What I learned from Wife's MLC

[kiro]

ST, you’re doing well IMO. If she said it’s over, then don’t ask about it and don’t try to find out. As you say, it’s likely still going on.

I was like you about finding somethkng to do that interests me. But you will with time.

You need to plan for the eventuality of a life without her. That’s a reality that you need to face. Forget your W for a moment and imagine all the things you could do if you were totally free. You could travel to any place you wanted, go fishing, camping, hiking, scuba diving, golfing, go to a spa for a week-end, etc. You could learn to play a new instrument, or painting...

Well, you know what? You are free.

This is not a punishment. It’s a treat.

[SoTorn]

Yep I agree. I just dont like leaving my kids behind. I'll find something to do today. I'm going to the gym for sure.

[kiro]

Here are my morning thoughts:

For newcomers, it is often difficult to understand what this journey is really about. A few years after I got married, I realized that my W and I will never totally understand each other. And it wasn't from a lack of trying. Each one had his own way of understanding things, his own baggage from childhood, a different personality, a different way of communication, etc. So I accepted that we had to live with our differences and accept each other as we are. Basically, we each had our own perception of the MR and of the world in general.

Why am I bringing this up? I think one of the challenges for new LBS is to realize that all the thoughts and feelings inside them are relative to a certain perception of the world. The LBS's have this "illusion" that saving their MR is the "right" thing to do and that their happiness and that of their children depend on it.

As a newcomer, when I used to read posts from LBS's who had totally detached and decided to move on with their lives without the WAS, I would be opposed to such a view and keep looking for other people who shared my view that the only way out was Reconciliation.

To me, moving on without the WAS was betraying my MR vows. I felt a duty and a responsibility to save my MR. And I couldn't even imagine a life without the WAS.

(By the way, it is normal that it takes time to process what is going on. Each one has to go through the grieving process (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) to be able to get out of the tunnel and see the light. I just wanted to describe how my opinion has shifted over the course of the past 1.5 year)

What I failed to see a year ago is that there are many other possibilities to live a life and they are all equally good. My happiness was not tied to that one life that I had planned for myself. There is nothing morally wrong to move on in life. I wasn't the one who betrayed my S and had an A (that would be morally wrong IMO).

I think it makes sense to wait some time before moving on because we don't understand what is going on. We are taken by surprise. We need to process, ask questions, assess the situation, grieve... But an LBS should understand that life will have many surprises and no one can plan all his life ahead of time. We need to accept change and be open to new adventures in life. I believe in right and wrong. I don't think everything is relative. But right and wrong are tied to our actions and our responses to life events. But there are so many equally good paths to live a happy and virtuous life.

When the WAS or WW chooses to leave the MR, the responsible thing to do is reassess our life and take care of ourselves and our children. In retrospect, I find that D is actually dismissed all too easily as one of the good and moral choices to make. If the WAS wants out, the moral choice toward them is to give them their freedom instead of torturing them in guilt and confusion.

The MR vows apply as long as there is consent between both spouses to remain married. But MR is a contract between 2 people. If 1 of the 2 wants out, the contract is void. This is not a case of better/worse, richer/poorer, sickness/health anymore.

The moral choice toward our children is to protect them and provide them a happy stress-free environment to live in.

And the moral choice toward ourselves is to take care of ourselves first, so we can continue to do good work in this life.


So, for newcomers (for the few who are still reading ), take time to process what's going on and to grieve, but keep an open mind. If you believe that there is a good chance to reconcile, then be patient but remember that your own happiness is more important. Put a deadline for waiting. Don't wait indefinitely. Life is great even after moving on. I found my happiness back and really looking forward to life after D. I don't feel any guilt or remorse.

Final word: D is just a paper. If the future wants us to reconcile, nothing prevents us from remarrying.

[Phoenix9]

Don't wait indefinitely.

How long is too long?

[Davide]

When the WAS or WW chooses to leave the MR, the responsible thing to do is reassess our life and take care of ourselves and our children. In retrospect, I find that D is actually dismissed all too easily as one of the good and moral choices to make. If the WAS wants out, the moral choice toward them is to give them their freedom instead of torturing them in guilt and confusion.

The MR vows apply as long as there is consent between both spouses to remain married. But MR is a contract between 2 people. If 1 of the 2 wants out, the contract is void. This is not a case of better/worse, richer/poorer, sickness/health anymore.

Yes! Thanks for posting this. I think this is very true, even if it is soooooo far from what most of us want to hear when we start our DB journeys. Even among old heads here I sometimes find that there is sometimes a sense that if someone lets go and starts reconstructing a new life without their WAS that there is a moral failing. There is an idea that the LBS "should" do everything possible to save the MR or wait out the "fog." I have read people expressing surprise that some LBS' give up "so quickly" and move on. Why? Life is short, divorce is a piece of paper, and we alone are responsible for our happiness. I don't mean to be glib about it because this is a bear of a process and it has knocked me on my a$$ numerous times. But I think you are correct that in many cases getting a D can be moral choice.

Thanks for putting it better than I ever could.

[kiro]

Even among old heads here I sometimes find that there is sometimes a sense that if someone lets go and starts reconstructing a new life without their WAS that there is a moral failing. There is an idea that the LBS "should" do everything possible to save the MR or wait out the "fog." I have read people expressing surprise that some LBS' give up "so quickly" and move on. Why? Life is short, divorce is a piece of paper, and we alone are responsible for our happiness.

Being the first to leave the MR (like the WAS does) could be questionable from a moral point of view depending on each person's beliefs (e.g. religious) and values (e.g. commitment, loyalty), but dealing with MR when our partner has already left or is asking for his/her freedom is a totally different story.

And I'm not even trying to make a moral judgment about the WAS's choice. I leave this to everyone to decide according to their beliefs/values.

[kiro]

Don't wait indefinitely.

How long is too long?

Pain18, I'm sure you already know that I can't give you an objective answer. No one can. This is up to everyone to decide for himself. I can only give you my own experience and what I read from others.

I had BD in July 2017. It took me 2 to 3 months just to process what was going on. My W was also still confused and hadn't made up her mind 100%.

By Oct/Nov 2017, I can say that I had really understood what I was dealing with. I read and listened to everything available about reconciling MRs (and I paid a lot of $$ for several programs). That's when I started consciously trying to do everything possible to get her back (at least that's what I thought) and I decided to wait at least 1 year. This is also what was recommended by one of the marriage coaching programs.

But a few months later, I had dropped the idea of a deadline and started just going with the flow and patiently waiting in pain.

Ironically, by the time I came out of my depression, reached acceptance, and looking to move on, it was exactly 1 year after I had initially given myself a deadline.

It has also been 1 year since the last time we were physically intimate.

And It coincides to about 11 to 12 months after physical separation.

So for me, it was 1 year but it could be different for others. The sooner the better for your own happiness.

I also recommend a certain time before rushing into a new relationship. I've read people suggest 1 year to 2 years after separation. I know some will tell you that life is too short, but that doesn't worry me. There are many other ways to enjoy life in the meantime

[SoTorn]

Here are my morning thoughts:

For newcomers, it is often difficult to understand what this journey is really about. A few years after I got married, I realized that my W and I will never totally understand each other. And it wasn't from a lack of trying. Each one had his own way of understanding things, his own baggage from childhood, a different personality, a different way of communication, etc. So I accepted that we had to live with our differences and accept each other as we are. Basically, we each had our own perception of the MR and of the world in general.

Why am I bringing this up? I think one of the challenges for new LBS is to realize that all the thoughts and feelings inside them are relative to a certain perception of the world. The LBS's have this "illusion" that saving their MR is the "right" thing to do and that their happiness and that of their children depend on it.

As a newcomer, when I used to read posts from LBS's who had totally detached and decided to move on with their lives without the WAS, I would be opposed to such a view and keep looking for other people who shared my view that the only way out was Reconciliation.

To me, moving on without the WAS was betraying my MR vows. I felt a duty and a responsibility to save my MR. And I couldn't even imagine a life without the WAS.

(By the way, it is normal that it takes time to process what is going on. Each one has to go through the grieving process (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) to be able to get out of the tunnel and see the light. I just wanted to describe how my opinion has shifted over the course of the past 1.5 year)

What I failed to see a year ago is that there are many other possibilities to live a life and they are all equally good. My happiness was not tied to that one life that I had planned for myself. There is nothing morally wrong to move on in life. I wasn't the one who betrayed my S and had an A (that would be morally wrong IMO).

I think it makes sense to wait some time before moving on because we don't understand what is going on. We are taken by surprise. We need to process, ask questions, assess the situation, grieve... But an LBS should understand that life will have many surprises and no one can plan all his life ahead of time. We need to accept change and be open to new adventures in life. I believe in right and wrong. I don't think everything is relative. But right and wrong are tied to our actions and our responses to life events. But there are so many equally good paths to live a happy and virtuous life.

When the WAS or WW chooses to leave the MR, the responsible thing to do is reassess our life and take care of ourselves and our children. In retrospect, I find that D is actually dismissed all too easily as one of the good and moral choices to make. If the WAS wants out, the moral choice toward them is to give them their freedom instead of torturing them in guilt and confusion.

The MR vows apply as long as there is consent between both spouses to remain married. But MR is a contract between 2 people. If 1 of the 2 wants out, the contract is void. This is not a case of better/worse, richer/poorer, sickness/health anymore.

The moral choice toward our children is to protect them and provide them a happy stress-free environment to live in.

And the moral choice toward ourselves is to take care of ourselves first, so we can continue to do good work in this life.


So, for newcomers (for the few who are still reading ), take time to process what's going on and to grieve, but keep an open mind. If you believe that there is a good chance to reconcile, then be patient but remember that your own happiness is more important. Put a deadline for waiting. Don't wait indefinitely. Life is great even after moving on. I found my happiness back and really looking forward to life after D. I don't feel any guilt or remorse.

Final word: D is just a paper. If the future wants us to reconcile, nothing prevents us from remarrying.

I agree 100%. I dont want to save MR because it's right honestly. I would hope to save MR because I love mywife. But yes, shes gone. I have accepted that. I'm not trying to torture her. I want her to be happy. But not at my expense.

I have a bit to process still. I'm actually strongly considering just moving out. I honestly dont believe I want to be married to WW anymore. I wont ever look at her the same. I wont ever feel the same about her.

[kiro]

SoTorn, great for you. I'm happy you see this as a good option.

But I am still feeling some bitterness. You will need to work on that. All happens naturally with time. Feelings come and go. Don't say "never". You don't know how you may feel in the future. You probably never thought this would happen and never thought that you would consider moving on, but it happened. Trying to predict and control the future is impossible. I think we just need to accept the present and do the best for ourselves.

[SoTorn]

SoTorn, great for you. I'm happy you see this as a good option.

But I am still feeling some bitterness. You will need to work on that. All happens naturally with time. Feelings come and go. Don't say "never". You don't know how you may feel in the future. You probably never thought this would happen and never thought that you would consider moving on, but it happened. Trying to predict and control the future is impossible. I think we just need to accept the present and do the best for ourselves.

I'm honestly not bitter. In just very hurt still. IHS is making it hard for me not to be hurt by what she is doing.

I actually feel now that I need to get away from her. I actually feel like not being around her. I feel that if I were to have my own place and lived alone that I could better focus solely on myself.