DB again... too late or last strike

[Did]

W continues to send me stuff poetry about growth patience and desire on Instagram saying patience is everything. Multiple pictures of D4. When she picked up D4 we gave space for her and babysitter to get to know each other. To say bye w got on my lap and hugged me sexually. I should deny these intimate touches I suppose.

I feel like I need to repeat / Restablish boundaries. If you are admittedly inconsistent, selfish I can not have you in my life. I do not want to talk. You are choosing to be in this place and I refuse to have toxic relationships in my life.

Or just say nothing as she continues to show small signs of pursuit. NC obviously works with her.

The question is when to actually talk if she wants to.

She says she feels like she has to be selfish. Or she is inconsistent with her feelings. I think these are choices and she is putting herself in a victim role. She doesn’t have to be selfish or go with her feelings up and down all the time she could make decisions and be a good partner if she wanted to. Trauma or not...Right?

I definitely can not have her in my life when she is inconsistent. And I just need to think of us as over and continue 180s. Focus on me. I say that but when she comes around I have a really hard time keeping her out of my thoughts. My sleep is all fd up again.

[Davide]

Less words. More actions. Don't engage.

[Ginger1]

Oh my did. You come to us saying how you can’t be with her because her behavior is so inconsistent, but so is yours!

I have to say your dynamic/relationship is super unhealthy.

She wants to be selfish, great, let her go be. Because she is being horribly selfish right now. And it’s cruel. And you are so codependent, you just follow her lead and what she does dictates your moves and emotions.

You don’t have to reaestablish verbal boundaries. You broke your own boundaries with actions, by engaging with her. Words are useless. Show with actions .

Let her send whatever she does, you ignore it unless it has to do with the safety and well being of your daughter.

She wants to come at you with relationship talk? You tell her you are ready to talk when she is ready to recommit to working on your marriage and working on herself.until then, you have nothing to say. Then walk away.

In the meantime you have lots and lots of work to do on your codependency tendencies. You’ll never regret that work, no matter what the outcome.

I do not discount the difficulty in all of this. But if you want effective and change and personal growth and healthy relationships moving forwRd, whether with her or someone else, all this work needs to be done

[Did]

Ginger thanks i agree - codependent. I will bring this up at my Ic tomorrow. The only time I feel like she doesn’t influence me is when I focus on the break up. Moving on without her. Mark Manson has a good article about getting dumped. And every time you think of your ex you say out loud weakness leaving the body. I was doing that a week or two ago.

Yes the dynamic is unhealthy I have to drop the rope / cut the cord. Still being married and having a daughter the connection is there. I have a feeling she’s going to pursue sex in the next week or two. Say no unless you’re ready to recommit to working on our relationship and marriage. No sex no discussion. She will view this is an ultimatum and control. Or I could just have the great sex then continue NC although I will obliviously be reattached. Better we have sex than have sex with others?

Whether I want the sex or lot maybe better to just be unavailable. And continue to focus on me.

In reality she’s so difficult and even though there has been some progress will I lead my best life with this woman? Hard to say yes but there is family and if we were less dependent I should be able to lead my best life with or without her.

Thanks for all your time!

[ovrrnbw]

Don't look for ways to justify having sex with her like when you said:

Better we have sex than have sex with others?

Don't let it get close enough to where she is trying to tempt you with sex. Limit your interactions. And if you find yourself in that spot where she is trying to seduce you just get up and leave.

And every time you think of your ex you say out loud weakness leaving the body. I was doing that a week or two ago.

Did that help?

[Adam04]

Hey Did,

Sorry about your Sitch. Just gonna share my thoughts / ask some questions as a fellow LBS.

Ginger thanks i agree - codependent. I will bring this up at my Ic tomorrow. The only time I feel like she doesn’t influence me is when I focus on the break up. Moving on without her.

Is this focus all the time, and do you mean detaching when you focus on break up and moving on? If not, why do you let your guard down or why can't you expand / change your feelings so that no matter what you think about, that influence is no longer there? Seems she has too much control over you and somewhere you have to find beginnings on things you

I have a feeling she’s going to pursue sex in the next week or two. Say no unless you’re ready to recommit to working on our relationship and marriage. No sex no discussion. She will view this is an ultimatum and control. Or I could just have the great sex then continue NC although I will obliviously be reattached. Better we have sex than have sex with others?

Seems controlling to me too. may help the fantasy, but hurt the reality.

Whether I want the sex or lot maybe better to just be unavailable. And continue to focus on me.

focus is drilling down to what? This could be tunnel vision if your mind is on sex with her.

[Ginger1]

Did, what happened the last time you had sex? You misinterpreted that as some sort of piecing, which it wasn’t. Don’t put yourself through that again. This woman sure knows how to get her hooks in you just enough to get what she wants without recommitting

[sandi2]

What to do... W says she has been holding back a lot and really been missing me. Asked me to talk which we did.

She said she is just not as emotionally available as I am. And she is in a place where she feels she needs to be selfish because her whole life including our marriage she gave and never took. I held back the anger of paying for her life while she is being selfish. Tried to validate when I could. I think this is fine to an extent but unhealthy if too much. Moderation...

She also mentioned something 15 months ago I looked at her phone and saw setting intense stuff full frontal to om1. When seeing this I called her mom and told her what she was doing. I was definitely very hurt and angry but my intention was to get her help. I was reading these really sexual messages to her mom. And this guy was a piece of sht. Anyway I told w that our truths can be different and a healthy way of disagreeing and arguing is to respect each other’s opinions not try to change them. I validated it was definitely wrong of me and I understand your perception that you believe I just wanted to shame or hurt you. My perception is different but that doesn’t make you wrong. That’s your truth and I’m sorry.

Boundaries - Told her the inconsistency is unhealthy and I refuse to have toxic relationships in my life. I refuse to let anyone stop me from reaching my potential. And I do not want to hear about other men.
I did apologize for repeating old patterns and being too focused on her when we were dating a few weeks ago. And I said it would not happen again. We talked about the love and relationship we had being unhealthy even though it feels good to be so close with someone to be healthy you need to have boundaries And your own separate lives and the relationship being a separate thing altogether.

Overall the conversation went well I’m sure I made a bunch of mistakes. Like even having the conversation in the first place. But she did reach out. She did seem to respect my opinions and said the difference is that I have read and done therapy and my opinions aren’t just me trying to control. I told her my opinions are usually based on instincts which are many times correct and serve us well but not in our relationship it seems. I told her I do not want to control her.

But she did reach out.

Do you know how to say, "No"? This woman is not reaching out. She is creating an opportunity to play you. She is not trying to work on the MR. The only type of reaching out she is doing is strictly selfish. She is doing nothing more than tightening the emotional rope around you.

Why were you engaging with her? The next time she wants to "talk", tell her you are not interested in more talks. Then shut it down right then & there, or she'll have you drawn into more talking. After all this time, and after all the talks the two of you have had...….nothing has been resolved. She's still just as selfish as ever, and even believes she deserves to be selfish.

All this being said I don’t see any change

No joke! Why is that a surprise? There is a reason we say no talks. As long as she is showing no change, there should no nothing to discuss.

To say bye w got on my lap and hugged me sexually. I should deny these intimate touches I suppose.

You think?! Come on! You are suppose to be separated! Why were you even spending time with her while D4 and babysitter were doing their thing? Look, every time you allow your W to wrap you around her little finger, it sets you all the way back to the starting line again. Why can you not see how she uses sex to manipulate you and keep you emotionally enmeshed with all her drama? You had started sounding so much better...…..and next thing I know...…..she's crawling up in your lap to hug you sexually to say bye. This was the perfect opportunity to literally unwrap her body from yours and tell her thanks but no thanks.

IDK, maybe men can't see it, but she was showing you how easy it was for her to dominate you whenever she chooses. You meant no more than her toy at the moment.

I did apologize for repeating old patterns and being too focused on her when we were dating a few weeks ago.

Please stop with this kind ^^^^^^^ of stuff. Just stop it. Stop all the talking. If she asks to talk, run like blazes.

[AnotherStander]

Oh my did. You come to us saying how you can’t be with her because her behavior is so inconsistent, but so is yours!

I have to say your dynamic/relationship is super unhealthy.

I was about to post the exact same thing. Did, you let her pull you in and you have these long talks that go nowhere and accomplish nothing, then you spend a few hours or maybe a day "detaching" (ha!) and "going dark" (HA!) and then you're right back in her net floundering around. "Going dark" does not mean "stop replying to texts for a few hours or a day before resuming previous attached behavior". Going dark is not a few hours or a few days or even a few weeks. It is months and months and months. My buddy that I've mentioned that reconciled with his girls-gone-wild WW went dark on her for TWO YEARS. You just can't keep doing this where you stop replying to her for a few hours and then engage in a long convo. It makes you look very inconsistent, passive/aggressive and let's her know you are Plan B all the way.

She wants to be selfish, great, let her go be. Because she is being horribly selfish right now. And it’s cruel. And you are so codependent, you just follow her lead and what she does dictates your moves and emotions.

You don’t have to reaestablish verbal boundaries. You broke your own boundaries with actions, by engaging with her. Words are useless. Show with actions .

Let her send whatever she does, you ignore it unless it has to do with the safety and well being of your daughter.

She wants to come at you with relationship talk? You tell her you are ready to talk when she is ready to recommit to working on your marriage and working on herself.until then, you have nothing to say. Then walk away.

^^^YES YES YES^^^

Ginger thanks i agree - codependent.

Let's look at that word- codependent:

A dysfunctional helping relationship where one person supports or enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement. Among the core characteristics of codependency, the most common theme is an excessive reliance on other people for approval and a sense of identity. In its broadest definition, a codependent is someone who cannot function from his or her innate self and whose thinking and behavior is instead organized around another person, or even a process, or substance. In this context, people who are addicted to a substance, like drugs, or a process, like gambling or sex, can also be considered codependent. In its most narrow definition, it requires one person to be physically or psychologically addicted, such as to heroin, and the second person to be psychologically dependent on that behavior.

There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING that sounds good, attractive or beneficial in that description. Is that really who you want "Did" to be? I certainly hope not.

Did, you talk about all this detaching and going dark you're going to do, you do it for a few hours, then you post about some big long convo you and W had. Then you offer up flimsy excuses over why said convo had to happen. Then you get 2x4'd, you agree everyone is right and promise to do better, then repeat the exact same pattern all over again. I get it, this stuff is hard. But here's the thing, it's hardest AT FIRST. The more you stick to your guns the easier it gets. But you've got to START. Because every time you backslide you go right back to the beginning. Yours is not a case of two steps forward and one back (which isn't necessarily bad because forward progress is still being made) but yours is more like one toe forward and one back.

Yes the dynamic is unhealthy I have to drop the rope / cut the cord. Still being married and having a daughter the connection is there.

There is no connection. That's something I think that is causing you a lot of struggles, that mindset that there is something there that you can salvage if only you say or do the right thing/ things. But it's not there, you're grasping at straws. You've got to let her go (for a long time) before having a chance of getting her back.

Or I could just have the great sex then continue NC although I will obliviously be reattached.

CONTINUE NC? When did it ever start??????

Better we have sex than have sex with others?

Michele says it's OK to have sex if you can do it with no expectations. I think in your case it would be very unhealthy because you would have a ton of expectations. And I'm not so sure it's even on the table, I think this is another case of you getting your hopes up over nothing. Detach. GAL.

[SteveLW]

Better we have sex than have sex with others?

Michele says it's OK to have sex if you can do it with no expectations. I think in your case it would be very unhealthy because you would have a ton of expectations. And I'm not so sure it's even on the table, I think this is another case of you getting your hopes up over nothing. Detach. GAL.

AS is dead on the money here. She can't even sit on your lap and hug you without you having expectations.