Bo, do you think that in order to teach about the virtues of marriage that you have to be a perfect man in a perfect marriage, utterly without sin? Who do you know like that? Think about who teaches AA classes, is it someone who has never been affected by alcohol? No it's reformed alcoholics that have slept in gutters with a bottle in their hand. Who coaches drug addicts through rehab, is it people pure of heart and spirit who have never made mistakes? No, it's reformed drug addicts that know what it's like to pass out with drool coming out of their mouth and a needle still stuck in their arm. Who teaches Retrouvaille classes, is it perfect couples that are a shining example of an unblemished marriage? No, it's couples that have been through horrible, terrible, even frightening experiences. So you say you don't understand why you are going through this, I say I know EXACTLY why you are. A sword is weak indeed before it's tempered in blazing flames.
I will admit that in light of all this the faithfulness aspect on my end gets challenged very much, too, especially with how my W is right now.
I feel more loved and appreciated by others here at work than the W does. It’s much much easier to see others who are more emotionally and spiritually stimulating, as well as physically attractive. I’m sorry—I might as well confess this in the forum, then in front of W, or worse yet, in front of someone at work.
I’ve mentioned (on this and other threads), that it’s hard to find the W attractive on the whole right now. I mean, she’s not bad looking, but the dour attitude, threats of the future, withholding sex and being emotionally unavailable are NOT turn-on’s—rather, it just kinda turns me off, and if her goal (conscious or not) is to turn me away, then MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. (I know, I know, I’m mind-reading, but might as well say it here and vent.) Next time W and I have sex (which, who knows when), under her current state, it would be more like a live-in GF, or a one-night stand.
Believe me, I don’t want to have an EA / PA, because that would ruin my family, any chance with W, and quite possibly my career / job, so it’s not worth it. An EA / PA would give her all the justification she needs to do any next steps, and that’s not what I want or should do. I’m not going to push her out the door if I can help it, or give her a reason to push me out the door.
In an earlier post, I mentioned how knowing that she texts every so often a male co-worker, and once upon a time W and I talked about the fact that those 2 met at a work training (both federal employees, but different regional offices) at a time when things weren’t so great between the 2 of us.
I guess the diff for me now is that I’m not using this period to have some lovely young woman blow up my phone.
I know it will probably be a while before I have to worry about this, given my sitch, but.....Questions about sex.
Given my current sitch, not going to approach sex with W, unless / until she asks.
But, I’m sure at some point she will (hey, it could happen).
So: Let’s say she asks for sex. Recommended course of action? Oblige? Deny? Tell her to strip right there and then get after it? Or, have sex but such that she isn’t really satisfied? Or something else I haven’t mentioned?
Given our past history, I’m also kinda waiting for the ‘why haven’t you asked to have sex in [however long]?’ What would be a good response?
I'm a little bit different. I'd not give her sex until she is fully committed to you because you'll get reattached and she'll know she still has you by the balls and then you'll feel like you were used (you were) and be upset and most LBS's will be laying covert contracts quicker than a union stonemason.
A good response would be "I'm just not in the mood at the moment, thanks" or if you want to piss her off say "I have to go rearrange my sock drawer". What would you tell any woman who isn't in love with you if you didn't want to have sex with her?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I'd not give her sex until she is fully committed to you because you'll get reattached and she'll know she still has you by the balls
Literally.
I dunno, but thanks for the input ovrr. For me, I’d want to have sex, but not ascribe a whole lot of meaning to it—what I’ve mentioned previously is have it be like a live-in GF or a one-night stand.
But I don’t think I’m strong enough yet to just have sex and shake it off emotionally.
/Late-night journaling before last-minute email and bed, only to hit it again early in the AM
I thing I need to work on with respect to detachment is not responding to her text messages right away. It’s an ingrained habit that when I see “[W] Cell—iMessage,” to swipe or open to see what it is about. Especially nowadays when there isn’t as much communication during the day. In my settings for her text messages, I disabled read receipts, so I believe they will now say ‘delivered.’ Maybe—not a tech guy. If it’s really that important, I’m sure she can call, or email me on my work email (I told her as much before YS was born).
Really getting into doing the push-ups—knocking 20 or so out before I get in the car to go home helps with blood flow, energy level, and overall mood. Need to keep this up. The thought occurred to me—don’t stop at 20, keep going until your arms feel like Jell-O. Might be the plan for tomorrow. What has also helped my finish the push-ups, is positive self-talk and self-imagery. That there is some lovely young lady (W 2.0 or someone else) underneath me during each push up and that I need to finish strong and imagine her saying my name each time saying ‘more faster deeper keep going don’t stop please sighhhhhh ahhhhhhhh.’ Man that would be nice when that will be a reality again.
A former IC would talk about accentuating the positive, and I’ve also seen here and other places the importance of positive self-talk. This is something that I need to work on, and keep up.
As I was walking YS around to get him to fall asleep, the thoughts occurred to me: I am worthy, and when I’m at my best, I’m pretty amazing and have quite a bit to offer.
In response to my earlier post about when W will ask for sex: I have to continue to believe that I am a prize TO SOMEONE. That there has to be a woman out there (W 2.0, or maybe someone else) who can / will see my gifts and talents, and want to build a life with me and sleep with me. I’m sure that there has to be at least ONE OTHER WOMAN out there who right now wants the chance to be with me, f*** me and be f***** by me, and that I WILL make her feel pretty lucky and special, and that she WILL make me feel pretty lucky and special. Honestly? Can’t wait to meet her, whoever she is. Whether or not she sleeps under the same roof and in the same bed as me.
I gotta be honest, the journaling here in the forums has been immensely helpful, and I can only imagine how much different of a place I would be in right now without the chance to write, think and be in dialogue. Thank you to all in the forums for your feedback, help and prayers.
So: Let’s say she asks for sex. Recommended course of action? Oblige? Deny? Tell her to strip right there and then get after it? Or, have sex but such that she isn’t really satisfied? Or something else I haven’t mentioned?
Given our past history, I’m also kinda waiting for the ‘why haven’t you asked to have sex in [however long]?’ What would be a good response?
Michele actually does address this in DR. If I remember right, in a nutshell she says it's fine to continue having sex as long as you don't have expectations that it means anything has changed, because sex in itself has certainly not ever brought a WAS back to the M. She goes on to say if you think it will affect you negatively, then don't do it. So she kind of leaves it up to the LBS to decide if it's OK or not. In MC my ex said she loved the sex and wanted to resume having it, so we did. We kept it up until she moved out. It was strange and awkward though, more like physical gratification than anything else.
Originally Posted by Bo562
Really getting into doing the push-ups—knocking 20 or so out before I get in the car to go home helps with blood flow, energy level, and overall mood.
Have you tried CrossFit? If you like pushups I bet you would love CrossFit. CrossFit has made me a huge fan of bodyweight movements- situps, pushups, handstand pushups, pullups, muscle-ups, ring dips, etc. An awesome side benefit of it is it is a very social environment. You'll meet new people of both sexes, and there are plenty of opportunities to do stuff with them outside of the box/gym as well.
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In response to my earlier post about when W will ask for sex: I have to continue to believe that I am a prize TO SOMEONE. That there has to be a woman out there (W 2.0, or maybe someone else) who can / will see my gifts and talents, and want to build a life with me and sleep with me. I’m sure that there has to be at least ONE OTHER WOMAN out there who right now wants the chance to be with me
Oh believe me there are plenty. We talk about how WAS's almost always affair down, well LBS's tend to upgrade. They usually find someone that is more attractive and more put together than their WAS was. I would have stayed with my ex for life had I been given the opportunity, but I wasn't. So I moved on and my current GF is half her age, sweet, thinks I hung the moon, and looks like a Playboy centerfold. Like the saying goes, when life hands you lemons then make lemonade, LOL!
So I moved on and my current GF is half her age, sweet, thinks I hung the moon, and looks like a Playboy centerfold. Like the saying goes, when life hands you lemons then make lemonade, LOL!
I've heard you say this a few times and it is encouraging for those of us with little hope (despite the OTHER things you say repeatedly about hope). The way you phrased it this time, about how she thinks you hung the moon, it almost seems like there might be something about the women with whom the LBS ends up. Maybe they are even MORE impressed that such a good person could have been hurt the way they were. Almost like, if you're "hard to get" then you're desirable, while if other women don't want you then you're less desirable in the eyes of other women, EXCEPT when the other woman is perceived by women as being silly to have given you up and freed you to be with the new one. So if a decent lady comes along and understands that you were left behind for what appear to be relatively minor issues (which you worked on in the meantime), then you become desirable in a way that makes it impossible for them to keep their hands off of you.
Not sure what Sandi thinks about that, but it fits with what she says about how the WW becomes jealous when she realizes that the LBH is now available to excellent women who make WW look like a total fool.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
The way you phrased it this time, about how she thinks you hung the moon, it almost seems like there might be something about the women with whom the LBS ends up. Maybe they are even MORE impressed that such a good person could have been hurt the way they were. Almost like, if you're "hard to get" then you're desirable, while if other women don't want you then you're less desirable in the eyes of other women, EXCEPT when the other woman is perceived by women as being silly to have given you up and freed you to be with the new one. So if a decent lady comes along and understands that you were left behind for what appear to be relatively minor issues (which you worked on in the meantime), then you become desirable in a way that makes it impossible for them to keep their hands off of you.
Very interesting thoughts. You know, honestly I have not talked about my marriage much (and in most cases, at all) to anyone I dated after S and here's why- one of the first (maybe the first) women I went out with after S asked me a lot of questions about my S and D and I explained things in great depth to her thinking she wanted clarity and to make sure I wasn't looking to bail on the next R. But then later she told me that I talked "so much" about it that she feared I was still attached to the ex and not ready for a new R. Lesson learned! From that point on I just didn't talk about it. If anyone asked I was just super brief, saying something like "we grew apart, she left, and that is now in the past and I want to focus on my future." Usually that was all it took, it wasn't brought up again.
I've never had confidence or self-esteem issues except for a few months after BD, and I got that back pretty quickly. A lot of the ladies I dated said that's what they found attractive, that I was strong, confident, a gentleman. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but rather just explain the traits that those women seemed to be looking for. You probably remember I mentioned before that I had trouble getting women my age to meet, so I ended up dating younger women as they were much more willing and available. And they routinely told me how guys their age had no respect for women, were very selfish, expected women to pay part (OR ALL!) of the meals or movie or whatever and fully expected sex right away. So meeting someone who was selfless and really listened to them and was kind to them and not distracted by a phone or video game was a breath of fresh air.
One funny thing is this one woman I dated flat-out called me a liar when I told her I had only been with my ex while we were married. She told me that men aren't and cannot be monogamous! I was like, "why would I lie about that?" I told her I just wasn't wired that way, I had no interest in having sex with multiple women. One good woman is just fine with me. She never did believe me, would bring it up now and then and ask if I "was ready to tell the truth." It's kind of aggravating to keep getting told you're a liar, so I quit seeing her, LOL!
Another amusing story, one woman refused to believe I was divorced. Thought I was having an affair with her. I invited her to my house (it's pretty obvious I'm not sharing my bedroom or bathroom with anyone), she accepted, and I showed her the D paperwork. I think she finally believed me after that, haha!
I know a lot of you miss sex. I'll just flat out tell you that after my D and during my dating I had some seriously wild sex escapades. I mean it was like "Dear Hustler, I never thought I would be writing you but..." kind of stuff. Things that would make a porn star blush. And in places you've probably only fantasized about. And we're talking beautiful, sexy women too. My sex life during M was pretty plain vanilla because my ex liked it that way, she's a creature of routine. I'm very adventurous though, and I learned there are a lot of adventurous women out there that absolutely love an adventurous man. So yeah, I had some WILD times. I still do with my GF, we have a very active sex life. So whenever I read LBH's talking about how much they wish their wife would have pity sex with them I think "oh man if you only knew what is out there for the taking, you wouldn't be wasting your time begging for crumbs."
