A familiar story with questions EIGHT

[sandi2]

I'm glad you talked to her about the trigger. I suspect not knowing exactly where the MR stands, would cause you to be vulnerable to responses about her from other guys. I don't know if your W has tried to educate herself about how the LBH is affected and what she needs to do to help you feel safe in the MR.

I

ask "are you even really going where you say".

Wow! Well, it takes patience from both sides of the street when you are healing from an A. Next time, just tell her something happened that triggered some bad feelings and you need to talk it out.

Anyway, not keeping those feelings pent up and talking about it was the right thing. I have a couple of suggestions. One is to try to bring up the subject without sounding as if you are accusing her of something. B/c if she feels you suspect she's not being honest or is guilty of something...….she may immediately throw up the defensive walls. If she is trying to be good and do the right thing...….then accusatory words could be a trigger for her, too. Know what I mean? Although you have a right to your feelings, she needs encouragement too......if she is, indeed, choosing to do the right thing.

The second suggestion I have is to stick to one subject when you have these types of interaction. In other words, don't bring up the subject of sex, when you've been discussing something else. I think it's best to have a shorter conversation about one topic at a time, rather than going into several additional subjects. Make sense?

[RR17]

Thanks, Sandi, points well taken. Although this was completely unplanned, I'm am all about intentionality. Best to be prepared.

So change seems to be in the air. I'm not reading too much into this because I'm done mindreading, at least for now.

So W informs me that she is making a breakfast casserole for Christmas morning. For many years I have suggested that I make a breakfast casserole and W has poo-pooed the idea. I know this seems petty and trivial but it's kind of worth noting. These type endeavors have happened before when W decides to step out and take a creative chance. Last time it was painting furniture.
I think it means she's happy?

Now get this. She asks me today if I mind if she invites her parents over for Christmas morning. I love my in-laws and said of course. This is very unusual as we plan to go to their house for dinner Christmas night. She also shares that she will be making Mimosa at breakfast. All wild stuff for the W.
She as well as her family are people of ritual. Consistent and predictable. It is usually me that introduces something new and different. Anyway, all I'm saying is that something is different and it doesn't seem bad.

The continual respect and consideration continues.

[neffer]

And it means she has projects. That implies commitment. It´s advisable to have some kind of common projects together. We have wrote some about it, remember? Well, that´s good, right? Keep taking steps forward.

Merry Christmas RR. My best wishes for you and your family.

[RR17]

Neffe I agree.

And we have discussed how the two of us have had common projects recently. I think this is an individual thing. We all know our Ws and I have seen this type of individual creative outburst before. I believe the prudent thing is to be supportive but allow her to do her own thing. Of course, if she wants me to participate I will be available. Time will tell.

[Adam04]

Hey RR,

Read your sitch and jumped to the back threads to see how you doing. Keep it up, looks like things are going in the right direction.

Great to see you working with the advice on the touch charges and the other recommendations on how to better improve communicating with W.

Have a Merry Christmas!

[RR17]

Thanks, Adam.

I will say that although things may seem on a positive path there is still uncertainty at many corners. I am optimistic but with a red pill cautious eye. I believe this to be a healthy approach yet not foolproof. The longer this trend continues without proper reconciliation the more I feel prone to let my guard down. While continuing to work to maintain Detachment, expectations can tend to sneak in. This vulnerability is unsettling at times. My main intention is to not let it shape my interactions with the W any more than possible. I am human and still slip and make mistakes. I have a plan for the time and intend to follow this plan until I rationally decide to change it. I can't and won't continue on this trajectory indefinitely.
Several guys on here are so supportive and remind me to be patient. They are correct, but without some movement, it can become unmaintainable over months and months.

Wishing all much peace this holiday season.

[RR17]

Sandi, I reread your last entry and believe there was a misunderstanding.

The second suggestion I have is to stick to one subject when you have these types of interaction. In other words, don't bring up the subject of sex, when you've been discussing something else. I think it's best to have a shorter conversation about one topic at a time, rather than going into several additional subjects. Make sense?

During our last R talk, I stopped short of saying that I don't want to remain in a sexless marriage. Meaning I didn't bring it up.

That said and I'm sure I will get jumped on for this but I'm bringing it here first. I am contemplating bringing it up early in the new year.
Thoughts are that it has been long enough and something is telling me that not bringing it up is more bata capitulation that just needs to stop. Time to put a foot down. It has been nearly 7 months and much good has come from the break, but enough is enough.
As for the good?
Well, for me it has stopped the ineffective pattern of temp-taking with sex. The idea that If she is sleeping with me then things are good.
For her? Well during tumultuous times W had stated several times that "All I wanted her for was sex" meaning that I really didn't like her for much else. During this break, not just from the sex but from any pressure to have it, I believe that I have proven that I do in fact like her for other reasons.

What I would appreciate is some feedback on the most constructive approach.
Thoughts on the pros and cons of saying anything.

Thanks as always.

[LH19]

Thoughts are that it has been long enough and something is telling me that not bringing it up is more bata capitulation that just needs to stop. Time to put a foot down. It has been nearly 7 months and much good has come from the break, but enough is enough.

I agree with you but there are a couple things I would like to comment on. Your delivery has to be spot on. You have to communicate to her that you love her you adore her and you desire her and you can't be just friends with her. If you come off demanding, pouty or being a dick you will not get the result you're looking for from her.

Also, what if she declines your request? Are you willing to walk and never look back unless she changes her mind? A true alpha would never agree to be in a relationship with a woman who will not have sex with him.

IMO you need to have these things worked out before having the conversation.

[sandi2]

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

Remind me, please, are you sleeping in separate bedrooms? If not, then my advice would be to shoot for sleeping in the same bed. Give her time to get comfortable with the physical closeness again. You should be able to recognize her body language, even if she doesn't say anything about what she wants or don't want. You may have to just sleep in the same bed for a while and very gradually increase the touching. You can put your arm around her, snuggle, hold her hand, stroke her arms, back, face and hair......but don't go anywhere around the cookie. If she can't relax and respond in a positive way to these type of touches while in the bed, then she may have intimacy issues. I don't mean she is afraid of her H or of having intercourse, but she has psychological issues that could stem from several things. She may not recognize it as fear of intimacy, but rather thinks something is wrong with her (sees herself as being abnormal) .....or assumes something is wrong in the MR.

So, for some women who have intimacy issues, it may not be the actual intercourse they try to avoid, but the length of time the H spends trying to warm her up sexually. I suppose most men have heard that it takes women longer.....yada, yada. But that warm up time is the intimate part for her......when all her insecurities start talking in her head. It's like when he's wanting the lights left on so he can see her naked body; or he's giving special attention to an area she feels self conscious about; or if he wants to introduce a new position and she feels fat and awkward: or when he tries to give her more passionate kisses...…. but she doesn't seem into it. She might agree to have sex, if he'll just get on with it and not take a long time trying to "warm her up". Women with intimacy problems may not welcome long, wet kisses, or fondling her breast for an hour. She just doesn't seem to warm up during this initial stage. She may turn her head and kiss him on the neck or shoulder to avoid direct contact with his open mouth. She may try to rush him through the initial stage to get to the finish line. This is a woman that has some negative issues with intimacy......for whatever reason. It doesn't mean she doesn't love her H. She is the one with the problem.

I read on some website that it has been scientifically proven that men actually do have a one track mind......whereas women have six tracks. That means she may not be able to forget about everything else and just enjoy having sex. The woman with intimacy problems has to get out of her own head...….and with six tracts, that's not so easy sometimes.

And may I add that whenever a woman listens to other women talk about good sex, or she reads erotic novels, or magazine articles...…..she wants to feel what those women claim to experience. She wants to go crazy and have passionate sex, like the books and movies portray...….,and she feels frustrated that she can't be like these other women. She may blame herself, or she may blame her partner, but she's not happy that she's not enjoying sex. My suggestion to the woman is to find out if there are some phycological hang-ups, and if so....then get therapy. It doesn't hurt just to talk to a therapist about it. Sometimes women just don't know how it affects a man, and if she has a negative attitude about it......it turns into a very sensitive subject to discuss when it's just the H & W trying to work it out on their own. There are a lot of books that can teach us about these things......but if she's unwilling, the books do no good on the shelves.

Also, she needs to have a hormone balancing specialist take blood tests. If her sex hormones are not where they need to be, then her sex drive may be in retirement.....but guess what? They have stuff that helps with that problem.

Anyway, if you feel you can't continue on with this arrangement, you might consider approaching her about sleeping in the same bed and on a permanent basis. Sleeping in separate rooms is not going to help the MR get back on track. So, that's a move that needs to be addressed before the sex talk, IMHO. If she won't agree to it, she's probably going to shut you down about sex. If that happens, then the ball has been thrown back to you...….so what is your next move? Are you ready to walk away from her and the M?

Maybe you will find out where the MR stands......and maybe you won't know anymore after approaching her. It's your call.

[Gordie]

RR

Sex has been a very touchy subject for w and me

She dropped the D back in January

And like your situation there was a lack of commitment to reconcile

It has been a long multi year marathon

DB coach said to give it time and to be patient

To focus on getting to know each other again

Being friends

Dating

Touching non sexually

This escalated from not wanting to be in the same room

To proximity

To touching like a friend

To hugs

To pecks on the cheek

To holding hands

And then this past week

To open mouthed kisses and sex

I told her back in January that I did not believe in a sexless marriage

But that there was no need to rush things until we were both ready

So she knew what I believed

And then I waited