IC recommends I talk with her / ask her what, if anything, I could do to help her deal with her anger towards me re: the pregnancy.
To me, it sounds like MR talk / temp-checking, and told him as much.
Is he on to something?
What is it that counselors just want to talk and crap-logic their way out of these situations? It's like they can't admit that the situation is what it is.
Do not say that to her. She wants out, so why would you be going and offering to help her with her anger towards you?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Annoying seeing happily married couples, except: 1) “happily”? W and I went out for a date night 4 days before I discovered that she had been cheating on me for 6 months. Or there’s a selfie of us smiling together back in November, when her PA was already up and running. So how many of those happily married people are about to get BDed? And 2) how many of them are 2nd marriages? And 3) pretty soon that will be us. (I’ll admit that whenever I see a guy with a wedding band I get jealous and think, what does he have that I don’t?)
As for ICs: 1) you don’t HAVE to go with anything they say. Mine isn’t familiar with DB and isn’t pro-M to my knowledge, but obviously not anti-M, and i don’t know if he is religious, and he never asked me if I was or wasn’t. And so forth. And YET, I had already been seeing him before BD (for depression), and the first time I saw him after BD, when I was sobbing in the fetal position, his advice was: kick her out and tell her to call you when she’s ready to work on the marriage, and move on. Sound familiar, like maybe something a few people around here have suggested? Yep. And he repeated that advice week after week because I didn’t listen. Dug myself into a very deep hole, and made it very unlikely that I’ll be able to save my M. And then? After S, he started telling me to forget about her, set her aside, and start to rebuild. Took me too long to listen to that advice, too. The point being, there are good ones out there, which leads to 2) you can BD your IC and find a new one. For the most part they don’t take it personally, for the reason that their success rate depends primarily on two factors: “fit” between IC and client, and quality of the therapeutic relationship. If you don’t get along, neither of you benefit. You end up not changing, and their “treatment success rate” suffers. Then they are less likely to get paid by insurance companies and blah blah blah. Nobody wins.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
What do those guys have that you don’t have? I can totally relate Burned. Whenever I see couples, I ask myself the same question. Answer: a loyal, committed spouse. Unfortunately, people don’t come with warning labels. My H’s would be... Warning: Selfish manchild. Unrealistic idea of relationships. Expects others to make him happy. Conflict avoidant so you will never have a chance to work through anything. He lies as easily as he breathes and bails instead of doing the work. Run, don’t walk. He will only break your heart if you stay. If only...
Annoying seeing happily married couples, except: 1) “happily”? W and I went out for a date night 4 days before I discovered that she had been cheating on me for 6 months. Or there’s a selfie of us smiling together back in November, when her PA was already up and running. So how many of those happily married people are about to get BDed? And 2) how many of them are 2nd marriages? And 3) pretty soon that will be us. (I’ll admit that whenever I see a guy with a wedding band I get jealous and think, what does he have that I don’t?)
Yes, after I wrote that I was thinking the same thing. Half of them probably aren't "happily" married but the constant reminder I've been seeing everywhere that it seems like everyone around me is M is a little depressing. I never noticed wedding bands, etc. up until 2 months ago! Now, that's the first thing I seem to notice. I also understand that that is something I can change. I just need to not focus on that when I'm out and about. Be oblivious to it like I was before!
You are right, probably a 1/4 of them are not their first marriage, too. I hope that we all will be "them" whether its with our current spouse or we find a new one!
Originally Posted by burned
As for ICs: 1) you don’t HAVE to go with anything they say. Mine isn’t familiar with DB and isn’t pro-M to my knowledge, but obviously not anti-M, and i don’t know if he is religious, and he never asked me if I was or wasn’t. And so forth. And YET, I had already been seeing him before BD (for depression), and the first time I saw him after BD, when I was sobbing in the fetal position, his advice was: kick her out and tell her to call you when she’s ready to work on the marriage, and move on. Sound familiar, like maybe something a few people around here have suggested? Yep. And he repeated that advice week after week because I didn’t listen.
My IC seems very similar. She wasn't familiar with MWD when I asked her if she's heard of her and the techniques she teaches. She's never came out and said she's pro-M and I don't think any of them are necessarily anti-M. I was hoping before this all started that we would have access to Catholic ICs but there just aren't any in our area. When we had our joint sessions, I didn't get the feeling that wife's IC is very pro-M, either, which is a little bit disconcerting. However, I think W's IC is more focused on healing my W, individually, with all of the personal issues that she's been carrying so long.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
What do those guys have that you don’t have? I can totally relate Burned. Whenever I see couples, I ask myself the same question. Answer: a loyal, committed spouse. Unfortunately, people don’t come with warning labels. My H’s would be... Warning: Selfish manchild. Unrealistic idea of relationships. Expects others to make him happy. Conflict avoidant so you will never have a chance to work through anything. He lies as easily as he breathes and bails instead of doing the work. Run, don’t walk. He will only break your heart if you stay. If only...
DV, you are spot on! We would be those people if our spouses didn't have such an incessant need to destroy everything good in their lives and decide that when the going gets tough, rather than communicate the issues at hand, go out and make things worse by having As. I've said it numerous times in my thread and other threads, I truly don't believe that my deficiencies, short falls and short comings live up to the level that would require D as an option for most people. Especially without at least trying to work through the issues. I own my part. I understand what I failed at in our R and they are all pretty typical of male characteristics and the general difference between male and female makeups. The problem is, now that I know what I need to do to be better and actively want to be better, my W doesn't want to give me the chance!
My W's warning label would be the biggest scarlet letter that could be sewn on her chest.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
I didn't get the feeling that wife's IC is very pro-M, either
Well, my W's IC (who she started seeing right before the A began) has a side-gig as a certified D coach, so...another reason to be thankful that you're not me.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
I didn't get the feeling that wife's IC is very pro-M, either
Well, my W's IC (who she started seeing right before the A began) has a side-gig as a certified D coach, so...another reason to be thankful that you're not me.
Wow...yes that would concern me more than what I'm dealing with!
Sorry, man!
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
I will consistently maintain (and I know you don’t need to re-hear this, but) if she really is that angry / depressed, she needs to be in front of someone often. I don’t know, man.
Back when things hit the fan in February, I (and looking back this looks like a total mistake) asked W how her IC visits were going, and first visit her IC asks W her thoughts about divorce. Naturally, already-shell-shocked me was put on tilt.
I’m not going to presume the marital status / happiness of the couples I see out there—I’m not trying to dwell on pessimism and will instead try to see the best in others, W included.
I have thought about finding a new IC—we have an appt next week, but wonder if this could be a New Year’s resolution. I don’t think it’s a good idea to ask her about her anger because, despite how much she says I’m to blame, I didn’t break her in this regard, and I can’t fix her.
I know in many regards my sitch is different from most others on here, and I know that my W is not a bad person. She flawed? Yup, but so am I. Ways she could be more attractive, physically and emotionally? Yup, same. But I also am noticing how many attractive women around my age there are, and I know that genuinely good men are hard to find, so in case she even decides to go nuclear on me, I can at least mentally prepare myself for that in that regard. I do see the good in W, see shades of the W and mother she can be, and I do find her physically attractive, but this dynamic (her unhappiness / anger) does damper my attraction to her—I want to be with someone who wants to be with me and be happy about being pregnant and bearing our children.
But I also know I want / need / deserve better. I just don’t need this from her—at all.
Was up grading last night—have a Metric Ton of grading to do before finals week before Christmas. W comes by and tells me she is going to take a shower. I say ‘sure’—I shouldn’t read much into it, probably just a ‘hey, keep an ear out for YS in case he wakes up’ on her part. I’ve learned from being shot down recently to NOT ask if she wants company there, or to do something sexual beforehand. I’m not interested in getting shot down repeatedly, so I’m not asking. Why do this to myself?
I shouldn’t have to beg her for sex—and I am remorseful of the times in the past where she felt like she needed to beg me because I was so tired / busy, but I’ve also tried to make it up. And she is still supposedly angry with me. She wants extra-curricular activities with me? She knows where to find me.
W has been more chatty with me recently; I asked her what she needed help with for making dinner, so I made dinner while she fed YS. She also made a comment about that if I wanted a Nespresso machine, we could probably get one pretty cheap (which is accurate). Before that, she also told me that whatever cleaning she can’t get done tomorrow she will need my help with Monday and Tuesday. At least in some respects she still needs me, I guess.
This coming Saturday YS will be baptized Catholic—my Mom, FIL, and a female friend from grad school (who is YS’ godmother) will be flying in from all points back east. They get to see the kids, and see us. Like everything’s good.
I know no expectations, but man do I crave attention / affection, physical or emotional, from her. While the emotional has been nice the last couple of days, I do want sex. I also know I shouldn’t complain so much when so many partners in this forum have gone much, much longer than the month-ish I’ve gone.
I also tend to get down on things and crave attention / affection when I’m tired and overworked, which has been (and will be) me—have a Metric Ton of grading to get done, before grading period ends next weekend, but I’d like to be done before end of this week to be present to family and friends. I’m sure the late nights and relative lack of sleep from long nights grading don’t help.
But I’ve been giving YS tons of attention and affection—talking with him, carrying him around, singing songs that I’ve made up about and for him. YS is pure gift, even though the pregnancy with him really laid bare the fault lines of our MR.
When this first started back earlier in the winter / spring, I had a student mention in one of my classes something about the ‘7-year itch,’ and it hit me like a ton of bricks that class period (he brought it up completely independent of my scenario—students know nothing, just that we’re married).
And that ‘we’re married’ part W affirmed for OS on the car ride to the grocery this afternoon. He said that W and I are married, and W affirmed that, so there’s that.
Sometimes I wonder if that’s what this is, at least in part.
