Uncertain of What I Have (Thread 2)

[Bo562]

Thanks B,

You’re right—stop trying to mind-read her, but it’s hard to not look for signs, of anything.

I just need to concentrate on being more present to her, in the moment.

I’ve said it before, and will say again and again and again—if she really is that depressed / angry / whatever, she needs to be sitting in front of a professional every week or two.

I won’t force her—and while I’m bothered by my trying to get things right and her not appearing to what to fix what is inside, I did have a moment of clarity (I suppose)—that she tried to get things right and for her, I didn’t appear to fix what was wrong.

[AnotherStander]

But what you’re saying is that I shouldn’t read too much into all this, correct?

Exactly. WAS's will often be friendly, even overly friendly after BD. This can confuse the LBS and make them think maybe the WAS has had a change of heart. That usually leads to a temperature check and the LBS getting BD'd all over again. The reality is the WAS does this to "soften the blow" and/ or make the S and D process go smoother (they hope).

I shouldn’t get too worked up about all this, but I am worried about a post-New Years / holiday BD. This all really came to a head back in late-January / early February. She mentioned something about when YS ‘is in a better place,’ so that may be then.

Yeah there's really no telling. I understand you want to know, I mean the "not knowing" what they are going to do is pure torture. But just try to live with not knowing and work on you and your GAL.

[Bo562]

Exactly. WAS's will often be friendly, even overly friendly after BD. This can confuse the LBS and make them think maybe the WAS has had a change of heart. That usually leads to a temperature check and the LBS getting BD'd all over again. The reality is the WAS does this to "soften the blow" and/ or make the S and D process go smoother (they hope).

This was the sitch over spring and summer, except for the temp check on my end (have NOT done that at pretty much any point). Things were good for the most part, and I thought we were somewhat out of the woods, and then 1 month after YS was born, she floats idea of potential ‘break’ or separation.

But within the past couple of weeks I’ve let go of most of the rope on my end and have stopped asking for sex / intimacy after getting shot down.

I know getting WAY ahead of myself for something that may never happen, but....(I’m not good emotionally in the moment, so I need to have talking points to work from already prepared and relatively rehearsed so I’m not deer in the headlights)

I’ve thought about a S /D BD from her—and what I could / would say in response, just to prepare self. I’ve seen something to the effect of from Steve ‘I think what we have can be saved if we put the work in. A marriage requires 2 to be committed, but only takes 1 to separate or divorce. While I disagree with it, I cannot and will not stop you from separating or divorcing. However, I will do nothing to help you leave me either because I am morally opposed to it.’ And then at that point I would tell her that she can start by sleeping out in the living room.

But yeah, all this feels like pure torture. It feels like somewhat like an IHS, though not official. Ugh.

[Bo562]

So, this is interesting.....

YS has been fussy today and not been into naps. After bath and feeding, while W puts OS to sleep, I walked YS around to try to get him to sleep. He eventually does, and I lay him down in pack-and-play.

I tell W this, and then she rattles off for me a whole laundry list of things that she needs to do. Pack OS’ lunch, wash bottles, sweep and mop, etc.

I ask her what she needs help with. She asks me what, if anything, I am available to do tonight, because I’ve been looking rather preoccupied to her (which is true—have tons of grading to get done, but I’ve also tried detaching, and walking the fine line between detaching and being cold, coming home later, coming home the last 2 nights in workout clothes). She mentioned that I’ve been acting kinda weird for the last week, and if I’m okay. I tell her ‘Everything’s great,’ to which she responds ‘yeah that totally did not sound sincere at all.’ I told her ‘Everything’s good. I’ll go vacuum the living room,’ I turn around and walk out. And so I did a few of the chores on the list. But yeah that ‘Everything’s good’ was Oscar-worthy performance on my part.

To be fair, if I really wanted to drop the rope with her, I could have / should have just left her to her own devices after she rattled off the list of chores. I bent over backwards spring, summer and early fall taking care of her and family to get ready for YS, and in Oct. she tells me that it’s still not good enough. I really should have just walked away and said ‘that’s unfortunate.’ Oh, well. But she has noticed a change.

If I’ve been acting weird, then what the h*** has her act been the last 10 months or so? ILYBINILWY BD? Talk about taking a break or S? Denying sex and telling me many couples don’t have as much sex after having a child, while having sex toys nearby or in the showers? Her being all withdrawn? And I’M THE ONE who needs to be looked at? ‘Believe nothing they say.’

[burned]

“How dare you detach from me when I’m the one who wants to go!”

WW garbage. You handled it decently well. She’s trying to get you back under her control. Just keep doing what you’re doing, and stay consistent. You’re right, next time, if it’s not a question, like “Did we pay the electric bill,” then just go with, “That sounds like a lot to do! Well, gotta go do some grading.” If you can’t say “Everything’s fine,” and convince both of you that you’re sincere, then you need to extricate yourself from the conversation before it gets to that. Think Admiral Akbar in Star Wars: “It’s a trap!”

And very likely that she’ll escalate. Guilt, anger, threats...don’t buy any of it, and don’t take it to heart. She’s just trying to get you back under her spell so SHE gets to control the timeline.

My hunch, if she’s not pushing for S and not makes her nervous that you’re more detached, it means OM isn’t a good option at the moment, for whatever reason. When he, or another one, becomes a viable option again, she will take it up a notch. So just keep DBing because you’re not anyone’s plan B.

[AnotherStander]

I ask her what she needs help with. She asks me what, if anything, I am available to do tonight, because I’ve been looking rather preoccupied to her (which is true—have tons of grading to get done, but I’ve also tried detaching, and walking the fine line between detaching and being cold, coming home later, coming home the last 2 nights in workout clothes). She mentioned that I’ve been acting kinda weird for the last week, and if I’m okay. I tell her ‘Everything’s great,’ to which she responds ‘yeah that totally did not sound sincere at all.’ I told her ‘Everything’s good. I’ll go vacuum the living room,’ I turn around and walk out. And so I did a few of the chores on the list. But yeah that ‘Everything’s good’ was Oscar-worthy performance on my part.

OK so first she was baiting you. Second you took the bait. Next time just look at her like an eye sprouted in the middle of her forehead. Like, perplexed and a little amused. And then say "OK well like I said, let me know if you need help" and walk out. Why do I say that? Well she was doing a temp check and the way to respond to those is not to respond. Because any response to it is playing into her hands. She KNOWS you're not OK, so to say you are OK tells her you are trying desperately to act "as if". And of course if you say you're not OK then you just look sad and desperate. So don't reply. THAT will make her wonder.

To be fair, if I really wanted to drop the rope with her, I could have / should have just left her to her own devices after she rattled off the list of chores.

I think you mean if you were acting "detached", because if you dropped the rope you wouldn't have been having the convo with her in the first place or even been in the same room with her. Why? Because once you drop the rope you no longer care. You are done with all the BS and giving her the absolute minimum time required as a coparent.

I bent over backwards spring, summer and early fall taking care of her and family to get ready for YS, and in Oct. she tells me that it’s still not good enough.

Aren't you the good little housewife! Yes that's a jab but here's why- cooking, cleaning and taking care of kids is great, but it's solid beta behavior. While a wife may appreciate it in a healthy relationship, it's not the sort of thing that gets her motor revved up. It's not what's going to make her lay awake at night thinking about you with an elevated heart rate. It's not attractive. A lot of LBS's make the mistake of doubling down on beta behavior after BD thinking their W just wants more help with domestic chores. But it just makes the LBS look desperate and a little pathetic. I am not saying not to do those things, I mean you should do your part around the house, particularly if the M is healthy. But it sounds like you had expectations that it would make you more attractive to her, and it won't.

If I’ve been acting weird, then what the h*** has her act been the last 10 months or so? ILYBINILWY BD? Talk about taking a break or S? Denying sex and telling me many couples don’t have as much sex after having a child, while having sex toys nearby or in the showers? Her being all withdrawn? And I’M THE ONE who needs to be looked at?

You see who has all the control here? You need to start taking it back. You're letting her beat you down with just a couple of snide comments about your attitude.

[burned]

Glad to hear AS say that because it sounded like bat + temp check...combined! She's pulling out the big guns and you're wearing antlers! Put on something orange and hike in the other direction.

You have to be brief NO MATTER WHAT and it will be HARD not only because it hurts you (you want to feel close to her and instead you have to pull away), but also SHE knows how to work it, and she has had what, the better part of this whole year (along with the entire time she's known you) to figure out what works and what doesn't, what you will and won't do, how you'll react to various things. So she will use that information to her advantage, to maintain control.

[Bo562]

@burned—Yeah, total trap. What is a ‘bat’? BTW, thanks for the affirmation—I thought I did relatively well, but clearly could have done better. She hasn’t piped up about S since mid-Oct., but like on a different thread, I’ve been emotionally waiting for the proverbial Sword of Damocles to swing down upon me and MR, so I’m trying to ready myself if it happens. I don’t have firm proof of OM, but in a different post on this thread I did express my doubts and insecurities about that. Like I said, not firm proof, but I’m always gonna wonder.

And you’re right, burned—she knows me well enough to know what my ‘triggers’ and ‘buttons’ are—so remove them.

A/S: As I said on a different thread and would be wise to remember myself, the only winning move is not to play. Don’t take the bait again.

The last few weeks, I’ve been letting go of some more of the housework and not trying to be SuperDad or SuperHubby (what I tried over spring and summer), because in light of what she told me in Oct., I realized that that DOESN’T REALLY MATTER. So, why try so hard if she is supposedly entertaining this idea?

I know what you are saying—do my share, but not exactly bend over backwards for her.

I also shouldn’t get hooked emotionally by her comments—but at least I did that here in the forum instead of in front of her, so that’s progress.

Note to self: Do better.

[burned]

"Bat" was a typo; should have said "bait."

Sword of Damocles, I know that feeling way too well. It might be the worst feeling ever. It's the feeling that makes me want to grab the sword and use it myself, a.k.a. beat her to the punch and file. I've been strongly advised against it.

It's a feeling of not having control over your own future. So in the meantime I can take control of MY future by working on me and by preparing for how I'll respond if/when that sword comes down.

[Bo562]

@burned

I’m not to the point of wanting to make the first move. I don’t think it’s necessary at present in my sitch. Now, if I find out that there is an OM, then yeah—she would definitely get the boot from MBR, for starters, and then it would go from there.

But I’m not looking to do anything stupid, rash or reckless. It’s not worth it.

There are many reasons why this is hard for me, though it’s hard for everyone here, and I understand that.

For my sitch, though—I’m a religion teacher at a Catholic HS, so I talk about marriage and family fairly often. This week I’ve talked with my students about the concepts of unity, indissolubility, and openness to children—concepts that are being threatened in my own situation as it is.

I know that I need to be the lighthouse, and that this is where I struggle—I’m trying to find my voice on this in my own life and in my own MR, hence the ups and downs, and incomplete execution. It’s like when I first started teaching—I need to experience certain things first, and as I get reps, I develop a script or talking points to follow. It’s not always useful in my current work to operate from emotion, though it does happen.

It’s hard enough to be the lighthouse no matter the line of work all of us find ourselves in, but for me, it’s sometimes quite painful. For me, this cuts to the concepts of vocation and witness. My vocation as a husband and father, that I dreamed of for a very long time, praying for my now W even long before I met her. That I have to live as an authentic witness to what I believe and what I teach, and have the concepts central to that witness threatened is very painful. Not only am I to be a lighthouse to my wife and kids, but also to my students—to the young men that I teach, that it is okay to be a faithful man of God and model that for them, and to be a witness to the young women in my classes of what a godly man looks like, and that they deserve so much better from our society and even from many of the men (fathers, boyfriends) in their own lives.

It’s also tough to talk about being faithful—though there is no other person for me (or as yet to my knowledge for W). I understand that it is incredibly difficult no matter our line of work, that temptation is almost always present to some extent. And it’s especially present here, where there is no shortage of women who are very attractive emotionally, spiritually, as well as obviously physically—and often times, appear so so much more attractive than W, in light of how things are.

That is why from the get-go teaching I’ve kept very strong boundaries with my female colleagues and female students. I don’t associate too much with my female colleagues—trying to reduce temptation. Since my MR began, I’ve also ‘dropped the rope’ emotionally with many of my female friends, out of reverence for our MR and devotion to the W. I’m still relatively close with a female friend who will be YS’ baptismal sponsor, but even then there are still boundaries. But that’s pretty much it. Not exactly many, if at all, pretty young things blowing up my phone.

So for me, saying “Hi, how are you X” and “Have a good day X” to my female colleagues is a bit of an ego boost to me, but also me trying to associate with more women and just open myself. To open myself up emotionally within limits, but also to open myself up to the possibility that I deserve better down the road—from another woman, if need be, or deserving better from W. But I also know that I need to be careful in associating with others in my workplace, to not blur the lines too much.

Thanks for reading.