Dealing with a WW Pt3

[SoTorn]

Unfortunately I let my "anger" portion of grieving get the best of me and had a small tirade towards WW this morning. Ugh. I wasnt yelling, but definitely not DBing. Just letting myself tell her how I feel about what she is doing and what she has done to our family.

[Davide]

The key thing is to learn from your mistakes so that you don't repeat them. And you seem to get that.

I think it can be quite healthy and helpful to be able to air the anger/resentment towards the WAS. Keeping it pent up inside, or denying it is not healthy at all. The trick is not airing it out towards WAS. Go the gym and hit a punching bag, or vent to a close friend (not a common friend with WAS). When you express those things to a WAS it puts more pressure on them and that is never a good thing.

[AnotherStander]

ST, I believe you will get a lot of vets telling you that IHS is never a good idea.

Well a lot of choices after BD amount to picking the lesser of two evils. We do counsel not to leave the marital home, because it should be the WAS that is inconvenienced by S, not the LBS. The marital home is kind of the castle with the bed in the MBR being the throne. BD is emasculating enough without also ceding the throne and castle to the WAS. That said, with time sometimes the LBS has had enough and wants out to save themselves, and the WAS refuses to leave so the LBS decides to. There is nothing wrong with that if they do it for the right reasons and have allowed enough time to pass that they know it's the right thing for them. I would say "enough time" is 6 months post-BD minimum, closer to a year is better. Anything before that and you're probably letting feelings drive your decisions.

Also the LBS has to keep in mind that the WAS may very well invite OP to live in the marital home as soon as the LBS leaves. It has happened here plenty of times. So you've got to ask yourself- can I live with my WAS having sex in MY bed in MY home with OP while I'm slumming on couches or in some roach-infested apartment? I told me ex I was not leaving the house, period. And I meant it, if she wanted to treat me like crap I would have dealt with that in ways other than abandoning my home.

EDIT- forgot to add, with the above said, I do agree that IHS rarely leads to recon. TXHubby had an IHS and eventually reconciled, but that was because he eventually got so sick and tired of his W's BS, lies and cheating that he well and truly dropped the rope in spectacular fashion. After he did they were living under the same roof but not at all as husband and wife. He had absolutely nothing to do with her, treated her like some scummy tenant he couldn't get rid of for legal reasons. He went out and GAL'd and told her nothing. He lost weight, got his confidence back, started dating and enjoying the hell out of life. Suddenly his W saw what she was missing and begged him to take her back. At that point he wasn't even sure he wanted her anymore!

[SoTorn]

ST, I believe you will get a lot of vets telling you that IHS is never a good idea.

Well a lot of choices after BD amount to picking the lesser of two evils. We do counsel not to leave the marital home, because it should be the WAS that is inconvenienced by S, not the LBS. The marital home is kind of the castle with the bed in the MBR being the throne. BD is emasculating enough without also ceding the throne and castle to the WAS. That said, with time sometimes the LBS has had enough and wants out to save themselves, and the WAS refuses to leave so the LBS decides to. There is nothing wrong with that if they do it for the right reasons and have allowed enough time to pass that they know it's the right thing for them. I would say "enough time" is 6 months post-BD minimum, closer to a year is better. Anything before that and you're probably letting feelings drive your decisions.

Also the LBS has to keep in mind that the WAS may very well invite OP to live in the marital home as soon as the LBS leaves. It has happened here plenty of times. So you've got to ask yourself- can I live with my WAS having sex in MY bed in MY home with OP while I'm slumming on couches or in some roach-infested apartment? I told me ex I was not leaving the house, period. And I meant it, if she wanted to treat me like crap I would have dealt with that in ways other than abandoning my home.

EDIT- forgot to add, with the above said, I do agree that IHS rarely leads to recon. TXHubby had an IHS and eventually reconciled, but that was because he eventually got so sick and tired of his W's BS, lies and cheating that he well and truly dropped the rope in spectacular fashion. After he did they were living under the same roof but not at all as husband and wife. He had absolutely nothing to do with her, treated her like some scummy tenant he couldn't get rid of for legal reasons. He went out and GAL'd and told her nothing. He lost weight, got his confidence back, started dating and enjoying the hell out of life. Suddenly his W saw what she was missing and begged him to take her back. At that point he wasn't even sure he wanted her anymore!

I understand this. The A and WW's behavior has been going on since March. What is truly considered BD? The ILYBNILWY speech? That was August. WW moved upstairs September 24th. Actual confirmation of affair was October 1st. So Which one of those is BD?

I honestly feel that I can't effectively detach completely while I am with her. I have had some normal conversations not about R and stuff like that, but today was the first day in a while I have said anything about what she is doing in a while.

The thing is that my WW is not going to be inconvenienced. She makes a ton more than I do. She is financially stable as am I. WW doesnt rely on me for anything besides being the father of her kids. Yes she relies on me paying part of the bills, but that won't hurt her at all. Yes she will be inconvenienced by D because she will have to pay me child support. That will happen either way. I honestly just don't want to leave my kids. I don't want it to affect my kids and it hurts me badly that I have to choose between hurting my kids or protecting myself/getting on with my life.

OM lives in another state and is married. OM is her old manager and has to stay in CA for his job. My WW's work barely let her stay here with her job this last time. I already set down the fact that I want to move out, but WW hasnt done anything about it. I guess I will just continue to DB. I advised WW that I would move if she refinances the home. If she doesnt do that I am not going to because I will need the money to furnish a new home. I don't want anything from the house. Its all mostly just decoration and old furniture. I would take some electronics such as the PC and maybe the TV and stereo.

I don't want the marital bedroom set. The mattress [censored] anyway. WW keeps saying that this isnt about OM. Which is BS. Yes we were having our issues in our M. I can truly and honestly say that I did make mistakes in the past. I put my WW through a time where I was not being truthful and not focusing on M, which lasted several years of off and on conflict. I did not cheat, it was not an EA or PA. I will leave it at that.

But WW stayed with me. Three years ago I made a huge push to change myself. I honestly have changed quite a bit. I worked solidly on my R with my kids. I worked on being a lot better listener and actually understanding WW and the kids. I stopped arguing to win. I did a lot of 180's. I lost a ton of weight. I stopped being an a$$hole honestly and focused on being a lot more empathetic. But October 2017 WW got this new job under her OM. I believe that this started as MLC with my WW. D19 moved out June 2017 and my WW started acting odd then. I did have some NGS issues where I would let the wife pay all of the bills, schedule everything etc. This is something she forced on me and I just let her do it. I am no longer doing that and I am paying my portion of the bills separately and controlling my own money.

I am still working on not getting baited into arguments or getting heated. The last argument we had was the one I referenced and I did not yell or scream and actually just repeatedly told her to leave me alone, get out of my room, leave me alone, I will not speak with her when she is mad. I eventually got her to leave me alone but almost had to walk out of the house.

WW is super mad today, keeps texting me saying she wants to move out now. I told her do what she wants, I can't stop her. Told her to stop texting me because I need to leave my phone on for work.

[lost8]

If I had a $1 for every time my WW said this isn't about the OM. It is the biggest issue for us right now and there is no explaining that to them.

[SoTorn]

If I had a $1 for every time my WW said this isn't about the OM. It is the biggest issue for us right now and there is no explaining that to them.

Exactly. I just got finished getting a return tirade in text from the WW about how this is all my fault again. I have to keep my phone on so I just validated in text and thats it. She moved on to Christmas gifting again. I again told her that there is no justification in what she is doing and I dont deserve this and our family deserves better and she said "I didnt say you deserve this". Uh, yeah you just did in the ten messages you sent previously about how our marriage was all horrible.

So yeah, I need to DB and DB and DB and not let my emotions get the best of me because she just gets hyper defensive.

[neffer]

Validation is for her feelings. Not for the stories she’s telling. You don’t need to reply to those accusations. Stay away from her world. You need to stay on a higher level.

Keep DB ST. Protect yourself doing that. Detach and don’t give a f@ck!

Stay strong man! I know it’s hard but you have the strength.

[SoTorn]

Validation is for her feelings. Not for the stories she’s telling. You don’t need to reply to those accusations. Stay away from her world. You need to stay on a higher level.

Keep DB ST. Protect yourself doing that. Detach and don’t give a f@ck!

Stay strong man! I know it’s hard but you have the strength.

Exactly. I validated her feelings. The stories I said I don't agree. She literally texted me saying "If you loved me you would protect me" aka don't tell the kids, don't tell anyone. I told her I would not lie for her, protect her or support her while she is actively disrespecting me.

Yes its hard. It seems like she wants to move out. I told her what i need to move out. If she moves out instead thats fine.

[SoTorn]

I just used this from the quote thread because she kept texting me saying she chose to end the marriage before the affair. I am not going to send anything else.

Nope.

Allen A GOOD STATEMENTS For SCRIPT TO WAS:

Stop. We both know you're lying. If that's all you have then I have more important things to attend to. Please excuse me...
Get up to leave...

Puppies classic: I have decided I will no longer lie to cover up your infidelity and destructive behavior.

When you say one thing and do other I have no choice but to protect this family by verifying your claims... Which did indeed turn out as suspected - LIES

Originally Posted By: CD Bear
Rationalization/re-write "I understand your viewpoint. Thank you for sharing. Please know I see it differently"
But if there is any lying do NOT say Thank you

Originally Posted By: CD Bear
If the M comes up as part of it "I understand your view. We have had that argument before. It was not constructive and I know now that you can't talk your way to a better marriage. That requires effort; understanding and action. We did none of these"
Our marriage has problems outside of your infidelity. Your choice of response to those problems is to make them WORSE by introducing an interloper to cause a great deal of stress and damage to your reputation, my commitment, and your daughter's well being. Marital problems need to be met with solutions - not lies and cheating.

Your choice - continue cheating and make things worse, or end the cheating and make things better.

The ball's in your court there. Continue cheating and hurting your own children OR make a commitment to solve the problem constructively.

Originally Posted By: CD Bear
Blame game -"I now know that our marriage wasn't working for either of us and I completely accept my half of the responsibility for that and am sorry for the hurt it caused you. "
I now know that our marriage wasn't satisfactory for you or me. I completely accept my half of the responsibility for that and am sorry for the hurt it caused you. The other half, and your subsequent affair to aggravate those problems is all on you.

OR

I am willing to take ownership of my HALF of our marital problems UP TO the affair. The other 50% of the marital problem and this hurtful affair is ALL YOURS.

Originally Posted By: CD Bear
The hopelessness of our M/feelings justify A
"It is clear now that we both needed to either agree and work together to completely rebuild our M or it would end. I firmly believe a rebuild was possible but your choices took that option away from me.
We both needed to either work together to rebuild our Marriage or work competitively to destroy each other and our daughter. You made a choice to destroy the marriage instead of repairing it. You chose to drag out daughter through a sleazy affair instead of picking up the phone to call a family therapist or anyone.. anyone instead of going to him and hurting your own family like this.

Originally Posted By: CD Bear
If the guilt leads her to "friend street", I will kindly decline and say "Perhaps one day we can, but not now"
I cannot allow you to treat me or your daughter like this. Friends do not lie, cheat on, and abandon their friends.

You are no friend to me or your daughter right now - you are just lying and doing a world of damage you will one day be ashamed of. One day you will have to look our daughter in the eye and she will tell you how horrible you've been. That day you will be the most ashamed mother on the planet.

You must be very proud.

Originally Posted By: CD Bear
"Then all I have to say is this. I will not live in an open marriage. I will not hide your lies or affair. They are disrespectful. I will send you info on a few mediators I have looked into. XXX is the best choice. I will set an appointment for as early in August as possible to finalize up our Separation Agreement. I should have all my banking and documentation gathered by then. You should, too.
Divorce is my last option. It is clear that it is your first and easiest. What you are doing to this family is selfish and irresponsible. But if this is your decision, then you will own the consequences.

I have to go out. See you later."
I will not live in an open marriage. Our daughter will not live in an open marriage. I will not hide your lies or affair. They are disrespectful to me and your daughter, and even to you. A mediator of my choice will be in contact with you very shortly. I will set an appointment as soon as possible to finalize the Separation Agreement. Have all your banking and documentation gathered by then for legal review.

You have a choice to help your family, or destroy it. What you are doing to this family is selfish and irresponsible. But if this is your decision, then you will own the consequences and myself and our daughter will be as far from it as we can get and we won't be looking back.

I have things to do that are a lot more important than listening to your excuses.

[Wanted1]

Validation is for her feelings. Not for the stories she’s telling. You don’t need to reply to those accusations. Stay away from her world. You need to stay on a higher level.

Keep DB ST. Protect yourself doing that. Detach and don’t give a f@ck!

Stay strong man! I know it’s hard but you have the strength.

Exactly. I validated her feelings. The stories I said I don't agree. She literally texted me saying "If you loved me you would protect me" aka don't tell the kids, don't tell anyone. I told her I would not lie for her, protect her or support her while she is actively disrespecting me.

Yes its hard. It seems like she wants to move out. I told her what i need to move out. If she moves out instead thats fine.

Yep, my WW got all concerned and angry when I've brought up telling people about her As in the past. Haven't done that in a solid 3 weeks to a month though. She doesn't understand that I'd be all for protecting her if she wanted to try to R and make the marriage work. I have no problem with that. I've done it the past 2 times! But, if she wants to move on and have her new life and D, I'm not covering up her transgressions, lying or dodging questions if they come up. She will have to understand that that is part of the consequences of her actions. I'm not there to protect her image anymore. I won't go around announcing it, but if I'm put in a position where I can either "protect her" or tell the truth, I'm telling the truth.

This truly is an amazing glimpse into the wayward mentality -- 'I don't need you for anything anymore BUT could you do me a solid and keep this between ourselves? I don't want anyone knowing I'm the one that destroyed everything.' This type of mindset is unbelievable to me!