I think that my W is too stubborn too to every admit she was wrong. Maybe she will surprise me sometime down the road, but I'm not expecting it. She needs to be right and when that is of the utmost importance, it's hard to overcome.
seems like every single LBH feels the exact same way about their WW. in my sitch my WW was both stubborn and had to be right from day one. I wonder if for some they aren't that way until WW hits them.
Originally Posted by Wanted1
I really question whether me representing the truth and representing all of the wrongs my WW has done to me and our family is a big reason why she wants to leave.
we LBH's definitely represent a HUGE pressure point for our WWs but it's speculative at best to wonder how so. that we are universally some kind of "kryptonotic repellant" to them seems certain. I'd guess that per WW they could not even explain it to us if we asked them.
Something that I am struggling with, and it's contributing towards my descent is that whenever the opportunity to talk to WW comes up, I go on the offensive. Not as angrily as I used to and I do not throw her decisions she has made in her face anymore, but still find myself telling her that I don't intend on living like this, and talk about our possible D plans (I don't want it, but I don't know what else to say because it will sound like R talk and pursuit).
I don't bring up OM and I plan my and D4 future without WW, because that is what the reality is fast becoming.
When the opportunity to talk comes up again, should I just listen and validate? Do not even begin to give my viewpoints on all of this? How can or should I because it seems like after every serious conversation about our sitch we continue our march towards D.
Pain18...yep listen and validate, if disrespectful walk. Never initiate and your view does not matter. While she is with OM the quicker you get gone the better. You and D4 are it now.
Pain18...yep listen and validate, if disrespectful walk. Never initiate and your view does not matter. While she is with OM the quicker you get gone the better. You and D4 are it now.
So you don't see her at grandkid birthday parties or your kids' birthday parties or anything, huh?
No grandkids as of yet and my daughter lives a 16 hour drive away. For S24's birthdays etc and all holidays up until this Christmas he spends them with me. This year for the first time since she left, he'll be spending Christmas eve and day with his mother.
My ex does I think go to pretty long lengths to avoid me although I'm quite confident that S24 and common acquaintances feed her information at her request. I occasionally hear about her, never from her beyond a surprise "Merry Christmas" one line email a few weeks ago in response to me forwarding some mis-delivered mail.
While I wish she would step up and assist with parenting, she doesn't but at 24 my son doesn't need a lot.
Originally Posted by Wanted1
I do wonder if that's why a lot of WW do leave. Or maybe, I should say, I really question whether me representing the truth and representing all of the wrongs my WW has done to me and our family is a big reason why she wants to leave.
I think you need to turn that question upside down. From my own limited experience plus a lot of reading it is my belief that a WW is not running from anything but rather towards something. Sure, they may talk us down to justify it to themselves often making up foo-foo dust stories, but infidelity is by it's very nature a very selfish act.
As the behind spouse, you could I suppose try to dance all nice and pretty and look better than OM/OW and I certainly did my best at that to little or no avail. But then you have a situation where the next sparkly tvrd that comes along will attract them away again. Or you can move on with your life, let them go off on their own and then if they crash and burn hard enough to look around - and that "hard enough" undoubtedly varies a lot from person to person - they may look back towards what they had. That's when the really tough choice needs to be made of if you want them back.
The choice is always that of the BS on what course they themselves follow. Few of the BS who've "thrown in the towel" and moved on to new lives seem to regret their choices from what I gather.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
The choice is always that of the BS on what course they themselves follow. Few of the BS who've "thrown in the towel" and moved on to new lives seem to regret their choices from what I gather.
does the WW feel an overwhelming amount of guilt to the point that they cannot communicate about what is happening
I'm going to try to answer this at face value, then I'll respond to your sitch.
Here's the thing that so many H's can't seem to grasp. While she remains wayward, the WW feels very little guilt. Let's break this down into two parts. Part 1 is before the WW's genuine remorse, and part 2 is after remorse.
First, look at the WW before genuine remorse hits. She knows right from wrong, and the fact that she may not look you in the eyes could indicate that she knows she is/was lying, betraying, cheating, disrespecting, etc. There is likely some degree of guilt, just b/c she knows it is wrong to do these things. But it's not to the degree the H might assume or expect she should feel. The WW's mindset tells her she's justified. (Remember, she has been angry a long time, she just tried to keep it controlled). As long as she's blaming her H, why would she feel overcome with guilt? She may even go as far to verbally tell her family she didn't want anyone to get hurt, and let's be BFF's. The WW looks at it as if the H and kids were wounded in the fallout. Pretty cold, huh? This is not the girl you married. So, the short answer to your question of the WW feeling an overwhelming amount of guilt to the point that she cannot communicate about what's happening...….is, "no". It's not due to overwhelming feelings of guilt.
Now let's look at the WW after she genuinely feels sorrow and regret for her deceit, betrayal, disrespect, destruction, etc. She takes full responsibility for her actions, She no longer justifies anything she did, and she doesn't blame her H for her A, etc. She can forgive her H for things in their past, and she let's go of the resentment. It is true repentance for her, which means she changes her ways. She should humbly apologize to her H. However, that's not to say she will. Is she eager to discuss everything with her H? Probably not. She is dealing with feelings of shame, embarrassment, self-loathing, humility, etc.
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like in my case or is the desire to communicate to save what is slipping away make it a necessity to talk with her partner to try and R?
I don't know how to answer this ^^^^^^^, b/c I'm not sure what you are asking. You've said she's always had trouble communicating. This has been a really big problem in the MR. So, now you don't understand why she can't open up and discuss what is happening? Let me tell you like this...…….if the OM is anywhere in the picture...….that cancels out everything. She can't have another guy in her head and desire to save her M at the same time. It's not going to happen.
Here's what I think. You are wanting her to tell you where the MR stands. You want to find a logical reason for why she's not discussing it. You see working things out (in any problem) by talking about it. If there's no discussion, you are lost as what to do. You want her to take the lead.
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She has showed a lot of signs that she is coming around but the only convo has come after a few drinks. I'm not taking the bait of whether it's a legit attempt or a drunken Plan B game.
"Coming around" how? Is she still in contact with OM?
When was the last time she had a serious conversation with you, without a few drinks in her?
Are you still going home after work and drinking with her?
You say she tends to open up when she's drinking. What does she talk about? Is this when she gets so emotional and tells you she is sorry for hurting you? Does she remember the next day what was said when she was drinking?
Didn't she ask you to attend an IC session with her? Have you?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The choice is always that of the BS on what course they themselves follow. Few of the BS who've "thrown in the towel" and moved on to new lives seem to regret their choices from what I gather.
Like giving up too soon?
I'm by no means trying to speak for him, but I took this as we as the LBS finally relenting and accepting D and then doing the work to move on and at that point, if the WW does try to come back, a lot of LBS have moved on enough to not be interested in R.
I can see that happening in my case. I think once I move on, if I'm in a new R with an incredible woman who treats me right, why the he$$ would I want to go back and give her a second chance when she can't find it within herself to give me one right now?
I'm sort of in 'throw in the towel' mode. I feel like I've tried to do everything in my power to salvage this and to no avail. I'm letting the process work now, instead of actively trying to save my M. I'm gonna set back and do nothing.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
I think once I move on, if I'm in a new R with an incredible woman who treats me right, why the he$$ would I want to go back and give her a second chance when she can't find it within herself to give me one right now?
Wanted you are so desperately trying to get a second chance with a W who has cheated on you 3 times. Do you not see that it should be the other way around? What did you do to her that justified 3 affairs and two with your friends? Something for IC.
