Sandi's Reflections - Part 3

[sandi2]

I'm glad to hear from you, Lost. I will look at your update. If she says she will do anything to save the MR, then lay it out as to what you require from her in order to feel safe in a relationship with her. You might want to explain how transparency works for both of you. For her, it helps to keep her on track by giving accountability, and it is a way of "earning" backing trust that she broke.

Until I explained the side of transparency from the recovering WW point of view, I don't know that the LBS's on the board had heard or thought of it being helpful for the one who was trying to repair the trust. (I'm just going by what they told me at the time.) Speaking as the recovering WW, I wanted to show my H that I was not going on line to make contact with OM or look at dating sites, etc. Could I have bought a secret phone? Sure, in fact, I already had one, but I threw it away, b/c I had decided to do the right thing.

[sandi2]

The devil is in the details. ............. I don't think she (the WW) is serious yet.

Copied from Lost8's thread:

Posted by Lost8
Realizing that I am in the exact sitch that Sandi describes I wanted another confirmation...I know wrong thing to do. Friday I was able to confirm she was with OM. I called her out an told her everything she had been saying to me was a lie and I was moving out. NC yesterday and she had a gf call me crying saying should would do anything, what would it take? I said nothing I was done, I want space and peace for our family. Her requests were desperation obviously because I will not engage with her at all. She pleaded through her gf and said she would do anything which turned into agreeing to sign an agreement. Then a short time later turned to aggression via text.

This morning she said she didn't want to live like this and wanted to discuss. She started by saying that no one will ever come between us which of course I said it already did. She again said she would do anything. I just don't know if I care to be with her ever again...in ANY capacity. All I said is it best that we need space from each other. Again she started out very upset then said let me see the agreement which I laid out what she would have to pony up for me to leave and she said she couldn't afford even though I padded the numbers in her favor.

I walked away and then she started spouting off about when I was leaving, told her I couldn't without her contributing to household bills unless I stop paying mortgage. I refused to engage in any hostility and did not answer any of her banter.

Not sure what I want still but do I approach at this point and since she offered to do anything tell I need the passwords, access to bank and cc statements, Full disclosure at all times? Should I see if this is the point were she felt maybe she lost control of me finally? Even if she did all this still not sure if I would even take her back, but do I see if she is willing at this point?

Like Sandi said...what kind of work is she doing...do I put her to the test?

This is the copy of my response to Lost on his thread:

First of all, I have to agree with Neffer that your WW is not "there" just yet. I think you need to make her work harder to get you back. If you make it too easy, she won't stick to transparency or anything else.

I don't like the fact she had a GF calling on her behalf. What you and WW have to say needs to be just between the two of you (and later a MC), not friends or family. I know why she used the GF, but it's no good. It's a tactic women use. The GF was to pave the way and soften you. Was the GF crying, or your WW? Did GF tell you WW was crying?

Quote
I said nothing I was done, I want space and peace for our family

Good!

Quote
She pleaded through her gf and said she would do anything which turned into agreeing to sign an agreement. Then a short time later turned to aggression via text.

Well let me tell you about this aggression, okay? I assume you mean she turned aggressive. This is the rebellious side that wants to keep her in charge of how things will be called. She doesn't want you calling the shots and requiring her to do anything she doesn't want to do. In other words, she is not being genuine about "doing anything" to save the M. She has to overcome her stubborn pride and rebellious spirit, if she expects to keep this M. She thought she would get her GF to intervene on her behalf and squeeze out some tears and you'd be good to go. smirk

Quote
Again she started out very upset then said let me see the agreement which I laid out what she would have to pony up for me to leave and she said she couldn't afford even though I padded the numbers in her favor.

Thus her phony attempts to patch up the MR! ^^^^^^^^^^

Quote
I refused to engage in any hostility and did not answer any of her banter.

Good!

Quote
Not sure what I want still but do I approach at this point and since she offered to do anything tell I need the passwords, access to bank and cc statements, Full disclosure at all times? Should I see if this is the point were she felt maybe she lost control of me finally? Even if she did all this still not sure if I would even take her back, but do I see if she is willing at this point?

I think you need to hold the line until you see some of her anger and aggression dissipate. She believes she has control of this situation and has no intention of succumbing to your terms. I suggest you tell her you need space & time away from her b/c you have a lot of decisions to make about your future. Tell her not to be texting, b/c you don't won't be answering......and not to get any of her friends to intervene for her. This will definitely put her focus on wondering what you will do. Let her squirm. Let her get mad. So what? She will probably contact OM out of desperation, but what else is knew? If she thinks she's lost her Plan B, she's going to start sweating.......which is good. She needs to worry that she's really lost you!

So, rather than hand her a list of requirements right off the bat, I think I would simply tell her (if she continues to pursue you) that you will need to be convinced things are truly over with her & any third party. If she starts swearing on someone's life or grave.......inform her that unfortunately her word is currently worth very little. If she persists in wanting to save the M or ask what can she do to prove to you........then you can bring up the passwords, transparency, etc.

Neffer may have something to add to this.

This is a very critical time, and it's the point that many LBH's don't pull back hard enough b/c they are too eager to save the M and afraid the WW won't pursue. If you are not certain you want to try it again, then take all the time you need.

[AnthonyA]

Hey Sandi, I appreciate all your help so far on my thread. So you know, my W and I are going to separate. She is moving to an apartment down the street. It is just a 1 bedroom and won't have washer/dryer hook up. This is a temporary separation to let her see what single life would be.

She mentioned keeping her part time job to help get the kids on and off the bus and then watching them in the summer. We have not talked about logistics but I don't want her thinking she would have the luxury of staying at "our" house and all the extra room and yard where she can do whatever and let the kids play. Also, since there is no washer/dryer hook up she had asked if she could do the laundry at "our" house still. I made the mistake of saying yes. No reading a lot of your reflections, I should have said No.

I am trying to figure out how to go about saying, you want to see what single life looks like or divorce life looks like, you need to do these things are your own and not at this house. Also, she has mentioned that she does not want to impact the kids as much as possible. I did make the mistake that divorce would make impacts to the kids. We still need to come up with logistics and such. I guess I can backtrack on the washer/dryer stuff at that point and other things to say that if we were divorced, you wouldn't have access to that stuff. What is your suggestion on this. You can reply here or in my thread. TIA

[Gomez]

Hi Sandi. This is a brilliantly insightful thread but I need some guidance if you can spare the time. I had the BD 1 year ago 6 months ago, complete with the ILYBINILWY speech. My W and I still live together with our 2 boys as the house sale has fallen through twice. She filed 6 months ago. Throughout the latter years of our R, my wife has said I was cold, unloving and didn’t respect her and I agree this is how I was. So to try to fix it, I tried to be more loving and caring. However, I know she had feelings for a friend of a friend and this went as far as sexting, so an EA. I know it didn’t go physical (I don’t want to say how I know but I know, not think). She’s always on her phone but she says she’s not in contact with him anymore. I’ve seen the last message was a couple of months ago but theoretically she could be deleting them. My question is, do I still treat her as a WW? It seems to me the way to treat a WW is different to a W that has been starved of love and affection for so long. Having said that, the love and affection has meant we now get on better than we have for a long time but she still says she wants to D. Maybe she’s cake eating, maybe I’m a plan B, maybe I’m letting myself get in the friend zone?

[sandi2]

Thank you for your kind words. I will find your thread and post my thoughts about your sitch there.

[BenB]

Thank you for your kind words. I will find your thread and post my thoughts about your sitch there.

Hi Sandi,

If you at some point would have time to look at mine as well, that would be highly appreciated. I just started my second thread.

Hope you are well

[sandi2]

Hi Ben, I would be happy to take a look and give my thoughts. Thank you.

[ozman]

Hey sandi. Awesome thread. Great insight. My thread is kinda long cause I’m really hard headed and it takes me awhile to absorb advice. Which I have gotten a lot of

If you have time could you look at my sitch and tell me what you think. Offer your insight into my W. To be honest I did a pretty good job of losing her respect with my insecurities and financial blunders.

[BenB]

Hi Sandi,

Would you mind looking at my latest posts and let me know if you have any thoughts?

[Pack_19]

Hi Sandi,

First of all thanks a lot for all your threads and comments, I must have read some of them twice.

I recently separated and we were living in a foreign country. She claimed our marriage was dead because I neglected her and focused on work to provide for our two children S1 and S6. She has moved to the city we are both originally from with the children. I know for sure there is no OM. Here are some things I heard at home:

> I dont love you and I dont want to be with you
> It is all your fault, you need to change and we will see what the future brings as I cannot predict it
> I do not trust you and I do not trust you can change
> I dont like the man you have turned into
> You ruined my life and my dream of a joint family

She threatened me with some harsh things I wont quote and got me to sign an agreement that assumes I was to stay in the foreign country and then visit every 15 days.

It's only been 2 months since she moved out, I have managed to relocate with work to be in the country we are originally from and hence I can push to have the agreement modified. Here is the question. I am all for saving my marriage and I want to avoid conflict but I can get a lawyer to fight for a new agreement that covers me and the children. I had given myself a deadline to do this and it is not yet but she keeps preventing me from seeing the children if outside of my visiting time even now that I am on holidays and 3 streets away from her.

Also, we never went to MC or similar and she claims she has done everything and has a clean mind. She did complain to me many times but I withdrew like an idiot, I am working on making the changes GAL and LRT but how can I get to her if all I get is contempt, ignorance and space?

I am 200% up for saving my marriage, I know her, what she has said and I genuinely think we can fix this but all I get is pressure from outsiders telling me how idiot I am I cannot see she has built a life for herself without me and is pushing for me to be a pension and a visiting father. Not only do I need to remain calm and confident, work on myself and fight to keep my mind from thinking about my failed marriage, I also need to fight external pressure that sees me as the hanged- up-poor-in-love-thing. How I can get to her? How can I make her see I can change for real and bring her happiness? that I am now the lighthouse for her family. I have always been a great father and I have a brilliant career (we were buying our first house in this foreign country) but I took my marriage for granted.

I am very concerned about my children, now is when they need me the most and I can only be there every 15 days.

Thanks a lot and keep up the great work you all do, this site is my new man cave.