Milestones of Moving On (?)

[burned]

an annoyance... on his back, not giving him a chance, like he can't do anything right.

Do you know the song “baby beluga” from preschool? Just sing “passive aggressive” to the same tune, and laugh it off. You deserve better than a man-child like that.

[TJT]

Okay so I have to run to an errand right now but here's what happened in a nutshell at my IL's. This all just came out, I didn't ask anything and to be honest once my MIL started talking I felt like I needed to know these things so I didn't stop her...

1) Found out H brought OW over to their place for Thanksgiving! MIL didn't know this would happen. Her and H have been butting heads for a while so my H isn't being so forthcoming with her (also he knows his mom isn't happy about the whole sitch anyway). Apparently she took him aside and they talked some things out but she was just like "thanks for the heads up on this girl" and he was just like "it is what it is".

2) MIL stated how OW obviously seems like a teenager. "Feisty" and "flirty" is what she said, and that she can't really "figure her out".

3) MIL stated she isn't sure if it's going to last. Also verified that my H seems to have done this kind of thing in the past with other girlfriends or even to some extent with his XW. MIL is kind of all over the place when she talks so it's hard to get specifics, but apparently she did say that my H also talked to his FIL and admitted to him about the A and that he had OW at our house and that he will "regret it for the rest of his life". I don't know if this means he will regret having her at the house (the whole "you're only sorry you got caught" kind of thing), or if he actually regrets the affair...my theory is the former, becauuuuseee *drumroll*

4) MIL confirmed that they have now moved in together. My H's friend rented out his house to him and then his friend is now staying at an apartment! Like, man, I hope my friends are that ride or die for me. Do you see what I mean when I say H surrounds himself with people who he manages to just "get by" one way or another, no matter what shotty situation he gets himself into?? This being said I don't know if his friend knows about OW or that she's moved in, but I have to think he does and even if not, still. This dude JUST bought that house and I doubt he's getting a profit off of my H in renting it. I don't know if there's a time limit he's given him to stay, or what.

5) This raises so many more questions for me now, obviously. And validates other fears, too. WTF is going on in H's son's head? WTF is going on with this girl moving in with a grown man who has a teenage child?? HOW IS THIS WORKING? WHY IS IT WORKING?!

6) MIL confirmed he did go hunting... with OW's stepdad and her. Apparently her stepdad loves him. MORE WTF.

Nobody still knows what's going on with filing. They are not sure if OW knows that he really isn't divorced or what story is being told there. My IL's parents who have been living with them for some time have both expressed they don't approve of this whole thing since we are still married. I get the impression they do want us to make it work, but of course I don't know how much will ever be said to my H about their thoughts on this. My MIL did confirm to me also that my FIL (who was not there today unfortunately, I really did want to see him) said he absolutely does not think we should D and that my H should be with OW. But like, again, what is anyone gonna do?

I am so frustrated and upset, and my MIL did sort of allude to whether she wonders if someone will start talking in my H's ear about divorce and giving him ideas outside of what me and H agreed on back when allll this started to come up (which was him keeping his stuff and me keeping mine, and me taking the house after he realized he didn't want it and would be fine signing it over to me). I don't think H would just be like "oh yeah great idea let me start a D battle" but now I am just scared and once again wondering if I should just file for the legal protections and to get it over with before anyone starts a S-storm.

But definitely wholeheartedly, despite everything I heard today and after talking with my MIL, I still have hope that they will get further and further down this path and it will blow up and maybe he will come back, so emotionally I'm still not to like the point of "I MUST D" but it's SUPER DUPER FREAKING HARD hearing everything about how he's literally living his life just like it's all normal and almost just like when he met me. MIL even said OW favors me a lot in looks.

I have a related fear that I am never going to get over my H unless someone else comes and sweeps ME off my feet, which I don't want that to be the case. I want to be over my H and then meet someone new so that person never has to question. But also I would totally love someone who understands what I'm going through and who could basically assure me that I'm not crazy and I deserve better and who is willing to BE better.

So I am in a whirlwind of thoughts right now. I need you guys and your thoughts. I know a lot of things I shouldn't do that I'm thinking of doing, and that probably the best reaction is going to be the same darn thing - NOTHING. But dear god how badly I want to send her all the letters he ever wrote me, show up at their house and have a come to jesus with everyone, write him a love letter telling him I'm still here for him even though he's being an idiot and when crap gets rough he'll know who he can really rely on... all the STUPIDEST ideas in the world. But the sad part is now when I'm starting to think those thoughts, I've also started to think, FINE! If it ruins my DBing, so what! I need SOMETHING to happen, I can't just let all this go, right?!

Yes I KNOW I need to let it all go. I know I have to. I know most of that stuff will not help even though I do fantasize that maybe I'll catch him at a weak point in sending a soft reminder of my love and commitment for him to where at least maybe it will put some doubt in his mind and plant a seed.

Basically guys I need your help right now. I need your advice and reassurance on how to handle all of what I've just learned and all of my thoughts and what to do next.

Also I leave for a quick trip with my dad tomorrow AM which I guess might be great timing but with all the anxiety that's come back up now I just feel more anxious in having to take the dog somewhere and go sleep somewhere else but my own safe home and bed for a few nights. I feel like I'm half hyperventilating, like not quite freaking out but taking very shallow breaths and scatterbrained.

WHY!!!

[TJT]

an annoyance... on his back, not giving him a chance, like he can't do anything right.

Do you know the song “baby beluga” from preschool? Just sing “passive aggressive” to the same tune, and laugh it off. You deserve better than a man-child like that.

Lol. I don't know if I do remember that song (I'll definitely look it up later tonight when I'm back at computer).

I also agree with you. And it makes me burst into tears why I can't FEEL that way. Who am I and why am I putting myself through this?!

[burned]

Here's what I think. This isn't the candy-coated empathetic version, either. No time for that right now.

Your H is an immature f**khead who thinks that the rules of society don't apply to him. His parents are SUSPECT because unless he's adopted, let's assume there's something about THEM that resulted in him being the way he is. Sounds to me like whatever "advice" you got from them is cold comfort. And honestly, if the man's own parents look at him and go "I dunno WTF is wrong with him" then that's a bad, bad sign. As for OW's stepdad, let's go ahead and assume that he's a useless piece of trash.

What's the lesson to be learned here? Why do the DB pros preach detachment? Time to put the in-laws in the back of the fridge. They'll be there when things improve, but for now they're just salt in the wound.

YOU are a motherf**king bad@ss who is holding her life together under the most extreme circumstances. Right now you're coping with what many consider to be one of the most extremely stressful life events that can ever befall a human being. And you appear to be holding it together well enough to survive. Aren't you proud of yourself?

Obviously I'm not the right person to ask "should I file for D" but you don't sound like it's what you want. Is it what you SHOULD want? Not for me to decide.

What you SHOULD want, in my not-so-humble opinion, is to figure out why a guy like this still has your heart in his slimy hands. Not your H, but this sleazeball who looks just like him on the outside.

Why doesn't bad@ss TJT realize that she deserves something much better than that? Why isn't bad@ss TJT angry yet? What fear is it that makes bad@ss TJT feel stuck in this cruddy situation?

OK, now some empathy. Life just took a huge dump on you. If anyone can even begin to imagine how awful you must feel right now, it's the people here. But that doesn't make it any easier. Is there something you can do tonight to soothe yourself? Do you like filet-o-fish sandwiches and sprite? Or ice cream straight out of the tub?

It is SUPER DUPER FREAKING HARD as is anything worthwhile in life. Would you be here otherwise? Consider how a "normal" person would have handled this, and then consider what it says about YOU that you're here trying to do the RIGHT thing for a person who is doing what that man is doing. (Believe me, I have to do the same kind of soul-searching and it's not easy.)

Maybe someone will come sweep you off your feet. Maybe that person will have gone through a similar ordeal. Maybe they'll know the worth of someone like you. I can tell you that I've been on the lookout for grocery carts with dog food and beer. So far nothing, but I doubt you live anywhere near me. I don't mean anything by that except THERE IS SOMEONE FOR YOU out there who will think you are a bad@ss lady and they WILL sweep you off your feet because they'll see the good in you and it will be impossible for them not to.

When? Not today. Tomorrow? Maybe. That's as far as you need to think about for now.

And it makes me burst into tears why I can't FEEL that way. Who am I and why am I putting myself through this?!

Give it time. Emotions take much longer to catch up with reality. Don't blame yourself. Be compassionate with yourself. For tonight...treat yo'self.

[Yail]

Also I leave for a quick trip with my dad tomorrow AM which I guess might be great timing but with all the anxiety that's come back up now I just feel more anxious in having to take the dog somewhere and go sleep somewhere else but my own safe home and bed for a few nights. I feel like I'm half hyperventilating, like not quite freaking out but taking very shallow breaths and scatterbrained.

You wrote a very long post, but in this moment I need you to only focus on fixing this piece. Anxiety attacks are no joke and you need to identify and implement ways of calming yourself down. This is only about you and this is self-care. He is secondary, and not of your immediate concern. YOU are number 1. Be good to yourself.

For me, I try to be sure I cry a periodically so the tension doesn't build up. I've actually become super-aware of this and made SURE I cry a bit every day otherwise I find myself getting really, really angry. Little releases throughout the day. Also, if I'm feeling super anxious I call someone just to chat about BS (usually mom, SIL, or BFF). Heck, find any way you can to release the tension (run. eat. cry. drive. locate some AA batteries. just don't let it build).

I know these aren't answers. You might not have answers for how to best handle this all. But you can have positive steps to take to make your journey as constructive as possible.

[TJT]

I wrote a super long post but I'm tired of writing super long posts that most people have a hard time getting through.

The short story is I talked with my mom for quite a while and I feel a little better. I appreciate and have thoughtful responses to what you both have said, burned and Yail, but I want to work on refining it or at least posting it in smaller chunks so that I don't keep losing people in my thoughts.

I'm also really tired at this point and I have to get up early for my flight tomorrow. So I guess it may even be next week before I get to responding.

In the meantime I think it is important to acknowledge that I think the answer to the question "what am I afraid of" is actually answered by another thing you said, burned - that emotions take time to catch up with reality. And after crying in my car in the dark in the garage, reading the post again, and thinking very hard about what AM I afraid of given everything is pretty bad and I don't really have control over anything at this point, I realize that I think it's that I am afraid of losing my H.... and yes, I've basically already actually lost him, but I haven't actually fully accepted that yet I don't think. I've tried very hard and I have great days where I'm very aware he is not here, but I'm not completely and peacefully letting him go, 100%. And thus I feel afraid of losing more than what I even have in reality.

And that realization is pushing me to consider whether filing may be the answer here. I don't feel like I want it now but if I feel like crap either way, then why not?? At least I will be doing something DIFFERENT than what I've been doing up to this point, which doesn't seem to be helping anything. H is living his life and doesn't seem bothered by NC and is meeting new family members - why do I think any of this is going to turn around the longer I wait? My mom seems to think even if this thing doesn't last with OW, he won't be coming back to me, he'll just be finding the next OW... and I'm starting to believe that too.

Has anyone had experience here or know someone who ended up filing, and then the filing ended up helping them to move on? Along with the legal paranoia I now have, since H has done great at proving me wrong every time I try to give him credit for something, it would at least give me finality on SOMETHING, and maybe the fact that afterward it will straight up be an emotional issue at that point without any formalities left about it, I will feel better about choosing to let go of him if there are no other "barriers" there? Does that make any kind of sense?

P.S. Yail I am planning on focusing very much on myself the next few days. Burned, filet-o-fish is where you lost me, YUCK, haha. But Sprite and ice cream (separately, that is) I am on board with. I did shamelessly go to Whataburger the other day and I've been eating pizza rolls during the work week like every day for lunch. At first I was afraid the stress eating/treating myself would end up in weight gain, but I've actually learned that it's just a good thing I'm eating at this point.

[TJT]

Hi everyone.

I just wanted to provide an update. And some news, which entails a long post to get you call caught up.

First, I still had not received H's portion of bill money so today I texted him to simply ask when he would be sending it. He said tomorrow but then a minute later texted again and said he just sent it, and I did receive it.

I also asked when I could expect the next payment (for January) because I wanted to plan for HOA dues and would need to make sure the other bills are covered. He said he would give that from his next paycheck.

That was the end of that, but since my last post I went on a little trip like I mentioned, which was good and bad at the same time. I really liked spending time with some extended family. But I did ruminate a lot about everything I've learned recently about H and OW. I caught up one family member who hadn't yet gotten all the details and basically said what everyone else does about how they would not be able to deal with someone who did that to them anymore.

While on the trip I got a text from H's son saying thank you for his birthday card and thinking of him, and to have a Merry Christmas. My dad also texted him on his b-day and got a text back that basically said the same thing but also "Have a blessed Christmas". I had to analyze that one because he NEVER use the word "blessed" as long as I've known him. Me and my H are not really religious, although we do not have anything against those who are. But wouldn't you know it, OW is (and I know from when I looked in the past on her SM) that she uses the word "blessed" so now I'm like wow, are they suddenly enlightened and going to become a totally different family now because of her? Has my H suddenly decided to sign up for church? I mean I'm sure he could use something like that at this point! But it's probably just more lies, lies, lies. Everything they are doing is in some alternate universe. And also, pretty sure OW and my H in that case are going to hell. Just saying.

So I came back and talked with my mom who also is super POed and ruminating like I was all weekend. She is also frustrated with the ILs and how they don't seem to be confronting H about his behavior. I agree that if I had a child who was married and bringing another person over all of a sudden that I would probably be like, what the heck are you doing right now? Get your stuff straight and take responsibility for your current situation.

Is that not reasonable? I know family is family but is it normal for a family to be so passive when someone like their grown son is clearly doing things that do not seem responsible? I mean if it was a less important decision I get that parents can't control their grown-@$$ children...but when it's life-changing stuff, and seemingly in a negative direction, isn't there a normal expectation that they would say something about it?

My mom continues to try to understand my thought process and be frustrated with why I'm not just washing my hands of this and walking away. She says these things happen all the time basically, and why can't I get past it or just be angrier and realize all the hurtful things he's continuing to do with another woman. In my mind there HAVE to be bigger issues there given the details and layers of our relationship and this sitch, unless I'm really such a chump that the only difference is he got away with hiding his crazy from me longer than with others? I don't know. But I don't disagree with her and hate being in this in-between of wanting to make my marriage work and wanting to believe in someone and forgive them, while also acknowledging that I should never have to deal with something like this from anyone.

The bottom line is that the more I find out, the more it seems to prove to me that he is not having any second thoughts. Of course I have no way to know that, but given what I know about him and the issues we had in our M regarding his inability to confront things proactively, I feel pretty confident that even if he is having second thoughts, he's not going to put in the work to start undoing the path that he's started to go down. I was thinking about this more the other night and how maybe he felt damned if he does, damned if he doesn't in terms of hurting either OW or me, and that because of the fact that he is so "used" to me it was simply easier to hurt me than it was for him to think about hurting a completely new person (OW). In weird way it makes sense to me. He'd rather save his reputation with a new person than save face with an "old" one who already knows he's flawed.

So I'm guessing that especially at this point, with her moving in and the both of them meeting each other's parents and crap, it would take a miracle for my H to suddenly be like "oh hey, I'm making a mistake here," to the extent that he would break up with her, which would now entail even more work on his side (kicking her out and judgment from her family now that they are acquainted, etc.)

Also, I don't get why suddenly he's moved SO fast with her when it took him so long to move out and everything (and really only happened because I kicked him out). If this is what they wanted to do and neither of them were concerned about staying with their current partners, why didn't they plan this out and move out themselves earlier? I guess OW actually had moved out of her BF's house and was living with her parents, so recounting all of this just validates what we already know - my H is trying to be the hero and because he's able to get away with it because he has a lame friend who was willing to MOVE OUT OF HIS HOUSE for my H, he doesn't have to be responsible and do all the work for finding a place on his own, and now he can "save her" from her situation.

Legitimately I am so mad that friends and family just "let" him do these things. I'd like to think if I had a friend who was doing things like this, I'd be like ummm wth are you doing? And I certainly wouldn't disrupt my OWN life to make sure they had a place to stay when it's clear they need to get their priorities in order. It seems so many people have no integrity and are afraid to call things out when people around them act badly. I don't get it.

Yadda yadda - where I'm at today is this: I have felt consistently that the "wondering" about whether he will file and when and what's going on in his head has been a cloud over me. While I know the paperwork and the emotional part are separate, I do feel there is some level of emotion keeping me attached by way of still being legally married to him. It has made it too hard for me to detach, and I think that's because if I'm honest, I have been taking some level of "comfort" in us still being legally married, like it "means" something or would make it easier for H to come back to me if/when he were to make that decision.

I'm thinking now though that to H it means absolutely nothing... so with the recent news about his situation and now with new people getting involved in his life that I know nothing about, I've really started to get more scared than anything else about what will happen if other people he knows find out I have more money, or try to whisper in his ear about the house, etc. So I decided I need to file.

I've had a discussion with myself that similarly to us being married now but not really together, starting the paperwork or even actually being D doesn't change the possibility of future recon. I'm not sure if my H will see it that way but I can't worry about him anymore. He has started to go further and further down a path that continues to put me in a bad spot legally and financially, not to mention that continues to insult my worth emotionally.

I am still going to be watching to see when this all blows up and I may (or may not) still be there when it does...but I need to let my H know that I'm not willing to be a part of his bad "business" decisions, at the very least.

I filled out the petition online and submitted it today... I am wondering the best way to tell him that I've done it so he can sign the part he needs to sign, and also if I should say anything explaining what I've just explained to you all - that it doesn't mean I'm not still willing to work on our relationship, but that I'm not willing to stay legally tied given his behavior and the implications those things could have on me. I'm kind of hoping to create a moment that makes a statement about me starting to move in a certain direction so he knows I'm not just going to wait here forever or accept how he's making me look so stupid; that while I'm not fully 100% done, I'm starting to take steps.

I just don't feel like letting my H do what he wants with NC and no action on my part is going to do anything but allow him to keep avoiding the realities of life. And honestly, that seems to be the case with me too. I can't keep avoiding the reality of what he is doing and what that says about how he feels about me. As much as I want to keep making excuses for him and hoping there's a logical explanation and he'll snap out of it, I don't think that's healthy. I think I need to take this for what it is, at this moment, and stop making conjecture; to be okay with the things I've done to try to fight for it, to be okay with how I handle it going forward (knowing that it doesn't mean I have to be ugly or cold in the process), and to allow myself one less thing to be attached to as I try to live my own life, all the while knowing that I still get to decide if I am open to a future relationship with him should he turn around and want to work on it. But that's the only thing right now that can change any of this at this point - HIM.

[TJT]

I was just in the MLC forum and reading about others' MLCs. I saw so much stuff about people waiting it out for longer, and I FEEL like it's been a lot longer that I've been waiting, I think because of how embarrassing it is when someone is treating you this way and people around you start to think you're an idiot with no self esteem or self worth...

It made me disappointed that I've gotten to the point of filing...but I am so confused because I know emotionally I'm not considering my marriage to be over. Is that okay to be in this frame of mind where I want to D for other reasons but would still be open to recon?? There's no "rule" that says you can DB if you actually go through with D, is there?

Like I said in my last post, I am just trying to truly "drop the rope" and focus on myself in the meantime while H is doing whatever he needs to do. And I can't do that if I'm asking him for money each month, etc. Part of me has thought maybe that's a good thing, like an excuse to contact him every once in a while (even though the interactions are dry and short and to the point, and he never tries to "bait" me into anything more or monster whatsoever) but I know that's not focusing on ME, that's focusing on what I think I want to get out of HIM.

It seems from some other MLC situations that it is only in that case where the LBS starts really "doing" things in the opposite direction that the MLCer might suddenly feel a little more loss. Maybe it hasn't been long enough in my sitch, but I just keep getting the feeling that my H is thinking I must still be desperate and hanging on; because we don't have any other need to interact with each other and have been NC, there is no other opportunity for me to show him that I am moving on... by default, not filing seems like a pursuit in itself if I put myself in his shoes. Does that make sense?

This is why in my post above I mentioned that I somehow want to SHOW him that I am not necessarily going to be around forever...that I need to at least take some steps forward...but also not making him feel like he can't come to me, which I keep reading is one of the important elements in recon from MLC.

I am also keeping in mind that just because I've submitted the petition, and may move some things forward, it doesn't mean I have to go through with it if for some reason I change my mind. But I am trying NOT to make this decision based on his reaction, and do it instead based on how I am feeling. And that's just hard because filing doesn't feel good, but the past 3 months have definitely not felt good either.

As I read more and more about MLC and how unlikely it is for people to come out of it, let alone come out of it AND admit to all he hurts they've done and really work on themselves, I'm afraid I'll just be wasting my time. I do fully believe it would be worth it but the odds seem so much stacked against me, and then I also have to consider whether H would even fully be able to do the work even if he was saying he wanted to come back. Or what other side effects he may have created that I would be dealing with during or after piecing. What braveheart said in the thread below really resonated with me:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741&page=7

I don't want to be that person standing for 8 years, nothing ever happens, and then meanwhile I've been unable to fully detach. I am so so so SO deeply saddened by the thought of completely losing 9 years of my life and everything about me and H together that I know is wonderful. But if I'm going to have to move on, it's going to take a long time anyway...so I might as well start now without any expectation. I bet 2-3 years could go by and I still won't have gotten completely over it, in which case if H came back there'd still be a chance. And IF something did happen in that time where I didn't want H back, then good for me.

It seems like THIS is what DBing is coming down to for me - stopping my own dance of dreaming up the future or hanging on to the past and just going to acceptance, but not being mean or shutting out my H; instead just doing what any "normal" person would do when someone treats them this way and try to separate myself from it fully, including D, until (if and when) H were to take the lead on coming back.

I don't know if I'm just getting angrier or what. I do fear I'm just doing this all "wrong" (I know there's not a definitive "right") and that mostly I will make a decision I will regret later, knowing full well I won't have that line of sight until later. It is terrifying to know my life is going to look vastly different in the future but that I have so little control over what that will be. I feel like right now I am just trying to gain back any sense of control over my life so I can feel a little bit of the normalcy that's been missing since May.

[ovrrnbw]

Hi TJT,

just wanted to check in. I hope you can find the strength to not let this person continue to have power over you. I hope you take positive steps in your life to find yourself and be yourself instead of reacting to him.

I think maybe the inlaws are too much. If you guys find yourselves together and happy, then resume that relationship with the inlaws. But they may be using you for info as much as you want it from them too. The inlaws are obviously not going to confront him about his behavior, and this usually the case from what I've seen here. That's why the advise is always to let them go and save yourself the frustration.

Try not to get caught up in the OW and your H saying this little thing or that little thing. Unfortunately, when people have relationships (and affairs have a relationship aspect) the create little sayings.

Legitimately I am so mad that friends and family just "let" him do these things. I'd like to think if I had a friend who was doing things like this, I'd be like ummm wth are you doing?

It seems the WS always find enablers, it's just moths to the flames. But this is out of your hands, so I'd work on letting go of what you can't control and focus on spending that energy positively!

I am wondering the best way to tell him that I've done it so he can sign the part he needs to sign, and also if I should say anything explaining what I've just explained to you all - that it doesn't mean I'm not still willing to work on our relationship, but that I'm not willing to stay legally tied given his behavior and the implications those things could have on me. I'm kind of hoping to create a moment that makes a statement about me starting to move in a certain direction so he knows I'm not just going to wait here forever or accept how he's making me look so stupid; that while I'm not fully 100% done, I'm starting to take steps.

I'd pay a cop to serve him, that's somewhat normal around here. Keep it business like. I wouldn't say anything like that to him either, he already knows it. You would just solidify yourself as Plan B. As for creating that "moment", I'd say it's a risky move. I'm not sure how it will play out but I'd prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

by default, not filing seems like a pursuit in itself if I put myself in his shoes. Does that make sense?

Turn it around, he didn't file right? So did you feel like he was pursuing you? I hope that answers you question.

I'm so sorry that you're at this point where you feel like you've lost control. I hope you know you can gain control over your life and your happiness no matter where this divorce goes. But it's up to you. Let go of the stuff you can't do anything about and go work towards something where you energy will reap benefits. Your H is one of those things you can't control. I hope he wakes up, for your sake, but I'd not expect it to happen either or at least not on your timeframe. Hopefully one of the vets will be by tomorrow to lend a hand as well.

Merry Christmas.

[ovrrnbw]

Oh and you're younger than me, your life is not over if you guys get divorced. You don't have kids and people will want you. Trust me.