Whirlwind of Hurt 5

[Bo562]

I would also add to ‘what do you want her to be thinking?’—what does she see in him?

[Twofeet]

I went to IC yesterday. I had taken some of my posts from here and cleaned them up and wrote some additional things and read it to her. It was pretty hard as I was crying so much I had to stop because I couldn't see the page.
She says that I am not depressed, rather the gift that this whole D process has given me is that I can now process my emotions internally and externally. Hence, when W teared up the other day and I started tearing up it just completely baffled her that I could open up emotionally over her shedding a few tears. As she has said, she would bawl her eyes out and I would just look at her just stone cold (she would use a term that I think would identify me so I wont repeat it here). Anyway IC says I am like an infant just learning to walk right now, so everything is just coming out of me and I am learning to process these emotions. She says my interpersonal communication and emotional intelligence has greatly improved and these emotions are apart of it. We talked about not forgetting about boundaries especially with getting into R talks with W. IC says I am not plan b so stop thinking that. IC says that I need to stop all pursuit with W or any thought of pursuit with W. IC says you know if W came back for reconciliation you would know if it was genuine or not. IC says you know you wouldn't accept being plan b. We talked about how I wondered what I did to cause some of this. IC says relationships aren't cause and effect. She said you both were doing things together and to each other at various moments in your R that resulted in the present. IC said knowing and counseling both W and I, a big part of our mistake to get to where we are at is that we were both lacking in the proper communication skills a healthy R needs. IC said and have learned a lot of this now and I am improving. W is not, but IC hopes someday she will get there. IC does faith based C if requested so I talk to IC how I used to just pray everyday to not get a D. I said now while I do pray that D doesn't happen and I do pray for reconciliation, I also pray that if God doesn't will it then just give me strength to carry on and protect my children. I tell IC how I pray everyday for internal strength and guidance and how I have been praying that W with soften her heart to God. W used to be pretty religious and now she is not and I pray that he can find a way back into her life for her own benefit.

Now what also happened yesterday is that W called and I know R2C said don't talk to her, but I just wanted to confront it head on and move on. So when she called she started some idle chit chat which I honestly cannot even remember what it was about. Eventually, I said I am pretty busy and I need to go soon is there something you specifically called about. She said she called about the kids school. She isn't sure she can afford to keep paying it. She can finish out the school year, but beyond that we have to talk this summer. I tell her I am disappointed. I don't want to keep moving the kids around, they never get to adjust. S3 is doing awesome at the childcare center at the private school and now we would have to go back and put him in another crappy daycare. I say W you remember how badly he struggled with the first 2 centers we put him in when we moved here. You want to start that hunt/process all over again. Plus all 3 kids are in one location. She says she is definitely worried about it. I say W so what are your alternatives? What solutions have you thought of? She says none other than public school. I say have you asked your parents for assistance. She says she already has a loan out from her parents and she isn't going to ask them for help. She doesn't want their money. She wants to know if I can get financial assistance from the school since I am claiming the children as dependents. I tell her nothing can be done until there is a decree then I can see what is available, but I think my income is probably too high to get any grants. She says public school is the next option. I say there is a good elementary close to my house and there is one in the next district and both are in the same town. W says I don't like those school districts at the HS level, I think I want to put the kids in my school district. I tell her no I am putting my foot down on that. She asks why. I say we live and work in this community, and we send our kids to a private school in this community. You decided to move away to the to town closer to the city while you work here. I am not driving the kids all the way out there to drop them off at school and go to work. That is over 1 hour round trip. W says I don't want to drop kids off at a school by your house its out of my way. I tell W its no further out of your way then their private school because its over by their private school. I tell W look we have to stop this we are about to get in a fight over something that hasn't happened yet. I say we have joint custody and we have to work these solutions out together. I tell W we will cross that bridge when we get there. We can always put them in public school and move them back into private school for HS. She says she wont do that because they will have established friends and she doesn't want to move them around to different schools and break up friendships. I just can't reason with her anymore this is just stupid. She wants to break up their established friendships now, but not when they get to HS when it seems that for most youths that this is a reset and everyone kind of starts over again. I dunno. Anyway, I say why are we even discussing HS at this point, we only have 2 in elementary. She says she is worried and I validate which is easy to do because I am very worried as well. Its getting to the point in the conversation that I just need to go, but I can't help myself and I need some resolution for this problem. I am prepared to piss of W and I say W during our MR I use to use various budget programs, I find that one I really liked had a bunch of free online classes and a good philosophy to follow. I still use it now that we are S and its helped me stay a float. You might consider looking into it. I can hear the nonverbal communication through the phone. I can tell she is angry because she needs to budget, but doesn't want to. I say ok well I really gotta run now, bye.

Now that I have had time to let it sit and stew I am pretty angry about this. I had mentioned to my IC before this convo how there is no clean break and W gets to make poor decisions and I have to get dragged through the mud. Her poor decisions affect not only me, but most importantly our kids. Well now I am going to have to budget to lawyer up down the road just in case push comes to shove. Maybe she had planned this sh!t all along. I guess if she bails on the kids tuition she can finance that fancy SUV she has been wanting. My spidey senses were going off when she moved to the town closer to the city when she could have gotten the same quality of home she has now for 50k less than what she paid for. I guess I saw this potential storm brewing. Hopefully it doesn't get to that point. Well if she decides to try pull the kids out of private school this summer I can always go have a talk with her parents. I am prepared to risk ruining my relationship if it can benefit my kids. I really don't want to go that route, but I am prepared to go as far as I need to. The private school is in the decree, but it may not be enforceable. To protect yourself and your kids document everything. Its silly that it can get to that point, and I really hope it doesn't, but it is what it is.

Our school convo was back and forth, but it is easy to remember the details of what I said. So while it appears to be a 1 way convo it was not.

[Ready2Change]

.....yesterday is that W called and I know R2C said don't talk to her, but....

Just things to think about:

1) Was there anything in the conversation that was urgent?

2) If you let it go to voicemail, would you have more time to process what she had to say?

3) Is there a chance for an argument?

I am sure I could list off other things. Just weigh the pros/cons of the convos and decide which method you should use. Emails/Text/Phone/In person.....through the lawyers.




In my divorce agreement with my X, Our child costs are split as a ratio of our incomes. I would believe this is common. Lets say for arguments sake that you both make the same income, well then the tuition cost should be split 50/50.


I am a firm believer in joint decisions and agreements. You both made the decision for private school. To break this, I would believe it takes both of you. Hold her to the agreement. Do this with the legal system. Hold her accountable for the cost. This is her testing you.


New items will come up. Make joint decisions.

[Ready2Change]

Please read these post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2826689#Post2826689
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2826945


I have not followed his thread. It may be a wise choice for you to read it start to end.

[AnotherStander]

TF, that sounds like a wise IC you have there that is offering advice that aligns well with DB'ing.

[Twofeet]

R2C,

Ours is 60/40 split her being 60. Down the road if I can make things happen on my end with my side biz we may someday be able to get to 50/50. For me financially I would love that. The convo wasn't urgent, and was pretty amicable with no arguments. I headed any potential arguments of at the pass. However, what I realized is that I should have just put it off. D isn't final yet, she is just relaying info and her fears, and trying to manipulate me. If things have to be battled out, it will be done down the road after D is final. I will stand up to her and force this as far as I legally can... when the time comes. Now is not that time. The plan was joint decisions, but she seems to be changing the plan or thinking about changing the plan as she goes. What about you and your XW? I thought you said something about how you stopped co-parenting.

I am really starting to understand my problem. I am too emotionally involved with her and it allows me to get played like a fiddle by W. It all happening to me like you all say, the details might be slightly different but the gist of it is there. The reality of it happening is almost hard to swallow. My problem is that I am not doing what I am repeating being told to do.

Let her go.


Two final notes; I do interact with women. Mostly through my work and industry related functions. Right now is a bit quiet due to the year. However, a group of customers who are all women had me come over to their place today to give me an early Christmas gift. When my W asks about advice on this bar or that restaurant I give her the info I get from my connections. W knows that the ones who are in the know on this stuff are almost always women. However, I should up my game and get more practice interacting the the opposite sex.

Lastly, I am going to bail early to go pick up the kids and go grocery shopping. We are going to get supplies to build a gingerbread house. Not my normal thing, but they have been begging me to do it. Should be fun.

[Again18]

Wow TF you were doing great for a while but now it's you you you. You are hoping beyond hope that she is just going to kick that door down and say I'm sorry I really don't want a divorce. I bet she probably doesn't want to divorce but you make it impossible for her to actually process what she's doing. We tell you don't answer the damn phone and you have an excuse every time. Your IC is a genius because she knows exactly what your wife is thinking, oh wait she can't know that. You are plan B doesn't matter if your IC says so or not you make it possible for your wife to continue on knowing she has a great big safety net to fall into, hell you even told her that. TF you have to detach, reread DB and then read it again. You have to stop pursuing and when you answer that phone you are pursuing and she knows it. When she says I can't afford to pay for school all you had to do is say I'm sorry for that, gotta go. Good luck TF but so far that is all you got. Detach let her go that is the only way you possibly can get her back. It's hard I KNOW THAT IT'S HARD I've been there and I've got the T-shirt and I've got my wife still.

[Ready2Change]

R2C,What about you and your XW? I thought you said something about how you stopped co-parenting.

Full blown custody battle. No co-parenting. I tried for several years. I figured she would get over the anger. Nope. Boundaries and Emails worked for me.

Here is part of an email exchange a few years after D was finalized:

It appears there is some confusion regarding this fathers day. I would like to reach a mothers day / fathers day agreement with you.

I was talking to the children about fathers day and they all said "Mom said she doesn't want us to be with you on fathers day and there is nothing in the paperwork." In the past, you have dropped the kids off the night before at 6p and I dropped them back off at 6p. I did check the divorce agreement and there is nothing regarding Fathers day or Mothers day.

I see two options that are best for our children and allow them to spend mothers day/ fathers day with the appropriate parent:

1) 24 hour option --> 8:30p the night before to 8:30p the night of
2) 11.5 hour option --> 9a the day of to 8:30p the day of

Do either of these sound good to you? If not, do you have another suggestion?

If I don't hear back from you by 5p today, I will initiate the mediation process to help us come to resolution.

Thanks for you attention to this matter.

Best Regards,

I searched the paperwork last week and saw nothing regarding Mother's/Father's Day. I told the kids that we would stop by so that they could see you and then we' head to celebrate with my dad.

Yes, searching the paperwork will not give you the answer to my question. Searching your core values will. I have spoken with each of the children and they all expressed their deep desires to share mothers day with you and fathers day with me. We can do the right thing for our kids and allow them to spend fathers day with me and mothers day with you. Or we can fall back on legal paperwork. Your choice. I just suggest making the right choice for the right reasons.

If you change your mind before 1p tomorrow (That will give you ample time to speak with the children and hear their true feelings as well as consult anyone else) , let me know and we can work out the exchange times.

If I don't hear back from you, I will consider this matter closed (even though I don't think it is the right choice) and we will stick to the normal parenting schedule on mothers day and fathers day from this point forward.

Best Regards,

There is no way I would have had that convo on the phone or face to face.

4 or 5 more emails and she made the right choice.

[Twofeet]

Wow TF you were doing great for a while but now it's you you you. You are hoping beyond hope that she is just going to kick that door down and say I'm sorry I really don't want a divorce. I bet she probably doesn't want to divorce but you make it impossible for her to actually process what she's doing. We tell you don't answer the damn phone and you have an excuse every time. Your IC is a genius because she knows exactly what your wife is thinking, oh wait she can't know that. You are plan B doesn't matter if your IC says so or not you make it possible for your wife to continue on knowing she has a great big safety net to fall into, hell you even told her that. TF you have to detach, reread DB and then read it again. You have to stop pursuing and when you answer that phone you are pursuing and she knows it. When she says I can't afford to pay for school all you had to do is say I'm sorry for that, gotta go. Good luck TF but so far that is all you got. Detach let her go that is the only way you possibly can get her back. It's hard I KNOW THAT IT'S HARD I've been there and I've got the T-shirt and I've got my wife still.

Ok so I am a bit confused here and I need help. So don't talk unless its about kids or finances, ok got it. She wants to talk kids tuition. Some say no don't talk she is manipulating you. Some say talk just don't let it effect your PMA. Well she hasn't paid her portion of the kids tuition in 3 months and she wants to talk about it. So at that point in time I'm worried she isn't going to pay and try to rip the kids out of school mid year, because clearly her actions show she has the kids best interests at heart. So before we had the convo, how long do I just ignore the problem. It's not like it's going to go away. Seriously, Again18 I feel like I am not getting something here.

Should I literally just stop all contact with her?

Also in another post you said I give too many quick responses. I didn't understand that comment, can you explain it further?

I bet she probably doesn't want to divorce but you make it impossible for her to actually process what she's doing.

I get wanting to give me the 2x4, but this is B.S. and you know it. You have sage advice and I respect you, but I feel like a line is being crossed here. Please don't do it again.

[Twofeet]

There is no way I would have had that convo on the phone or face to face.

4 or 5 more emails and she made the right choice.

Thanks R2C. I thought we could have conversations, but it looks like I might be a bit foolish in that regard. Looks like email is going to be the safe bet.