Whirlwind of Hurt 5

[JB42]

Oh man, TF. Our situations sound eerily similar. I have those same thoughts, is it all my fault, what could I have done better, etc, etc. Self-ID what issues you have, work with your IC and make a plan to do better, but know that your W is full of her own set of issues and as great as you could have been, know that it may not have changed where you are today.
I'm rooting for your success, whatever that looks like.

[Bo562]

W then wanted to talk about dating. She wanted to know if I was dating or planned on it. I said no, not anytime soon. TF dont be afraid to date she says. I say I am improving myself, focusing on my friends, family, kids, work and my side business. I said I am building my empire, and I dont have time for OP in the near future. She said she wasn't dating right now cause she is still M to me, but wants to wait a while to be alone and figure her stuff out. She asks about my plans again I said I am never getting M again, you saw the stats in the class. I say 70% of second M in D, just not worth it. W says you cant tell OP that. I said yes I can, otherwise if they don't like it we are wasting time. W says she will probably never M as well, doesn't want to risk assets or trauma to the kids. She talks about online dating and is avoiding it. I say yes haven't heard good things. Also talked about hookup culture and modern dating scene. I say my morals are R first sex later, but many of the guys I know say no sex after 3 dates means woman gets dumped. My friends in CA (both guys and girls) are telling me it's more like 1 to 2 is standard for their area. This scared W and disgusted her. She says a coworker who is single with kids told her she effed up and W should have worked it out with me. She says the dating scene for divorced moms like them is garbage and they are just going to end up alone, all the good men are married or dont date women like them. I say sorry about that, but the hard truth is you are 35, 3 young kids, W interjects with fat and ugly, I say I always found you beautiful. Anyway your prospects aren't great, you are going to be dating older dudes, most likely divorced dudes. I say the women I talked to say I am handsome and will be able to date ladies in there 20's. W tries to tell me who I can date and how young I say ok I can understand how you feel that way.

Sorry about your sitch, TF.

While I haven’t been hit with S / D bomb (at least not yet), I often think about the dating scene, too. Wonder what part of Cali your friends are in (we’re in SoCal, Orange County).

And I tell myself that despite the problems and issues I have, I still think W has it pretty decent with me, especially W/R/T a lot of other men out there (unless there is an OM—at least not one I’m aware of). I also wonder to myself how many men would put up with W, anyway if she left: gives H the boot, has 2 small kids under 6, she loves to travel for work and spend many nights out late for work, and it’s not like her teeth are in that great of shape anyway (though I married her in spite of it and have put $ and time in to her working on that).

Of course I could be in complete denial about everything, too. But I also know that I deserve a whole lot better—either from her, or maybe someone else down the road if she decides to nuke everything.

And so do you.

[burned]

Saw your post on Sandi’s reflections thread.

12/6/18:

We will be ok Burn. It's hard, but we will come out on the other side as better guys. We do this because we want to, we need to, we have to. Hang in there.

Right back at you.

You didn’t do anything wrong. A setback isn’t a failure. Being honest in the face of manipulation doesn’t change the fact that you’re being honest. Your integrity comes from how YOU act, not from how other people react. If you said what you felt you needed to say because it was the right thing to say, so be it. And when you consider the long game, THAT’S what people will remember. Not their dogged out emotional responses.

Twofeet is still Twofeet no matter what anyone else thinks.

[LH19]

TF,

I saw your post to Sandi on the the other thread. IMO your W is definitely lying yo you and I would be completely shocked if she wasn't already dating OM. If not she most likely would have at least waited until after the holidays.

Shake off what you told her and keep moving forward. I have yet to see a story where the W fast tracks to D and then changes her mind a month or so later. It is usually years down the road.

Just remember all these proclamations you are making are based on how you feel right now. Your feeling can and most likely will change in the future.

[Twofeet]

Friday I flew to my destination, and I arrived at the hotel at night. I cried in my room and went to bed. Woke up in the middle of the night, cried and posted here blaming myself. Woke up in the A.M. cried then went to breakfast with my old boss and his wife. Updated them on my sitch since we have become good friends after I transferred to my home state. We explored the city, then I went back to my room to recharge and cry. Later was lunch with colleagues then more exploring until it was time to go back to my room to get ready for the evening, to which I cried again. The the evening work festivities which were awesome, and concluded with an impromptu party in our hotel lobby/bar. Didn't tell anyone about my sitch other than the earlier discussions with my old boss. I didn't feel like being a downer while everyone was having such a good time. The HR lady did come up to me at one point that evening and says something to the effect of you are going through some hard times. I say yes very hard times, it was all unexpected and completely out of the blue. She says I'm really sorry to hear that and comes up to rub/pat my back. She says I was in a similar situation, I can understands what you are going through. You are going to be okay, you will make it through this. It was a very nice gesture and felt good. It almost caused me to get emotional and I think she sensed that so she backed off and changed subjects. After the party I went to my room and cried.
I woke up the next morning and cried. Ubered to the airport where the driver out of the blue told me a story about his friend who cheated on his wife and the price he paid for it. Is this random story a coincidence or a little message from God? When I pray I often ask for little signs that I am being heard. Anyway sitting at the airport I was feeling really blue and trying to bury my emotions as the airport is not the best place for it. By the time I was on the plane heading home I had leveled out and was feeling better. I stopped by my parents place for dinner. Told my parents about my emotional state. They said its probably due to the reality of everything really getting real especially after the child classes on Friday. Told me W dropped all my family or friends from my side from her social media. Probably to hide what she is doing, protect herself, so no one has any ammunition or can tell her parents what she is doing. I tell my parents that at least now no one can accidentally tell me what she is posting on social media.
After dinner I drove to W house to pick up my dog. My kids were excited to see me and show me their rooms as W bought a bunch of stuff to decorate them. W was using the philips head screwdriver bit to basically poke holes in the wall with the electric drill. I explained how to do it with a drill bit first and asked if she wanted a demonstration, but she said she was almost done and it was pretty much too late. I had to let my dog out before I could go and W had me cornered and started having the R talk with me. I just validated, over and over. She was talking about resentment she had built up in our MR, how hard things have been for her. She is broke and wants to IOU me for Nov & Dec CS payments plus the other expenses she owes me. She doesn't want to do joint Santa gifts because she cant afford it. I told her I would send her an email with the items and totals of what she owes. I told her that her priority should be paying her portion of the kids tuition first as she hasn't paid. I am thinking to myself if she stopped buying stuff like a tattoo, couple of nights out on the town every week, decorations on other nonessentials for her home maybe she would have more money. She is the one with a 6 figure income and took 90% of the cash assets and she is the broke one. Anyway she has her tattoo exposed and the kids know about it. I think it looks good and let her know that. (She looks good to me which makes it really hard and I try calling the dog in as I need to get out of the situation I am in). W wants to know why I told the kids about her sister's tattoo (Her sis got a tattoo on her hip back when she was like 19 and has kept it hidden from her parents all these years) I tell wife I learned about your tat on Friday, and haven't seen the kids since then. When would I tell D8 about the tat? W says what about before that? I say good grief she stays the night at the cousins house, I am sure once in those many times she has probably seen it. W then goes on to say how she is hurt by what I said Friday about how hard it is going to be for her to date and get into a R while I am out having fun dating younger attractive women in their 20s. I just keep validating. I apologized for coming off like I was trying to be mean and tell her the truth is we are both at a disadvantage, we both have baggage we will carry with us. More R talk, more resentment, and me validating. She gets mad at one point and says stop saying you care, you don't care, get the hell out of my house. I never said that or use that in my validation, whatever she was Friday, she is clearly not that and she is still on the rollercoaster. Finally, my dog is ready to go and I head out the door. W stops me even though she just tried kicking me out. She starts more R talk and tearing up which at this point I am so taxed I start tearing up. She comments how in the past she could be bawling here eyes out and I was stone cold. Now she starts tearing up and I tear up, the change confuses her. I don't tell her its because I am changing and improving, that goes against DB. At this point I am trying to get out the door, W is hurting and I am hurting. I am fighting off a huge urge to hug, kiss, and comfort her. I can't do that anymore and I need to get out. Before I leave I say look I am truly sorry for all the wrongs I did in our MR, I own up to every single thing I did. If I could go back in time I would, but I can't. I can only move forward. She says thank you then we say goodbye. Man, that was next level hard. We are both deeply wounded people, and it still amazes me how deep her wounds go. Makes me feel terrible, and question myself. I thought I was a good H, but could a good H cause this much hurt? Makes me feel like a piece of human trash.

New DB goal: Stop putting myself in situations with W where we talk about things beyond kids and kid related expenses. W is too intoxicating for me and I get hooked and drawn in too easy.

Bo562 - I have friends in SoCal.

LH19, DV6, Davide, and everyone else thank you for your words. It really helps. Since Friday I have been feeling a deep sadness and your comments really go a long way.

[DejaVu6]

Sounds really, really tough Turbine but maybe a bit cathartic too. This is definitely a marathon. Your W obviously is not as sure about things as she wants you to believe. As hard as it is, you still need to continue to focus on finding you again and being the best dad you can be. I know what you mean about signs. This week alone I have either met or heard about three women in my community whose husbands just up and left their families. I feel for them. It is not a situation I would wish on my worst enemy. It WILL get better with time. I know not much of a comfort right now but it will... as soon as you drop the rope. (((HUGS)))

[AnotherStander]

Where I really effed up is I said I will always keep the door open for W.

The whole convo was a mistake. It wasn't a major screw-up or anything, but you shouldn't be engaging in ANY kind of talks with W about dating and such. She asks you if you are dating or going to date? Tell her you'd rather not discuss that with her, PERIOD. As for keeping the door open, don't keep reminding her, she already knows you are Plan B. The trick is getting her to think you are NOT Plan B anymore.

Well I wanted to hit her with some reality

That's not your job, it's life's. The fact is you CAN'T get her to see reality because she won't believe it coming from you. She'll see any attempt on your part to give her a dose of reality as a "trick" to win her back.

She couldn't believe she got a tattoo and she was on an emotional rollercoaster and went off the rails on me.

There you go, life teaching her a lesson! Wait until one of the executives notices it. Karma!

but I thought I was a good man

Why are her bad life decisions making you think otherwise?

What did I do to deserve this? What did I do wrong? Why is God punishing me? Why am I being tested?

God isn't testing you, you didn't do anything wrong, this is just life. We're all dealt crappy hands sometimes and we have no choice but to play them. Yes it's miserable to go through but your life isn't ALL bad. You are healthy, you are employed, your kids are healthy, your W is still alive and as long as she is there's still a chance for recon. By all means cry and grieve as it helps you get over it. But eventually you'll start seeing that despite this, you are going to be just fine and will rise above it all.

Right now I feel like I just want to curl up into a ball and die.

Believe me, I was there, and you have got to take this piece of advice to heart- GET OUT AND GAL. There is nothing that will make that feeling go away quickly, but with time GAL will make it go away. Make yourself GAL every day. Eventually you won't have to make yourself do it quite so hard, and then after that you'll actually find yourself enjoying it.

This hurts more than anything I have ever experienced in my life, and it wont stop hurting.

The pain seems unbearable but you can do this. It WILL stop, just not as fast as you want it to. Take things a day at a time. Don't worry about tomorrow, just get through the day. Or if that seems too much, then take it an hour at a time. There's no reason to give up hope, people reconcile from much worse places than you and your W so you really don't know if it's over or not. So hang onto hope, and get out and GAL.

[neffer]

Hey TF, I should print the above post from AS. Print it and read it every day when waking up.

[sandi2]

I don't want to sound like I am looking for a pity party, but I thought I was a good man. I know I am not perfect and I made mistakes.

I want to make something perfectly clear. The reason your W has left the MR and is filing for a D is not b/c you are/were a bad man. Being imperfect does not make us a bad person. From what I have read, you need to stop beating up on yourself. Your W manipulates you like crazy! She verbally beats you up, and you take it......and validate her. I know most everyone here preaches validation, but I think there comes a time with a wayward W that the H needs to stop trying to validate his abuser while she's verbally beating him. That's just me. There's a time and place, if you know what I mean.

I said I would always keep the door open for you if you wanna have a talk about an R down the road. Basically Coach CW mindset, but the wrong approach. Basically it screams look at me I want to be plan B. I am open to a reconciliation, but not being plan B.

I could not agree more! With WW's, the H cannot show that he is available now or in the future. Instead, he has to show actions of moving on with his life. The WW has to see she is losing him in several ways, and he's not going to be available whenever she decides she wants him. She has to realize she is losing him as a friend, a partner, a counselor, a rescuer, a errand boy, a plumber, construction worker, mechanic, or whatever the heck she needs fixing at any given moment.

This is the mindset of wayward W's. She does not identify with your pain. She does not even realize the depth of your suffering. She thinks only of her own feelings. That's how she operates. Everything she does is motivated by selfishness. You may not always see it, but I promise you that she is thinking how she will benefit in every situation. You cannot take anything at face value when dealing with a WW. You cannot believe anything she says. I responded to your post on my thread, regarding this subject.

Before I leave I say look I am truly sorry for all the wrongs I did in our MR, I own up to every single thing I did. If I could go back in time I would, but I can't. I can only move forward. She says thank you then we say goodbye.

Okay TF, consider this your point where you completely shift in your "relationship" with your WW. Don't look at this four month period as your last chance to "win" her back by becoming someone she'll like. That type of mindset causes men to become wimps. This is the time you take a completely different approach in how you deal with this situation.

You stop engaging with her. No more comforting her. No more hugs or kisses. No more tenderness. No more rescuing her. You let her go. You let her learn on her own, and the hard way......without helping her. This is tough love. It is not being hateful or mean. As a WW. she has to go through this for her own sake. She will never find her way back to being her old self if you don't make this shift.

You stop having chats with her. No more allowing her to corner you off while she verbally beats you down. No more texting back & forth conversations. Use as few words as possible if you must relay a message regrading the kids. She won't like it, and she will probably accuse you of being cold or whatever in order to manipulate you...….but stick to your guns. Btw, don't fall into that trap where she asks for photos of the kids when they aren't with her. That's just a WW's of keeping the H connected to her. You owe her no explanations!! She chose to leave her position as your W, so now she stops getting the benefits. You stop serving cake. You stop being her H. Understand?

This will feel opposite of what your emotions tell you to do. I'm telling you as a former WW, you can't be her friend during this time. It will not pull her closer. It just gives her an excuse to abuse you more. The next four months, you need to go as dark as possible with her. Don't show her you care or are interested in anything she does. Don't let her pull you into her drama. Drop the rope.

I suggest you no longer go inside her house. If you pick up the kids or drop them off at her place, do it at the door.....but don't go inside. Whenever the H goes inside the WW's place, it's too easy for her to draw him into other things. So, be strong here. Learn to say, "No, thanks"...…...or just, "No".

She needs a rude awakening. That's what it takes for a WW to come to her senses. You have been there for her for 20 years. How do you think she's going to make it without you now? Well, I think she'll try to keep you connected, b/c she habitually turns to you. This is when you must be strong and not fall for her tricks. When you detach and GAL, and stop engaging with her......you'll be able to see her tactics more clearly.

You said you were going to focus on yourself. Have you made any changes inside your house? Taken down her pictures, fix the place to look like a man lives there....instead of a woman? Know what I mean? Hey, turn it into a man cave, if you like. It's your place to do whatever you want. It's just a suggestion.

If I have confused you, please ask questions. Although my words my sound somewhat pro-divorce to some people, I am telling you, from the viewpoint of a former WW, what you need to do.

[neffer]

Well TF, maybe you´ll need to buy a new printer...;)

Stand strong there man, keep DB!