[neffer]

Steve’s sugestion fits but, as LH says, you have to learn to say NO when it applies. Don’t fear to say NO. Stand for yourself. We all have problems with that issue and it’s one of the facts that brings us to the place where we actually are. No fear to say NO.

[Wanted1]

I'm beginning to wonder if "going dark" is at a detriment to me in my situation. I started reading the Going Dark thread and it states in there that in some instances it doesn't help.

Now, I've only been at it probably 4 days or so, which isn't that long, I know. But, after reading the thread last night I'm a little concerned that my W will think "well, same old story, different verse. He's shutting down and giving me the silent treatment!" A part of me feels like I don't care what she thinks at this point. She told me last week she's moving out and so why do I care what she thinks now?! But, I'd be lying if I didn't admit I still want to R. I wouldn't be here anymore if I didn't, I guess. What I'm trying to say is, if going dark is just going to expedite the process than I'm not sure I want to continue. However, what else can I really do? I surely don't want to be all warm and fuzzy to someone who has told me she doesn't want to live with me and our kids anymore. Do I just give it more time and continue it and let the chips fall where they may? If she thinks its just "me being me, again" then I just have accept it?

Last night, I took a very active role in the kids routine. I had been more active ever since BD but last night I bumped it up a notch. D5 needed to bring something to school that started with the letter S (Kindergarten). D5, D7 and W were in their room trying to find something when I asked D5 if she wanted to take some suckers for the whole class. She got all excited and ran into the kitchen where I was counting out how many she needed to take. Earlier, I had folded some laundry. Up until the last few days, I would fold all the laundry, even Ws. Now, I'm just leaving Ws clothes in the basket for her to deal with. She grabbed the clothes and took them downstairs to where she's been staying. She was down there for a little while and during that time, I got the kids' teeth brushed and started reading some books to D5 and D7. When W came back up, it looked like she had been crying. Water off a duck's back. When we finished reading the books, W came in to tuck the girls in and say prayers. We've all be saying bedtime prayers together for quite a while now. After we got done, D5 asked W, "what's wrong, Mommy?" She was crying again. I left the room to get S3 into his bed. Night ended as it normally has been, with W retreating downstairs and me to the MBR. No communication at all.

It's almost like W is going dark on me too! She has sent me a few texts the past few days during the morning about kid stuff. I reply to the questions but don't reply to anything else. Other than that, she hasn't initiated a F2F conversation with me since I got back from my GAL trip on Sunday. This morning, as she was leaving for her job, I did ask her if her office was open today. She looked at me kind of funny and I told her a lot of the government offices are closed today because of Pres. Bush's funeral. She seemed surprised and said she hadn't heard that it wasn't so they must be. I was pleasant and she seemed pleasant back. Nothing more was said before she left.

Still have no clue what her plans are for moving. Like I said, communication as been very scarce since she told me of her plans a week ago (via text). I'm not bringing it up or asking. I'm doing nothing! Feeling the need to do something in the past obviously wasn't working. Patience is not my thing and that is a massive detriment to me in this type of a situation but I'm trying as hard as I can!

I don't know how I feel about initiating the conversation about her office being open this morning. It goes against my Going Dark technique but I also thought maybe I should initiate a little something just so she didn't think I was reverting back to my old ways. Probably doesn't really matter one way or the other in the long run.

If she would initiate some conversation, I would be pleasant. She just hasn't given me that opportunity yet.

For a second last night, after I went into the bedroom, I kind of felt sorry for her that she was crying. Definitely a sign I'm still too attached. However, it only lasted for a second and I didn't dwell on it any longer. I reminded myself that this is all her doing. She wants to move out. If the crying was because she is planning on moving very soon and that was one of the last times she will get to experience the bedtime routine with them or if it was a little crack starting to show in her facade, I don't know. If I had to guess, it's probably the former. But, I'm done trying to read minds. I just need to be patient, continue to do nothing and see what happens, I suppose. Going Dark is definitely tricky and uncomfortable for me. But, as the thread on it suggests, doing what feels uncomfortable is probably the right thing to do. I'm just not sure, given the history of our M and our poor communication, the both of us, it is beneficial to me.

[Davide]

EVERYONE feels like they are doing it wrong when they go dark. That is completely normal. Stay the course. Focus on yourself.

[burned]

It's uncomfortable because it's the opposite: the opposite of what your emotions are telling you ("Stay close, I love her"), and the opposite of what your rational mind is telling you to do ("Don't be distant like you used to be").

Both of those things no longer apply after BD. New game, new rules.

It's counterintuitive. Also scary, unpleasant, lonely at first. Then (2 months later, in my case) you start to feel more and more detached. Her tricks and bait and temp checks don't pull you in as much. You're not faced every day with reminders of what she did or is still doing. You feel more confident about your ability to be "fine either way." And she gets some serious time and space, not just the pretend kind.

In the end you get better at GAL and detachment. She gets a chance to miss you. You build your confidence and hope for the future. Everyone wins. For me, it's something that HAD to happen, or else I would have kept on digging the hole.

So no, it won't improve much, at least not overtly, or not in ways that are immediately obvious. But it will help YOU and in the long run, when YOU feel better, that's one more reason why W might look back.

[SteveLW]

Wanted1, what is the opposite of going dark? Trying to talk to her all the time? How did that tactic work?

Going dark is hard because it is about giving up control. When we initiate conversation we control the conversation. When we try to be around our WAW we control the sitch.

I used this analogy in another thread but what if a friend did or said something that hurt you so you didn't want to be around them anymore. And they immediately responded by trying to force themselves on you. Calling. Texting. showing up at places they know you'll be. How would you feel? Now say instead they just back off and give you time and space? Eventually you might miss them and actually want to be friends again, even if at first you want to "go dark" on them.

It is the same way with a WAW. "I want out. ILYBIANILWY. I need time and space." The opposite of giving them time and space is to smother them. And trust me, even the smallest pursuit and pressure feels like smothering.

So your choices are to hang back and be there if and when she comes to you. Or to force yourself on her. We all question the first one, but it is the only one with an actual chance of success.

[AnotherStander]

I'm beginning to wonder if "going dark" is at a detriment to me in my situation. I started reading the Going Dark thread and it states in there that in some instances it doesn't help.

Believe me, EVERYONE thinks that. "If she complained that I was distant in the M, then isn't going dark 'more of the same?'" Here's the thing, when you go dark you are giving her EXACTLY what she wants. If you were distant in the M then you should have fixed that a long time ago, once she became a WAS she no longer wanted you to fix it, she just wants to be done with you. She wants you out of her life. Going dark in and of itself is not going to bring her back. But it will help you detach and it will give her the time and space she needs to sort through things.

By the way, since you have kids and live together there really is no going "dark" in your situation. You can go "dim" but you need to maintain a certain level of contact for the kids and because you are still under the same roof.

Now, I've only been at it probably 4 days or so, which isn't that long, I know.

It is a drop in the ocean. Most people make the mistake of doing it a few days or week before declaring "it didn't work" and breaking into pursuit mode again. NOTHING works in a few days or weeks, you have many, many months or (more likely) a year or more of this ahead of you.

He's shutting down and giving me the silent treatment!"

Keep in mind that going dim/dark doesn't mean being rude and cold to her. You still want to follow Sandi's rules and be the lighthouse, it just means that you leave her alone.

What I'm trying to say is, if going dark is just going to expedite the process than I'm not sure I want to continue.

Going dim/dark is far more likely to slow down the S and D process than speed it up. When you leave her alone and remove all pressure, she no longer feels the need to push through with D. This is EXACTLY what happened with my ex, once I removed the pressure the D went on hold. I've seen it happen here time and time again. Eventually I was the one that pushed the D through, if I hadn't I don't think she ever would have. I'm not saying we would have reconciled, but I think she would have been content to stay married and live apart indefinitely.

It's almost like W is going dark on me too!

She is, but in her case it's not a "technique", it's because right now she wants nothing to do with you as I mentioned above. Don't sweat it, that's how she feels right now. That may very well change in the future. But for now this is your situation and you've got to deal with it accordingly.

I kind of felt sorry for her that she was crying.

She's not crying because she has any remorse. She's crying because of the "situation" she finds herself in. She's crying because she's hurting and she knows everyone else is too. But make no mistake, she still feels her actions are justified.

[Wanted1]

Yes, after I posted in here, I read on another thread that going dark is more about helping me detach than it is about getting her to come back.

I'll stay the course of going dark. Part of me feels like it's wrong because its incredibly uncomfortable but like I mentioned, what I've felt was the right thing to do throughout this whole process hasn't ended up being the 'right' thing to do in regard to my goal of R.

You are all right. This is what she wants. I'll give that to her. If she tries to use me going dark as more justification for her decision (always searching for the negative aspects as pieces that fit this puzzle she's trying to put together) than it will truly be hypocritical on her part. I won't point it out to her, but maybe it will be another example of how truly messed up she is and I'll start questioning, even more, whether or not I want to put up with it moving forward.

[SteveLW]

I'll give that to her. If she tries to use me going dark as more justification for her decision (always searching for the negative aspects as pieces that fit this puzzle she's trying to put together) than it will truly be hypocritical on her part.

Yes, this is correct. You cannot win with her right now, so don't try. If you smother her she'll tell you that is driving her away. If you give her time and space she will use that against you too. This is why you take the focus off of her. And put it on to yourself.

GAL FOR YOU! 180 FOR YOU! DETACH FOR YOU!

If she takes note and it has positive effects on her....great! If not, you won't care because you've detached. You win either way.

DBing is more about saving you than it is the MR. Sometimes (we debated the percentages all the time here!) the MR is saved in the process.

[ballast]

wanted...listen, learn and do as Stander tells you. he gives you no BS, STRONG, painful, true words and it will burn going down and you will want to fight it, but it is what you need to do FOR YOU!

also as my other great mentor on here Accuray told me, "walk a straight line in the opposite direction" from her. your mind will fight you wanting to "action" and not being in control, but the quicker you come to acceptance of some painful realities, the much better off you will be.

oh yeah and for sure listen to Steve as well! Those are my 3 pillars of foundational wisdom on here! :-)

-B

[Wanted1]

wanted...listen, learn and do as Stander tells you. he gives you no BS, STRONG, painful, true words and it will burn going down and you will want to fight it, but it is what you need to do FOR YOU!

also as my other great mentor on here Accuray told me, "walk a straight line in the opposite direction" from her. your mind will fight you wanting to "action" and not being in control, but the quicker you come to acceptance of some painful realities, the much better off you will be.

oh yeah and for sure listen to Steve as well! Those are my 3 pillars of foundational wisdom on here! :-)

-B

Mine too, man. All 3 of them, as well as LH, are always quick with a response on my thread and it's greatly appreciated. Thank you all for the support. Not just those guys, but from everyone else as well!

I haven't commented much on other people's threads, mainly, because I believe the vets give much better advice than I can. However, I'm going to make it a point to comment in other threads moving forward. More as a show of support than anything else.

I can't express how much appreciation I have for this board and the people on it. Finding it feels like godsend.