Uncertain of What I Have (Thread 2)

[SoTorn]

You need to start DB hard man. I havent read up completely but is your W having an A? It sure sounds like it. When my W started getting heavy in the A, she dropped the "I want space, ILYBDLYAM" . But she would still argue about times, chores etc.

Detach, GAL. Set boundaries for yourself. W can't have both you and whatever else it is she wants whether it be A or grass is greener.

[Bo562]

Trying with the DB—though I feel like some days it’s uneven.

I don’t think there is an A / OM, though earlier I’ve mentioned my prior suspicions.

Back in Feb. when this all really started, she said that there wasn’t OM, but I know one of the mottos here is ‘Believe nothing they say,’

I’ve also said before that if she thinks the grass is so much greener, then fine. But given her current workplace and life situation, I doubt that there are too many men around her who would be willing to put up with her focus on her career and have to deal with the kids.

But maybe it’s just me.

I’ve also mentioned that I’m not sure which is worse—her saying she wants out because she truly wants out, or her popping off about S / D because she is hormonal / depressed because of the pregnancy or is trying to manipulate me.

[AnotherStander]

Here’s the long and short of it—she tells me she needs me home, that there is a lot that needs to get done around the house, and that she wanted to go out for a run this afternoon but couldn’t because I got home so late. I tried to validate her, but it didn’t go anywhere. What I should have done is hit the eject button and tell her that I can’t talk with her while she is so upset with me, that we can talk later when she is less upset.

She then tells me that I’ve been coming home after 5:00 for the last month or so, and that I’ve been really terrible at communicating the last couple of weeks. That she didn’t have any input on going out for our anniversary—that maybe she wanted to do a different week or a different night like Friday, or choose what to do or where to go, but that I just went ahead and made a reservation.

One thing you need to understand is in her current mindset, everything is your fault and you can do nothing right and everything wrong. I'm sorry to say it's only going to continue getting worse from here. My suggestion would be that since you're both under the same roof and effectively are in an IHS then you come up with a schedule for watching S. You agree to be home certain evenings by a certain time so she can go do stuff and vice versa, she agrees to be home certain nights so you can do what you want.

She needs me so much and talks about walking on our marriage vows?

I think you're getting confused, she doesn't "need" you as a husband, just as someone to do errands, watch the kids and take care of other beta stuff.

If she challenges me about this weekend’s dinner, I’ll say “I’m sorry you feel that way. I was really looking forward to having dinner with you then, as I made reservations. If you don’t want to go, you don’t have to, but that means you can put the boys to bed as I’ll just go out, and you can join me if you want.”

Just tell her you're going to cancel the plans and then cancel them. Say nothing more about it. Don't pine away about how much you wanted to go with her (pursuit). Learn to be VERY brief with her.

[Bo562]

One thing you need to understand is in her current mindset, everything is your fault and you can do nothing right and everything wrong. I'm sorry to say it's only going to continue getting worse from here. My suggestion would be that since you're both under the same roof and effectively are in an IHS then you come up with a schedule for watching S. You agree to be home certain evenings by a certain time so she can go do stuff and vice versa, she agrees to be home certain nights so you can do what you want.

She needs me so much and talks about walking on our marriage vows?

I think you're getting confused, she doesn't "need" you as a husband, just as someone to do errands, watch the kids and take care of other beta stuff.

If she challenges me about this weekend’s dinner, I’ll say “I’m sorry you feel that way. I was really looking forward to having dinner with you then, as I made reservations. If you don’t want to go, you don’t have to, but that means you can put the boys to bed as I’ll just go out, and you can join me if you want.”

Just tell her you're going to cancel the plans and then cancel them. Say nothing more about it. Don't pine away about how much you wanted to go with her (pursuit). Learn to be VERY brief with her.

Fair enough. I should remember that she doesn’t really ‘need’ me as a husband—rather, I’m a glorified roommate, and act accordingly.

Also fair. If she asks or complains, I’ll just say ‘okay, I’ll cancel the reservations.’ Boom, be done.

[AnotherStander]

Fair enough. I should remember that she doesn’t really ‘need’ me as a husband—rather, I’m a glorified roommate, and act accordingly.

Exactly! And that is NOT AT ALL fair to you, it's a horrible way to treat someone you swore to love honor and cherish, right? But here we are. You just have to remember who/ what you are dealing with right now, it's not your formerly loving and loyal wife. It's like a stranger moved in.

Also fair. If she asks or complains, I’ll just say ‘okay, I’ll cancel the reservations.’ Boom, be done.

Precisely. And just be neutral about it, you don't want it to sound mean/ vindictive or passive/aggressive. You want it to sound like you really don't care one way or the other.

[Bo562]

/journaling

20 minutes on the bike:
5.2 miles
234 calories

20 sits up (hooking my feet under the wire baskets under the desks REALLY help)
30 push-ups (Imagining some pretty young thing under me while I’m doing the push-ups REALLY helps, too)

MIL (W’s mom) was over today, helping out with YS.

At dinner, W asks me about Saturday (everyone’s there—kids, MIL), and I’m paraphrasing: “So what time does my mom need to be here [for babysitting]? Did you make a reservation or do we just show up? You haven’t told me any details about it so I don’t know...”

A more loving (and probably less passive-aggressive, or at least less angry / annoyed) way to do this would have been to say “So, what time is our reservation for Saturday night? Okay, so that means my mom needs to be here....”.

Or she could just say what she said above. Or better yet at least not do that in front of everyone else. I probably deserve a 2x4 for not calling her out on this in the moment, but probably not the thing to do in front of the kids and her mom.

Whatever. I know confusion reigns supreme in the mind and heart of a woman like this, but one night she’s bent about going out in general. The next? Asking when are the reservations.

I know NO EXPECTATIONS, but I may as well say them here so there not bouncing around my head: Afraid I’m going to get an R talk at some point Saturday night. Sex? OMG YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING NO, even though it would be nice, but yeah right.

/venting: I know that W is nowhere close to normal right now, but man I’m sure that there are plenty of women in my age range who would love to go out on a Saturday night for sushi in Newport Coast with a flawed-but-trying-to-get-it-together man who is youngish (in his 30’s), is decent-looking and is good with kids (teacher, plus 2 kids of his own). Instead, I presently have a woman who complained about me even making reservations and trying to take some sort of initiative. I know A/S mentioned this above, but yeah pretty much everything I do is wrong at this point.

Totally want a woman who appreciates me, who wants to be with me, and wants to not just sleep next to me but sleep with me.

Didn’t think I was asking too much 7 years ago—especially when she was so hot to get married. Today and tonight I see glimpses of the woman that I married. Deep inside, she’s still kinda there. But practically speaking, I know she’s gone.

[neffer]

Patience Bo. Remember it´s a marathon. Let the pressure out. Detach and GAL.

[AnotherStander]

/hooking my feet under the wire baskets under the desks REALLY help

Sure it does. That's why it's called "cheating" Unassisted butterfly situps will work your core more. But doing anything is certainly better than nothing!

I probably deserve a 2x4 for not calling her out on this in the moment, but probably not the thing to do in front of the kids and her mom.

Not really because that would have just caused a fight in front of everyone. But the real lesson here is this:

I know A/S mentioned this above, but yeah pretty much everything I do is wrong at this point.

Yup. So quit doing stuff that makes you a lightning rod. PULL BACK and give her TIME AND SPACE. You are around her way too much, and you are pursuing her way too much. You've already gone too far down the road to call off this "date" but let this be a lesson to you- NO MORE DATES. It's not helping your sitch at all, in fact it is hurting because it's preventing you from detaching and preventing her from getting the time and space to figure her crap out.

Afraid I’m going to get an R talk at some point Saturday night.

If you do then listen and validate. She may tell you she's filing divorce papers tomorrow. Just nod and tell her you will watch for them. She may say she hates you. Tell her you understand why she would feel that way. The point is, let her talk. Don't make the typical WAS mistake of promising her the moon, telling her how terrible you are and begging forgiveness. Be strong, not needy.

Sex? OMG YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING NO, even though it would be nice, but yeah right.

You seem pretty fixated on sex in your posts. Like I said earlier, be patient. That will come with time. With her or with someone else. You can live without it for now. In fact it would be a good idea to abstain for a while to teach yourself that indeed, you can live without it. If you learn nothing else from all of this you should learn patience, discipline, and control over yourself, your body and your needs.

[SoTorn]

Hey I am with you in missing sex BADLY. This is the longest I have gone without in 21 years.

[Bo562]

Thanks A/S.

I’ll look into the butterfly sit-ups and try them out and put them in the rotation. Considering push-ups and sit-ups have not been an area of strength (literally and figuratively) for me in the past, might as well try. And yes, doing something is better than nothing, at least in this respect.

Even though it looks otherwise, I feel like I’ve been trying my best in pulling back and giving her time and space. This is our first outing together since late August. We eat dinner as a family most nights, and we have family outings, but her and I have had very little one-on-one time together for a while. What I’m especially dreading the most is that we have spent so little time together than it doesn’t feel like we know how to talk to each other right now—just awkward. I’ve been leaving her the h*** alone.

We were supposed to go out back in mid-October—the very night when we had that chat about how she was still unhappy and floated the idea of a ‘break’ or S. Instead, that night, she wanted to order-in or get take-out or something, and then we talked and I then felt like s***. I’ve been waiting for her to say that her mom would take the boys to her place and then we’d have the night alone at our place—with the expectation that she can do something like that again. At least the MIL taking the boys part isn’t happening this time around (instead she’s coming here to watch them). Most nights, especially the last month or so, I’ve been up late grading (being out 3.5 weeks for paternity leave hampered my progress grading—so I was playing a semester-long game of catch-up). Last night? I was up late reading out on the couch in the living room while she fed YS, put him to bed, and then showered.

Tomorrow, she is giving me a gift and she doesn’t even know it. Her, her mom, and the boys will be going to the park for a hike. Me? GAL. Exercise, walk to the library and read, walk to the coffee shop and get some coffee, run a couple of errands. I have some Christmas $, and I’ll plan on getting some books: No More Mr. Nice Guy, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F***, and The Art of Seduction (I know I’m a ways off from needing that one, but might as well start reading it now to implement these things over time).

But yes, you’re right—NO MORE DATES. At least not anytime soon, for that matter. It was probably a Catch-22: plan something and take the initiative? PURSUING, LEAVE ME ALONE. Don’t plan something? OMG ARE WE GOING OUT FOR OUR ANNIVERSARY DON’T YOU CARE?!?!?!? Earlier tonight she asked the name of the place where we’re going, and where it is. So, who knows.

She really doesn’t know what the h*** she wants, really.

In the event that I get the R talk, I’ll do my best to validate, and I’ll consult the cheat-sheet. My favorites have been “that’s unfortunate,” and “I’m sorry to hear that.” But yeah, gonna need more here. I already tried the typical WAS playbook back in February—that got me NOWHERE, and I don’t plan on doing it again. Operate from a position of strength—be strong, not needy. I also know (and am grateful) that my sitch is not nearly as dire as others’, but I also know that that could change at any time.

The posting about sex? It’s what it is, and just where I’m at right now—I’m not gonna go all beta or NGS and apologize. It’s weird—normally I’m not as vocal about sex, and W mentioned in the past how unhappy it made her that I wouldn’t always talk about it, or desire it or her as much as she wanted. Last time W and I had sex was about a month-and-a-half ago, so I know—it could be worse, and I only got that because we went to a birthday party for one of her coworkers and she got totally hammered, and I just wore her down about it.

I guess for me, this could be part of the 180. It helps that in this forum I can journal, get feedback, and talk with (mostly) other men who are or have been in something close to my sitch. I think also working out more gets the sexual energy flowing, but also for me just looking around and seeing all the really attractive, lovely women around me gives me hope for the future and awakens within me the desire for something more. I’m just not really into the W right now—if she asks for sex, sure, but even I know it won’t bring her back around and make everything good. I’m not that naive.

But you are correct—I can live without it for now and the immediate future. I mean, I’ve done it before—periodic abstinence for when we practiced NFP, and W and I were both virgins when we married (explains so much I know). Patience, discipline, and control over myself, my body and my needs will serve me well no matter what—they have brought me rather far in life so far, and are good values to live by as a Catholic, but honestly no matter what your belief system is. I’m sure prayer can help, too—I can’t totally pray it away, but I hope it will help. Work all the angles I can.

I can put this energy to use for the boys, for my work, and for making myself AMOAFWL.