My WAS - looking help and thanks in advance PART 5

[Phoenix9]

I got caught up on your sitch. Your WW is all over the damn place lol. With mine, the OM is in another state and is easy access when WW travels. I honestly feel that she is ok with that right now. WW hasnt even hinted on R with me. WW was doing the crazy calling, texting a few times, but once I stopped responding to her and answering her calls she stopped. I was getting those temp checks last week of "You never talk to me, you never respond to me". My WW is very stubborn and honestly I think she is borderline bi-polar.

Same here. Lots of sniffing when I first went to very little contact to no-contact. Then...stopped. In my experience, WW has asked why I'm ignoring her, being cold to her, etc. Expect more of these and increase in desperation for them to elicit a response. See my thread for an example of what was pulled on me two days ago.

Unfortunately, I feel that even if I DB perfectly, my WW will never pursue me and try to R. Therefore, I am just DBing to protect my emotions and ready myself for the D and me moving on completely. I am getting there. Its a rough road.

Nothing is guaranteed and you know that already. All you can do is control yourself and prepare yourself how to handle whatever WW throws your way. Just like ovr did. His delivery to WW was perfect. It was firm, powerful, and earnest. If WW came to you all of a sudden would you be able to respond the same way? I'd venture to say no. I know I cannot yet.

It is a rough road, but you have company.

[SoTorn]

I got caught up on your sitch. Your WW is all over the damn place lol. With mine, the OM is in another state and is easy access when WW travels. I honestly feel that she is ok with that right now. WW hasnt even hinted on R with me. WW was doing the crazy calling, texting a few times, but once I stopped responding to her and answering her calls she stopped. I was getting those temp checks last week of "You never talk to me, you never respond to me". My WW is very stubborn and honestly I think she is borderline bi-polar.

Same here. Lots of sniffing when I first went to very little contact to no-contact. Then...stopped. In my experience, WW has asked why I'm ignoring her, being cold to her, etc. Expect more of these and increase in desperation for them to elicit a response. See my thread for an example of what was pulled on me two days ago.

Unfortunately, I feel that even if I DB perfectly, my WW will never pursue me and try to R. Therefore, I am just DBing to protect my emotions and ready myself for the D and me moving on completely. I am getting there. Its a rough road.

Nothing is guaranteed and you know that already. All you can do is control yourself and prepare yourself how to handle whatever WW throws your way. Just like ovr did. His delivery to WW was perfect. It was firm, powerful, and earnest. If WW came to you all of a sudden would you be able to respond the same way? I'd venture to say no. I know I cannot yet.

It is a rough road, but you have company.

Honestly I got a temp check text from WW a couple of weeks ago saying "What do you want me to do? What do you want?". I said "I already explained to you what I wanted and your actions continued to show disrespect. Your actions speak louder than your words, so as of now, your words mean jack"

I got an "ok" response to that.

I have no expectations that my WW will come back and say she wants to work on us. As of now she is too far gone into the A and her la la fantasy grass is greener land. I honestly feel that it would take me leaving and filing for D to elicit any sort of reaction from her, but at that point it wouldnt be to elicit a reaction, it would be for me to cut ties and move forward.

I am getting really comfortable being a "single" man. I look way better than I have in a long time. I changed my FB status to single and I have had no less than five women start talking me up. As of now I set a boundary with the women that reach out to me propositioning a date that I am open to meeting new people and happy to make new friends but as of now my goal is friends, but that could change in the future.

[Phoenix9]

Honestly I got a temp check text from WW a couple of weeks ago saying "What do you want me to do? What do you want?". I said "I already explained to you what I wanted and your actions continued to show disrespect. Your actions speak louder than your words, so as of now, your words mean jack"

I think the more seasoned vets can give you some words to provide next time she asks that. I would keep the response as short as responsible. Something to the point of where you address that you don't need or want her to do anything. You are focused on yourself and your kids. She made her bed, she can lie in it.

I have no expectations that my WW will come back and say she wants to work on us. As of now she is too far gone into the A and her la la fantasy grass is greener land. I honestly feel that it would take me leaving and filing for D to elicit any sort of reaction from her, but at that point it wouldnt be to elicit a reaction, it would be for me to cut ties and move forward.

Good thing you're saying that. Saying it out loud is the first step towards believing and living it. That gets reinforced when you assume that WW is noticing the changes and she shows "signs" but continues her WW ways. That's when you start believing the things you are doing are changing you into AMOAFWL. If WW does not see that, then some other lucky lady will.

I am getting really comfortable being a "single" man. I look way better than I have in a long time.

Keep up the good work. This is a marathon. Make the changes permanent.

[SoTorn]

Ya that's the anger coming out. I am working hard on that and my word choices. It's hard to not show anger when you are actively angry. But I have bee doing much better. PMA.

As of now I truly believe that WW will file for D soon. I have accepted that and that I will be fine. My legal services I get as a benefit from work kick in on the 1st. Going to L up asap and wait for it. I am going to look at condos this weekend.

[Adam04]

Hey guys,

So I went totally no contact, no responding to anything, and went out and enjoyed myself over the weekend and Christmas. I needed some space b/c she was really hurting me and I was letting her. Christmas Eve started the parade of texts, pics, calls. All ignored. All about missing me and how things are hard for her. Christmas Day was the same, then W left her parents house and showed up at our house in the morning to talk.

I told her I'd had enough of her lies, deceit, disrespect and that I'm not doing it anymore. She did a lot of crying, said she wanted to try again. I said I don't and can't trust her and that I'm done living like that. Told her I know she went to OM's house (his parent's house since that's where he lives - POS) and when and how she lied to me all those times plus this month and also back in June, July, Sept, Oct and that it's disgusting and that's just who she is now. She said that's not who she is and I said BS. That's exactly who she is so why should I do this again? Asked her how I could ever trust her. I let her come up with some ideas and threw in some of my own.

Long story short she's agreed to:
1. MC - told her is she makes excuses not to go then it's over.
2. OM - told her she can call him in front of me and tell him it's over. Going to do this tonight.
3. Location app - I can see where she is b/c she's always lied about where she was going.
4. Get rid of Snapchat. It's all deleted so how would I know she isn't contacting OM?
5. Treatment of me has to be better.

So I didn't go back with her to her parent's house, I went on with my Christmas Day plans and went hunting all day yesterday which I already had planned.

So here we are, I'm going to have to just stick to my guns and she can't do it then she can't do it. That's where I am at mentally, just tired of the pain and I'm not gonna give in or gloss over things anymore. That is definitely the dumbest thing, and I know that from experience.

Any advice is appreciated.

Do not backslide. This is how you DB.


PS: Nice balls!

I had to lol at that compliment!

ovrrnbw, showing some love bro. thanks for posting on my sitch. I am reading yours from the start and have to say, this is a huge turn around from the beginning.

Keep the DB going.

[NicoleR]

Hi Ovrrnbw, I'm trying to get caught up here and I'm really confused by your latest updates! The last I think I wrote on your thread it sounded like you and your wife had reconciled, were in counseling, she had broken up with OM and had moved back in with you and things had been going well, etc... I remember you asking how to win her respect but it sounds like she's since moved out again and she's back with OM but still trying to be with you? It sounds like you're doing the right thing by not putting up with any of her tactics and showing her you're serious. You might even want to go further and let her worry a bit more that you're considering ending the marriage permanently. It sounds like this has been going on long enough and it's great that you're truly ready to show her you're serious this time. I hope everything works out! I hope when it comes down to it she gets cornered and realizes the double life and back-and-forth isn't an option anymore. Good for you!

[BluWave]

Ovr,

It seems as if you and your WW are holding two opposite ends of a long rope, and there is this endless game of tug of war, however no one is winning and yet no one will drop the rope, and so it goes, on and on. I have seen you guys take turns pulling each other in, loosening the grip, and then you get tired of the game for a bit, and think about letting go, she senses it, and then she pulls you in even closer! But somehow, you are the one working, much harder than her, and your grip is weakening over time, because the game keeps starting over with no break in between. Why do you think that could be? What do you think is different this time?

Have you read all the most recent threads by Joe2017?

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2826945#Post2826945

I hope you will read all of it if you haven't yet, and if you have, perhaps read it again. He dropped the rope and let her go. He disengaged from it all and took the time to really heal and grow on his own. She learned over that time that her life wasn't better without him, and she also learned in that time that he no longer needed her. She grew to respect him after he dropped the rope and so she was forced to look at her own decisions. Even after D and many months she came back. And she came back a changed woman. The way he describes her is very different than the way you are describing your WW -- a couple days of tears and pleading, which I recall she has done more than once now. Also note that he is not the one giving her a list of conditions, but it is her that is doing the real work now. She is doing the work because she is truly remorseful now and can only hope he will give her a solid chance, and she even admits she thinks he may not be able to forgive her and make it work. Overall, she reads very, very different from your WW.

I am not suggesting that you have to go through D and a long separation for reconciliation to be successful. But I do think the WW has to be ready to work hard in order to start piecing, and you haven't explained yet how she is there (other than crying and agreeing to your list of conditions). In my sitch, my H also had to go off for a long while (10 months) and face his reality without me. In that time I had to drop the rope because, well, he didn't give me much choice in the matter. So I learned to let go. When he approached me, he read much like Joe2017 WW: he was remorseful, humble, and wanted nothing more than to proove his worthiness, while also admitting he knew it may never work and I may never forgive him. He freely offered up his own list of conditions. Then he stuck to them for weeks, months and years, with actions.

I still, after all that, think I took him back too easily and too quickly. These last 3.5 years of piecing have been so hard and so bumpy, and I think it was made harder because I didn't take enough of my own time. For me. I hope you will take more time. Time is always on our side. And I mean a long, long time. You don't want to jump back in just to end up back here in a couple years. I still think you both have a lot of growing up to do.

Blu

[joejoe1]

Ovr,

Blu hit the nail on the head. I'm in the same opinion as her. I think I could have taken a more time for myself before my wife and I decided to move forward with our M. I has been bumpy, but we are moving along. Give yourself time, please.

Your WW is pulling your right back in. She plays the same script and plays on you. She senses you pulling away then she comes in hard making declarations and you sit back and wait to see if she fulfills them. That play has worked on you multiple times. You have to let go this time, you have to fully drop the rope. Your WW knows what your boundaries are. Instead of telling her what she needs to do, this time you move forward with your life until she shows you with action that she is going to respect you and your boundaries. You have given her countless amount of chances with no changes from her. So, IMHO it's time to shut down her playbook and you need to move forward, with or without her. If she is really serious about being with you, she will come chasing, while at the same time putting in the work. But as long as your are sitting back waiting, she doesn't have to put in any work and she knows that. And she knows you are waiting because you have now told her if she does XY&Z then you will consider the M.

I also loved that you stood up for yourself as well and made your demands clear!!!!!!

Work on healing yourself. Find a way to let go of the anger, I didn't give myself time to heal properly and I'm still holding on to anger. It has caused a lot of setbacks for my Sitch.

If you truly love your W, you will let go of that rope that you and her have been tugging on, so she can grow and you can heal!!!!! The hardest steps in loving a person is not the holding on part, it will always be the letting go!!!!!

[Gordie]

Over

So I think your Christmas talk was an ultimatum

Have you had ultimatums before

The MWD advice is only give the ultimatum if you can go through with it

Agree with Blue and Joe that your job here is to drop the rope

And let her do the work of doing the right things

Because she wants to do them

Not because you are demanding them and keeping score

As you know I was DBing for two years before my ultimatum last Christmas

And then I gave her time and space to do the work

Drop the OM

Drop the legal proceedings

Transparency into her online and IRL whereabouts

Re engaging with children

Re engaging with me

All of this has taken much more patience than expected

Things can improve but very slowly

And not on your timeline

She has to do the work

So keep working on you

And pray for patience

I love Blu because of her candor on the difficulty of piecing

I think I expected quick and dramatic improvement

But it has not been like that for me

That is why they say set expectations at zero

[ovrrnbw]

Hey everyone, I needed a break from my sitch. I have a couple responses and updates.

Nicole,

We had kinda reconciled, but not really I guess. My W would call it "trying". My W never moved out fully, always just packed a bag for a few days.

Why do you think that could be? What do you think is different this time?

I think I'm starting to see her for what she is and not what I want her to be. I think I am getting tired of the waywardness. Or are you saying I just have let her jump from OM's bed back to the MB?

I certainly need to look at my patterns here and break the negative ones. It's obvious I'm not fully detached, but I'm getting better, truly. There was something I got a little worried about a couple weeks ago, but I didn't say anything to her. A couple days later I found out what it was, and it wasn't what I thought. I was very relieved and it made me realize why we LBS's shouldn't be trying to mind read much.

Joe, thanks for the comment. It is hard to stand up for ourselves sometimes, but that's part of killing the inner NGS and stating what you want and being a clear, strong person. I have been trying to let go of all my old anger, mainly by not allowing myself to dwell on it and trying to 180 on the grudge holding I used to do. I may go back to IC just to vent and hear some perspective and get help on losing some of those negative traits I learned from my dad.

Gordie, I didn't think I was giving her an ultimatum, but now I see that it may have come off that way. I remember what MWD said in her book about ultimatums.

Just today, I was thinking about the positives that would occur if me and W ended up divorced, there are several. But obviously I don't know if that will happen or not. Plenty of negatives there too. But it won't be as bad as I thought 6 months ago.

When she first came back, we were intimate and having sex in the first 10 days or so. I remember thinking, this means nothing during it and that made it less fun. Then W got on her period and we haven't done anything since then. We had a good New Years, stayed at an air bnb near the lake bar we like. But now the intimacy has slowed a little bit, no sex in a couple weeks. I think she is having ups and downs. Or maybe she was just being manipulative in the beginning. We'll see if I'm forgetting anything if my sister reads this post and reminds me.

W is still wearing her ring, even though she had it off for a couple of days after we were doing snow plow work (24 hours straight) with FIL. I noticed it and said something, she said she forgot. Maybe that's true, maybe not. W wants to sell the house soon and get going on the next one. It'd be easier to do if our MR wasn't in the gutter, but I guess we are charging forward. I haven't really decided much on if it matters or not.

W is still not ready to face the reality and own up to her stuff. I think I read AnotherStander posting once that it takes a long time before most WW's come to grips with that. If AnotherStander reads this, maybe he can remind of his thoughts and experience there.

My GAL has kind of slowed down, I haven't seen any friends in a while. With the new job starting I've had to do lots of online training and find office space. Very excited to get started though.

Hope you all are doing well and thanks for following my story.

Should be starting MC soon. We will see how it goes.