand, where there is a WAW, the chances her H has NGS is much lower. I don't think it is necessarily 100% either way. I do believe men with NGS need to become educated about it, for their sake and the sake of their future relationships...….and just day to day interaction with people.

[RR17]

All women are complicated to men. I suggest you not look for excuses to hug her, until she gets more comfortable with your other non-sexual touches. I also suggest you not quiz her about having whether or not she has a problem with you touching her in some manner. I'd try to explain, but it's complicated. wink Just judge by her body language, and if she tenses or pulls away.....then don't try again for a while. I know I continue to tell you, but please don't over kill by trying to do too much too soon. You have to ease into this.

Subscribing to the notion of "Don't overdo it". I have been looking for the right opportunity to initiate casual non-sexual touch. This has been difficult. The first couple of Touches are bound to cause attention and I want them to be natural. That and I have been under the weather the last few days. But I am ready to seek the right opportunity. Free of expectation. Unattached to her response.
I will report back as to my experience.

[AnotherStander]

Subscribing to the notion of "Don't overdo it". I have been looking for the right opportunity to initiate casual non-sexual touch. This has been difficult. The first couple of Touches are bound to cause attention and I want them to be natural.

I took a communications class years ago and they talked about the power of touching someone, and talked about the best areas to touch casually to make someone feel more comfortable with you without feeling threatened. The number one spot was the shoulder/ upper back. So perhaps if she is showing you something on a phone, computer or magazine you touch her shoulder while looking at it over her shoulder, that sort of thing. Number two spot was elbow, they were suggesting if you shake hands you reach out with your other hand and lightly touch/grasp their elbow. Can also work if you are talking to someone casually, reach out and touch their elbow for emphasis like "oh and get this...". Touching hands is also OK as long as it's not a hand-holding thing, but done more for emphasis similar to touching the elbow. No face or neck touching, that's getting too personal. Same with lower back, that is reserved for someone you are intimate with. Obviously anything below the waist is off limits.

[RR17]

Thanks AS. All good points. The waist or small of the back seem like easy targets but I can see how it could be too forward at this point.

I am reminded that W has felt my forehead twice in that last two days to see if I have a fever.

[sandi2]

I have been looking for the right opportunity to initiate casual non-sexual touch. This has been difficult. The first couple of Touches are bound to cause attention and I want them to be natural.

Don't over think the non-sexual touching, b/c it should be a natural human response.

Also, don't put your hand on her....and leave it there while you examine her facial expression or reaction. Know what I mean? You simply touch her and move on. Don't draw attention to it. If you've not touched her since we suggested the non-sexual touching...…..then you are over thinking it. What are you waiting on? Looking for the right opportunity sounds like you are making it too complicated.

How long has it been since you patted her back or touched her shoulder? I'm thinking it must have been a while, if you are looking for an opportunity.

When she's standing at the kitchen counter/stove preparing dinner, do you ever walk up and look over her shoulder and ask what's for supper, or what is she making? That's a perfect time to touch her. Most anytime you walk and stand by her, or pass by her, you can give a light touch.

When you were walking around in the mall, there wasn't at least once that you could have touched her?

So, tell me how you two tell each other goodbye when you leave for work?

Have you been playing, teasing a little, flirting just a bit, laughing, and generally being fun for her to be around you?

Sorry to hear you've been somewhat under the weather. When she feels of your forehead, just lightly pat her arm. It's just a way to show you appreciate her caring that you might have a fever. No words, just a light tough.

Does she call you by a pet name? Do you have a pet name for her, and are you currently using it?

[RR17]

Have you been playing, teasing a little, flirting just a bit, laughing, and generally being fun for her to be around you?

Yes! And one thing that I find revealing, although I'm not sure what it reveals is W's occasional use of self-deprecating humor. This from a woman that struggled with taking responsibility. Who was usually overly defensive.
But yes we do those things.

Don't over think the non-sexual touching, b/c it should be a natural human response.

I haven't really thought about it too much. I realize that it is not a temp-take opportunity. I've just been busy and sick. I did try these touches a month or so back and wasn't consistent and when I Over-Hugged and W said it made her feel a bit uneasy I stopped all touch. There has been one appropriate hug since that I shared here.

So, tell me how you two tell each other goodbye when you leave for work?

I have a home office and she comes up and says she is leaving and we discuss any business and tell each other to have a good day. No pet name. I used to call her Sweetie but stopped after BD#2. If she ever had one for me, I don't remember. Maybe "Pappy" it's been a long time.

I will initiate soon and not temp-take yet report back.

[LoneWlf]

RR- you have been given some good advice here. Nothing more for me to add except that I wish you all the best. Keep strong! Blessings!

[RR17]

Catching up after being sick for a week. First time in several years. Nothing serious but just a nagging respiratory cold. A few times I traveled out only to be reminded that the illness was not done. Fascinating stuff, right?

W was attentive. She didn't wait on me hand and foot, but she is not that kind. Several times she asked me what she could do for me. There was an honest concern in her voice. I know what she leaks out when she is just asking out of obligation. This was not the case.

We went to my company Christmas party and because of my condition stayed the minimum amount of time. I used the opportunity to squeeze in a few of the HSPTs (none sexual physical touches). W seemed eager to go to this party which was different from the HS reunion that we blew off earlier this fall. This may be due to the fact that W knows more people at my company party.

So here is where I confess.
We had our picture taken several times at the party and I shared the highlights on social media. (see where this is going?) Silly photo booth type pictures where you use props and hats to make silly looks. My audience made their typical mixture of complementary and sarcastic remarks. W had a male friend from the past comment "What a beautiful elf". Okay, I know I posted the picture. The comment is tame and even "to be expected". Still, I take note. A backstory for those that don't know or remember. 5 years ago it was a posted picture of my W that led to her EA. It starts with a compliment and transgresses into pictures and proposed liaisons etc..
So it hit a nerve. I acknowledged it and kept it in a healthy perspective. No fault of hers. (my nature is one of an External Locus, meaning I don't usually fall victim to circumstance. In fact, I tend to take personal responsibility for stuff I really never had control over. The discovery of this EA 5 years ago has had a profound and lasting scar on my being like nothing I have ever experienced in my life. I hate the fact that 5 years later stupid triggers still have any effect)
Next day W had offered to help me generate an invoice for some billing I needed to submit. Morning comes and she is rushing out the door. I asked why so early and she said she was going to her company warehouse to check on an order. I reminder W that she had agreed to help with the invoice. She said ok I can do it real fast before I go. Well, it was not a "real fast" task. If it was I wouldn't need the help. So things start to escalate. I ask "are you even really going where you say". I know, I know.
W in an honest sounding voice explain more about why she needs to go to the warehouse. I listen. I then apologize for accusing her of possibly lying. I explained about the picture and how it had an effect on me and that I didn't like to be that way. I knew that it was not because of anything that W did. W explained that she saw the comment and thought it might have some effect. She explained the context of their friendship (he grew up a few streets over) and as nondefensive as possible how there was nothing. It all seemed very sincere and yes, remorseful. Now understand W is now delayed from her early start to work. Typically an uncomfortable discussion like this would have her racing out the door. That was not the case this time. W did listen to me explain that I did not like to be this way and how I hated being drawn back to this extremely painful time. No defensive excuses from W. No dismissive running away. W was validating me.

I kept it brief because I felt heard.

I also, against the best advice on this great board, told her in the most non-threatening way I could, that I had never in my adult life gone so long without working toward a goal. I said that I thought that I would be changing this sometime in the next year. W validated and seemed to agree. She said that she was taking things day by day and had no plans on working her way out the door. No mention of anything that is still not as she would like it. I stopped just short of saying that I didn't intend to stay in a sexless marriage. W then asked if she could give me a hug. I replied as long as it didn't make her feel uneasy. She said she would not have initiated if she felt it would.

Overall I think it was a very positive R talk. It was not rehearsed or even intended. Both spoke as well as listened. W showed concern and remorse. I felt heard and didn't need to over explain my feelings.

[neffer]

Little steps forward is moving forward RR. It seems you both are taking about the sitch with less pressure, that´s good imho.

Keep walking you both.

[RR17]

It was a different talk for sure. Thanks neffer