Milestones of Moving On (?)

[Joe2017]

TJT,

I didn't read your last thread, but I read this one. You did NOT waste 9 years of your life because your STBXH left you for an affair. Life doesn't work that way. Besides, you are YOUNG! Really!!!!

Control what you can control. You can't control him. You can't control OW. You can only control yourself.

Are you GAL'ing? Are you doing 180's? DB is marketed as a "last ditch" effort to win your spouse back, but what I found over the last year was that it has been WAY more about making myself a much better version. I took all the time and energy I would have WASTED on my XW and used it to upgrade myself. While I was in the worst of it, I did GAL with an empty feeling. I did it because this site taught me to do it. But it really did make a difference in my life going forward. I worked out a lot, ate better, dropped like 50 freaking pounds. Went out, made new connections, made new friends, GOT A LIFE. It saved me from imploding.

Divorce is hard. Getting cheated on is hard. Being the LBS is HARD. But this was not about you, TJT. This has always been about your spouse. You are NOT deficient. And even if you were, that is not a reason to cheat. Just reading what you've written here gives me the impression that you're a caring, thoughtful, and intelligent woman. Listen, you were good enough to get him to marry you in the beginning, and you're good enough now. It's not about that. It's about your H being a cheater. They don't need REAL reasons to cheat, and they will even MAKE UP reasons to justify their actions. They don't live in reality.

I've gone over my failed marriage a lot lately since myself and WW have decided to reconcile post D. I have asked her a lot of questions trying to understand why she left me for a loser. She really had no good reasons. There was never any comparison, to be honest. The OM can't hold a candle to me in any way. She had a mental breakdown and left me because she ran from her situation and went to someone else because they were new and she saw a way out. Now that is different than your sitch, but I tell you this because I want you to know that you are not at fault, no matter what your self-perceived deficiencies might be.

I wracked my brain to figure out why my XW left me. I eventually realized that none of it had to do with me. A year later, she verified that that was 100% true. She remembers every hateful word she told me, but she cannot explain why she was so vile other than she was doing her best to try and make me leave her alone. Which I did, through NC... yet she still persisted through contacting me for no reason. I can say that nothing she did made sense during that time, and she has no explanations either.

So it doesn't matter if your H is a WH WAH or having a MLC. Not many of their decisions are going to be rational, so the best you can hope for is to understand that you simply can't understand. They can't be rational to the rest of the world because they can create their own reality and justify their actions based upon that.

Stay strong. The first thing you have to save in a divorce is not the marriage, it's yourself.

[TJT]

I think maybe the inlaws are too much. If you guys find yourselves together and happy, then resume that relationship with the inlaws.

I agree with this. We still genuinely care for each other, I believe, but they are going through so much of their own stuff in addition to this that I definitely think it makes it more difficult. In my mind, I want to be there for them and I do hope that keeping them in my life would increase chances of H deciding to recon with me, but probably that's the wrong way to look at it. It's just another thing I resent, having to lose all these other relationships with people because of him.

I'd pay a cop to serve him, that's somewhat normal around here. Keep it business like. I wouldn't say anything like that to him either, he already knows it. You would just solidify yourself as Plan B. As for creating that "moment", I'd say it's a risky move. I'm not sure how it will play out but I'd prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

The thing is he is not going to get served at all. We agreed on how to split things when this all started and agreed that we do not want to hire Ls and waste a bunch (more) money.. That's one thing I am thankful for in this sitch, even though it makes it seem even crazier how badly it seems he just wants to get away. So he (or I, depending on who filed first) would simply be signing a waiver of service.

This is the reason I am also getting more anxious though, the more I hear about what he and OW are doing. I don't want someone to change his mind about how we should go about the D and then he initiates a battle.

Last night I was thinking though, he likely really will need to get some info for me if he were to proceed filing on his end first (like my SSN). I don't know for sure that he's organized enough or has anything that would have my info on it for him to refer to anymore. So I could just wait and then if he does start to ask me more questions, then I could hurry up and do it first since I read that the court will only accept one (unless you're filing jointly). Then at that point I could tell him I've already got it in the system, he can sign the thing, and if he tries to make it bigger than that it would become a conversation at least vs. ME getting served by surprise. I really have no idea how likely that would be to occur, I'm just scared since there are now other people involved with H and have no idea who they are or how much they know about me and our sitch.

Turn it around, he didn't file right? So did you feel like he was pursuing you? I hope that answers you question.

I don't feel like he's pursuing me by not filing, but I'd be lying if I didn't say him not filing gives me some impression of hope...like maybe he's leaving himself an "out" if he wanted to come back to his marriage. At the very, very least, I know he's not running off and marrying OW if he's still married to me, hah (wow, my standard of positive events has really changed!)

So on the flip side of that, if I am not filing either I feel like that gives HIM the impression that I am still hopeful he will return. Not necessarily that I am actively pursuing, but that I am still available as the 2nd option/plan B like you mentioned, even without me saying anything to reinforce that. That's the balance I'm struggling to achieve.

I'm so sorry that you're at this point where you feel like you've lost control. I hope you know you can gain control over your life and your happiness no matter where this divorce goes. But it's up to you. Let go of the stuff you can't do anything about and go work towards something where you energy will reap benefits. Your H is one of those things you can't control.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart ovrrnbw. I really do appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to me and I can tell you mean what you say. I've accepted that I can't control H, I just have not yet been able to accept his actions or the hurt they've caused. I know I have a choice as to how I respond to the hurt, and I am doing some positive things that help, and I have really good moments where I feel like I'll be okay.. I just can't seem to escape the ultimate feeling of doom and gloom for losing what I already had.

I tell myself all the time that this could open my life up for something better. But I am a very logical thinker and I can't acknowledge that without also acknowledging the potential reality that maybe something better WON'T happen. Maybe I will never meet someone I like, or who likes me, again. Maybe I will but then that relationship will fail for some reason too. I feel the odds of being alone are higher than the odds of finding someone I connected with like my H, and I know that may just be fear talking but that's where I am getting a lot of anxiety that's keeping me in this spot. And that's why I feel like I will never move forward on my own unless I force something, like the D, even if I still feel like it's not the end for me.

Maybe I should give it more time but the pressure from my family and continuing to feel like an idiot for "letting" H do this to me, along with the fear of other characters in H's life affecting mine, is all just wearing on me. It feels like psychological warfare.

[TJT]

Hey Joe. Thank you for stopping by my thread and reading and responding

Are you GAL'ing? Are you doing 180's? DB is marketed as a "last ditch" effort to win your spouse back, but what I found over the last year was that it has been WAY more about making myself a much better version. I took all the time and energy I would have WASTED on my XW and used it to upgrade myself. While I was in the worst of it, I did GAL with an empty feeling. I did it because this site taught me to do it.

I am GALing. Maybe not AS much in recent weeks with the holidays, but I have been doing more than I thought I'd be comfortable with. I've had friends over at the house which was great, I've gone out to movies and a play and dinner with friends. I have another friend who is in town from another state and she is going to come and grill out with me and stay overnight later this week. I am going to Yoga, not super frequently but I try to once a week at least. And I am cooking more for myself, which is sort of a sore subject because it was something meaningful in me and H's marriage, but I am trying to put it into new perspective and find joy in it for myself.

Being in a new community I've also pushed myself not to isolate myself from neighbors. New neighbors right next to me will be moving in later this week. But some of these things just make me more sad because these people are families and I don't have one anymore. So, yeah, I definitely do it with an empty feeling or even a resentful feeling and like nobody IRL really understands what I'm going through. I don't end up HATING it but everything - in fact sometimes I have found myself enjoying it - it just seems to circle back to missing H or at a minimum wanting someone else to build a life with me ASAP even if it's not H (which I KNOW I do not want to do as it wouldn't be healthy at this stage). It's like even when I'm doing something and happy with myself, the minute I'm not "distracted" any more I feel the exact same.. sad, lonely, why is this happening, why wasn't I able to change it, etc.

But this was not about you, TJT. This has always been about your spouse. You are NOT deficient. And even if you were, that is not a reason to cheat. Just reading what you've written here gives me the impression that you're a caring, thoughtful, and intelligent woman. Listen, you were good enough to get him to marry you in the beginning, and you're good enough now. It's not about that.

Thank you Joe. I really appreciate this reminder.

The OM can't hold a candle to me in any way. She had a mental breakdown and left me because she ran from her situation and went to someone else because they were new and she saw a way out. Now that is different than your sitch, but I tell you this because I want you to know that you are not at fault, no matter what your self-perceived deficiencies might be.

I haven't read your sitch yet (will try to do later today) but the little snippet of your W wanting a way out actually sounds a lot like my H. And I have gotten it out of my ILs that they feel at least somewhat the same about him avoiding his issues and my parents definitely agree with that assessment.

I definitely feel that there has been an element of depression, lack of self-esteem, etc. contributing to my H's A, catalyzed by work issues, issues he's been having with his family, health issues... I mean, there has to be something a lot more serious than just "not being happy" and something I "did" for someone to drop 20k on a brand new home, only to completely withdraw 2 months later and BD (which I still feel bad about because he didn't even really BD... it was I who initiated a conversation about him basically acting like he wanted that, which he then just confirmed he thought was best. I regret that approach but I guess I didn't honestly think it would go that way!)

Anyway, I get that it doesn't make sense for him to be blaming his complete unhappiness on me, but it does amplify the insecurities I do have. I picture him and OW in a sexual fantasy land and wonder if I was just the stale boring wife in the bedroom (he never asked for anything different and I figured as long as we were being intimate he would be happy).

His MIL did also mention that he said something about me not treating his son the way he wanted me to - which absolutely has been a point of contention in our relationship, however 1) I was 20 years old when I met him with a 4 year-old and an XW with joint custody, so yeah there was a learning curve for me... and 2) he has always been very lax from a discipline perspective, which I admit has frustrated me.

But the point is I did talk to him about what I needed from him to feel like we were a team in parenting his son and for ME to feel like I wasn't always the bad guy when he needed discipline and that I got respect as a stepparent, both from him and his son. It just never changed and typically really important conversations only occurred between him and his son privately. I know in some cases it was good and appropriate for them to bond - but many times it made me feel like an outsider to their relationship.

I 100% realize these kinds of things that were issues in our M - the issues themselves and how he addressed them (or lacktherof). But I love him and they were never things that I wasn't willing to keep pushing through, and it just gets more and more clear to me that he has never really wanted to work on change of any kind. If you could manage to dig back through my sitch, I talk somewhere about all the times I did feel like something was "off" and how I would try to talk to him, suggest going to a marital workshop or even just individual activities between us to build a stronger relationship, but he always scoffed. And this was well before I felt he was really distancing himself, so I could never quite understand why he wasn't willing to "protect" our relationship by doing some maintenance work every now and then. But I guess I just took it as him being content with how things were. And I just accepted it because I did not want to be that "nagging" wife!

But I digress.

Stay strong. The first thing you have to save in a divorce is not the marriage, it's yourself.

I know this has to be true and I hate that I seem to be so codependent. I have always thought of myself as a very independent person, but I am learning through this process that I am only independent when it comes to logistics - money, having an organized life, work, etc. When it comes to emotions, I have some level of independence but apparently placed way more weight than I should have on H to make me happy, since I now feel like my whole life is ruined without him. I still believe that life is to be shared and that it's normal to feel that emptiness even if we are truly happy with ourselves, and that we all do require some level of validation. I guess I just need to be easier on myself so that I'm not so afraid that nobody else will ever accept my flaws. I'd like to think someone will and won't use them as an excuse to leave like H has.

My H did say at some point that this wasn't my fault, blah blah blah, but that's just more frustrating for him to acknowledge something like that and yet not work on it. And this is why I'm so pessimistic about whether he will EVER work on things, since that seems to be the pattern. I just think at some point, he has to get to an age or a mental state where he wants to break his own cycle... and I'd like to think that I am/was a force in his life that would help him realize that (I am the longest and I'd say most serious romantic relationship he's had, which makes this even harder to understand), but realistically I know I have to accept that it may never happen, like ovrrnbw said.

[Joe2017]

TJT, we have a lot of parallels.

I also had a lot of codependency that I had to deal with. There is always some in a marriage, so don't get yourself down about it but it will be one of the obstacles you have to get over. I was lucky because I was able to lean on my kid to go out and do things with, but then I also had to try to make sure he didn't learn codependency from me too. It helps to GAL.

Also, the ILYBINILWY thing and the argument when I confronted my XW about everything and damn near made her go ahead with the words "I want a divorce"? Yeah. I know how that feels. YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT. He could have just as easily said NO I don't want a divorce!!!! You did not MAKE him say he wants a D. He was already wanting it. It hurts, it hurts bad. But it's not your fault. My ex told me I MADE her want a D. Bullsht. Like yours, our M was the longest relationship my XW had ever had. She still tossed it out.

Your flaws? Who cares, unless you're talking about being some kind of felon. Love is supposed to fill in the gaps and help you both overcome them, just like your love for your H fills in the gaps that he has. And being a stale boring wife in the bedroom? Really? If he never told you he wanted more, that's on him. Good sex involves communication and cooperation in both directions. I doubt you were boring.

Look, you're past the point of returning to what you had. Things will never be the same. You are not going to get that back. I am still dealing with my betrayal issues to this day, and they are a hard thing to handle while trying to recon with XW. It is crappy, but your M will not just go back to the way it was. One day, you will look back and realize that it wasn't what it COULD have been, anyways.

Maybe one day you will get another shot with your WH. Maybe not. But if you're anything like many of us here, if your WH comes back to you in a year, two years, or three... you may not even want him back. My XW and I are back together after a year, and it is HARD work. That thing I said about love filling in the gaps? It's true, but like you've probably read on here a few times, LOVE IS A CHOICE.

If you choose to file, remember that it's just a legal procedure with documents that say you are not bound to him anymore. You are a YOUNG woman. You have a ton of time to figure out life. There are many many many men out there who are everything you'd want, including faithful.

[TJT]

He could have just as easily said NO I don't want a divorce!!!! You did not MAKE him say he wants a D. He was already wanting it.

You have a point there. Somehow I convince myself that even if he was thinking it, maybe if I hadn't pulled it out of him the result would be different. But he was definitely acting worse and worse and that's all that really matters.

Your flaws? Who cares, unless you're talking about being some kind of felon. Love is supposed to fill in the gaps and help you both overcome them, just like your love for your H fills in the gaps that he has. And being a stale boring wife in the bedroom? Really? If he never told you he wanted more, that's on him.

Definitely not a felon! Thanks for this. I catch myself wondering what's so bad about me that he couldn't accept my flaws when I accepted all of his, but I need to remind myself over and over that this really wasn't about that to begin with. It's just hard not to think about falling short when you find a lingerie credit card and she's so much younger. She is also similar in appearance to me. There is a clear physical element of his A, and I would almost guess that's the main element (although I guess at this point we can argue that intellectually, maybe he's really on OW's level and identifies more with her in that regard, too).

This is highlighted by the fact that he had been dealing with a bit of ED issues on and off for ~the last year. So I also wonder how much of that was getting to him. I know he started pills right after he moved out (he had gone to the doc right before, but before he changed his address I got a pack of them in the mail. Talk about salt in the wound). So I'm also curious about whether OW knows about any of that. I can't imagine a younger girl being able to/wanting to deal with that readily. But part of me thinks maybe that's a factor in this behavior too.

Look, you're past the point of returning to what you had. Things will never be the same. You are not going to get that back. I am still dealing with my betrayal issues to this day, and they are a hard thing to handle while trying to recon with XW. It is crappy, but your M will not just go back to the way it was. One day, you will look back and realize that it wasn't what it COULD have been, anyways.

Yeah, I know. And I think I'd be willing to accept the challenges, AS LONG as H was doing all the things (therapy, letting me go through whatever process I need, etc.) - my logic being that everyone is going to have "something" to overcome and at this rate, I'm going to have trust issues no matter who I'm with because I'm so scarred by this. I know anticipated trust issues and trust issues based on real events are two different things, so like you said, maybe if I had the chance I wouldn't actually want to do this with him again. But of course I want that choice!

That thing about love being a choice, I said it over and over to my H, well BEFORE any of this happened but I think right as I suspect his A started, looking back on it. I wrote a quote on his bathroom mirror about how I will always choose him, over and over. I noticed it was erased after I came back from a business trip once, hence me putting the dots together given that the exact same thing happened during the time that I eventually discovered she had been in our new home. I even asked him what happened to the notes. He just said he doesn't like to keep them there "forever" (forever apparently being a few days). I knew $h!t was suspect but I never had proof until I had proof. Then that spirals into other things that totally blow my mind when I realize what he was doing, like when he would ask me to help shave his back. Now I know it was probably for OW...but how F'ed up is it that he had his WIFE do it for him?!

If you choose to file, remember that it's just a legal procedure with documents that say you are not bound to him anymore.

Totally trying to think of it this way, because as much as I hate the emotional aspect/symbolic significance of it, it's just the best thing for me legally. With a new year coming up and the potential for me to get a raise or new job, I don't want to put myself in an even worse position IF things were to change. I can at least file and I think I even have 60 days from that point to notify him, so I could just "hold onto it" for a while before continuing the process I guess. I just want to avoid my H never coming back AND me getting screwed financially.

You are a YOUNG woman. You have a ton of time to figure out life. There are many many many men out there who are everything you'd want, including faithful.

I really appreciate this Joe. Your posts have been very helpful for me today, seriously. I will say I hate hearing that because it's hard for me to feel this way or believe at this moment, and I feel so much of the meaningful, normative parts of my life that I worked so hard through have been with H and I can't get that back with anyone else, but all I can do is trust that it's the truth! But in particular, I would definitely be happy at least finding someone I am compatible and happy with and yes, who will be just as loyal and committed to me. So many people talk about how cheating is so common that I don't know what I would do if something even half this bad happened to me again.

It's been rainy all day but I've kept myself busy cleaning the house, making lists of errands I need to do tomorrow and preparing for my friend's visit, etc. With the added help of your posts, I feel like I've had a decent day. I even took out a little kitchen white board I want to hang somewhere and erased the love note on it he had written to me once. Yesterday I found a looong letter he had written very, very early in our relationship, talking about how he hadn't been in love with anyone else like he is with me and wanted to be with me for the rest of his life. I didn't handle that one as well; it makes all of this that much harder to believe!

[TJT]

Hey everyone.

So as I mentioned, I started the process of filing. Really what that amounts to is I went online to find a service that would help do the paperwork and ensure the right process is being followed.

They've drafted the petition and just need my approval to get it filed. Before I really pull the trigger on this, I wanted to write out my "reasons to file" and "reasons not to file" and get your opinions...

After writing these out, I have many more reasons TO file and my reasons NOT to file seem kind of lame...although I also realize that some of my reasons TO file are rooted in fear and may not actually occur. It would just be terrible if they did and I haven't done what I need to do to protect myself.

If I think of any others I will add to the list but right now I just wanted to get these out.
--------------------------------
Reasons TO File:

- I will be able to get the house title transfer from H so that he no longer has rights to the house. He is moved out, but still on the title, so he would have rights to it even though I am the only one paying on the mortgage.

- I will be able to remove H and his son from my health insurance. H is giving me money each month for this but A) it's obviously not guaranteed that will always be the case, and B) even though he's helping pay the premium, if something serious were to happen to one of them medically, I could still be liable for half of it legally speaking.

ALSO, I feel like this could be a form of cake-eating, since H doesn't have employer-provided insurance so it seems that it may cost more for him to have to get insurance himself once he's dropped from mine. I don't know if this would really be a significant reason for him not to file, but it was just a thought I had.

- I will be able to remove H from the car insurance. Similar comment as above regarding the fact that he is sending me money for this, but I am also still legally tied to him here. Some of you may challenge this one, but I've looked into it multiple times and I am told each time that I can't remove him without a decree. Must have to do with community property laws.

- If I file before end of year, and we go through with D, it will be with this year's salary vs. next year's, which (fingers crossed) shouldn't matter, but IF things were to take a bad turn, and if I were to get a significant raise or new job in 2019, at least they would be taking 2018 numbers into account. I hope this would be a non-issue either way, but thinking ahead it just seems smarter.

- If he is racking up credit card debt or some other debt I don't know about, I could also still be legally liable for it.

- Optics: I may feel better if I'm the one who initiates vs. him. It debunks the narrative he *could* be creating (although I have no proof of it) that I am the wrong-doer. It may put some doubt into OW's mind about what's *really* going on here and how my H contributed... and may also put some doubt into H's mind about losing me if he sees I'm taking action. Granted, people will make up whatever they want to make themselves feel better, so this probably isn't a reliable logic.

- Similar to above point: right now, H is embarrassing me and making me look like a doormat. As much as I want to be committed to him, it is wearing on me and I do feel it is affecting my self esteem to be sitting here waiting for a man who clearly does not give a crap about me right now. To try to explain to people that he may just be "going through something" and that's why I'm willing to wait just makes me feel stupid, even if I believe it. And then there's the fact that he may never snap out of it in which case I will look extra stupid for all the time I wasted. I know it's MY marriage and I shouldn't care what people think of it, but I don't want this to prevent me from moving on.
--> Of all the things I could use additional perspectives on, I think this is the biggest one. Has anyone else felt this way? How did you deal with it? Did you reach a limit like I seem to be? It's hard to do what I feel could be valuable for my M while also doing what I feel is valuable for my mental health...

- It's just a piece of paper and legal agreement and doesn't mean we can't still have a relationship one day

----------------------------------------------------
Reasons NOT to file:

- I don't want it to seem to H that I'm not willing to consider working on the M anymore. And since it's against the DB rules for me to tell him I would be, I just have to trust that he knows. On one hand I think he does, on the other hand I don't know WTH he's thinking, ever, apparently.

- "Freeing" him of the house liability will make it easier for him to go out on his own to get other loans, and I feel like this should be something HE takes care of rather than me doing the work for him. Maybe not a good reason... but just saying. I don't want to continue enabling his avoidance of real life.

- By NOT "freeing" him of the expectation that he will need to hand over his cut of the insurance each month, I feel like that will help maintain some kind of tie to him. I realize this may not be a reasonable approach, kind of like when people try to use kids to stay together except I'm using the insurance, haha... but I like the idea of OW potentially getting uncomfortable with the fact that he still has this interaction with me on some level, or for her to start questioning why he just hasn't filed himself (again it's more of that accountability piece for him) - Vs. if we are D we will have no reason whatsoever to interact anymore.

- I'm afraid that the formality of D will be "a point of no return" in H's eyes. Obviously it doesn't matter to him in terms of how he behaves, but I wonder if not being legally D still means something to him, or gives him a mental "out" if things don't work out with OW, and I don't want to remove that if that's the case. I argue with myself that if that if he would want me back but hesitate to act on it because we already D'ed, it will prove he has not done the work to overcome various issues he needs to address (ego, shame, etc.), but I struggle with this because I feel an obligation as his wife and someone who loves him to be there for him. I am having a hard time separating how much of that is my obligation to show him and how much of that is his obligation to see on his own.

- Once I file, that record will be there, even if I dismiss it later. I don't know, that just seems scary to me. I can always file later, it may just have different implications based on the situation at the time.

- I will have to pay the filing fee (~$325)

[DejaVu6]

All of the "not to" reasons seem fear-based to me TJT. Honestly...if you file, you will know pretty quick what the means to him. It seems to me there are many more reasons to file than not. I know what you are going through. I have a lawyer appointment in the new year to send a counter proposal to my H's separation agreement (also correct some pretty blatant misinformation). It is not what I want but I also know it is what I need to do to protect myself. Like others have said...it is just a piece of paper and has nothing to do with whether or not you can R in the future. For you, it may also be a necessary step towards dropping the rope.

Also... as others have said... and you did not list this reason but you are YOUNG!!! I met my H when I was 37 which is seven years older than you are now!!! I wish I had known then what I know now as there were warning signs I should have paid attention to (like he cheated on his first wife twice...once when they were engaged and once when they were married) but I was in love and naïve and I thought that love conquers all. You are way ahead of me in that department and I think will be much smarter when you choose your next/last partner. It WILL happen TJT. Trust in that!!! Drop the rope. Your H does not deserve you. (((TJT)))

[TJT]

Yes thanks DV. I know everything is relative it's just so hard and stupid for someone to ruin our LIFE "plans". I know life isn't to be planned to begin with but out of all the things that people have a choice in, vs. the things that truly are beyond our control (illness, etc.), I totally feel choices like this that affect others they way they do should be downright illegal!

I also know I can't keep living in a "what-if" world or justifying H's actions due to MLC, psychological issues, etc. I am glad that you are taking steps to protect yourself too. We don't have legal separation in my state so I'm not totally familiar with that.

Your last sentence has made me tear up. I am thankful for the encouragement, I know you are right and I know myself that I deserve better. I am so mad that my H didn't live up to his promises and I really hope that I can trust myself more in the future to find a partner that will not put me through this again.

I watched a YouTube video last night with a lady who talked through her experience of being left for another woman that had a lot of similarities to mine, particularly how her H didn't seem to ask for any forgiveness after being caught or do any of the "normal" things we expected. They tried a brief separation (like, a few days) to allow them both time to think about what they wanted, and she found out even then that her H just spent the time with OW. She realized he made his choice and they ended up D (I don't know who filed in her case).

She seemed fairly young and said that it was about 9 years ago now, and she is now remarried with two kids (she says she met her new H a mere 3 months after separating from her XH!!) She also confessed that she doesn't trust anyone anymore, that even with her current H she only trusts him 95% because you can never really know for sure.

I am going to have to do a lot of work to get over my disdain that the person I will be from now on in any relationship is going to be a different person that I never expected I'd have to be. I need to find the good in that instead of thinking that I will just be "damaged". I need to find a way to be okay with this being a part of my life story, and to that end I need to be patient because I know it may take a while for all of this to form into a cohesive plot that makes sense to me.

Basically I feel like I'm 12 again sitting in my room and feeling "held back" because I was not yet an independent adult who could live my own life. I ALWAYS looked forward to being a little older, out of college and married with my own money and family. I've never been one of those people that longs for being a kid again. I would frequently think to myself when out in public with H how happy I was that we were a unit together in life. Then poof...all gone.

It seems like the equivalent of going to college for many years, studying and sacrificing endlessly toward a degree, then being told at the end of it "just kidding! You didn't actually earn anything, and by the way all the stuff you thought you learned is now outdated so you have to start over." Or reaching like a 10-year career milestone only to be told that you're going to have to take an entry-level job again.

Anyway..most of this was just more rambling. I appreciate your insight and helping me build my confidence.

[DejaVu6]

TJT.... you are not "damaged". Your self image has taken a hit but make no mistake, the only damaged person in this scenario is your H. I think this experience has and will change you but not necessarily for the worse. Yes...like me, you have figured out that not everyone is trustworthy and that two people can be doing the same thing and be having very different experiences. Also that we cannot assume everyone else is like us. The things my H did, I could not even think of let alone do. But there were many, many signs that I ignored in order to preserve my ideal of him and of us. I am paying the price for that now. So...in the future, I will be more careful and I will pay attention to that little voice inside me that says something isn't quite right. I envy you in a lot of ways. I wish I could do my 30s over knowing what I know now. For the five years I was single during that time, I really had fun. Online dating was just starting to be a thing and I met some pretty interesting guys that way. Of course, that's also how I met my H so it was a mixed blessing. I can't forget, however, that he did give me the two most precious gifts one can ever give which are my two amazing children. And he is trying to do right by them now even though he let them down horribly in the past. I am thankful for that, at least.

What is that phrase? "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans." Man...did we ever learn that the hard way. In my sitch, because my H was so absent, I thought a lot about the future and our plans for when he was "better". I was so miserable in the present, I feel like I actually started living in the future. I think that is why this has been so devastating to me. Not gonna make that mistake again. The only plans I'm going to make are the ones that I can make happen without anyone else involved. At the end of the day, the only person you can truly count on is yourself. We have both learned that lesson the hard way.

Anyway...please, please, please do NOT let fear of the unknown dictate your life. You are so far ahead at 30 than most people your age. Drop the rope. Get excited about who/what might be waiting for you out there when you finallty do. I PROMISE you that if you do, you will be back on here in a year or two telling us all how happy you are and how you can't even believe you spent any time at all worrying about what your life without your H would look like. TJT...he is GONE. You are already living your life without him. Make it a GREAT one!!! (((TJT)))

[Yail]

I know everything is relative it's just so hard and stupid for someone to ruin our LIFE "plans". I know life isn't to be planned to begin with but out of all the things that people have a choice in, vs. the things that truly are beyond our control (illness, etc.), I totally feel choices like this that affect others they way they do should be downright illegal!

This right here is us (you and me both) knowing this lesson logically vs learning it for real. We knew this before - that life can and will be hard. But now we're being smacked in the face with it. Every person on earth needs this lesson and it comes in different forms. This is ours.

I am going to have to do a lot of work to get over my disdain that the person I will be from now on in any relationship is going to be a different person that I never expected I'd have to be. I need to find the good in that instead of thinking that I will just be "damaged". I need to find a way to be okay with this being a part of my life story, and to that end I need to be patient because I know it may take a while for all of this to form into a cohesive plot that makes sense to me.

I could have written this. This is fear of the unknown you - you should not be afraid of your (future) self. But you're right - we don't know who we will be in our next R, and we may like that person better. Just because we lost our ability to trust completely does not mean we will never feel light or giddy or trusting again. It just will be different. Perhaps fuller, because we know we carry precious cargo. We know the full weight of what we hold.

The lows may be lower, but I fully believe our highs will be higher.