It was only after I started the DB process that I realized not only the contributions I made that lead to this, but also the deep-rooted causes of why I was who I was. I would have never addressed my NGS if it was not pointed out to me. I would not have started the process of finding my balls. And I certainly would not have made such strong bonds with a bunch of folks from all walks of life here. This board is my primary source of support.
Thanks for sharing those thoughts with us, Pain. For me, it has always been about the individual person who is reaching out for help. It is seeing that individual rising from the ashes of their MR and refusing to allow it to define themselves as a loser. It has been such an encouragement to see people discover their own sense of self value and to make remarkable changes in their lives. IMHO, you have been one of those people. That's not to say your story has ended, b/c our personal stories never end as long as we have a breath left in us. I just mean that you are going to be one of those who will be able to look back on your journaling and see the distance you traveled.
Thank you. That means a lot to me. I am getting the same feedback from others as well about the changes I have went through these last 5 months. I still have not brought myself to look back at how I was when I first came here versus how I am now. Maybe once this chapter of my life closes completely I can revisit and see how much I have grown.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Originally Posted by pain18
I'm not sure if these are common thoughts that the most LBS goes through or if we're the minority. All I know is that no matter how many people tell me how things will get better, the belief of that is simply not there. I put my hope into that thought, as evidenced by my posts on coincidental sunrises, and songs, and whatnot.
When you say the belief of that is simply not there, are you referring to the belief your MR will get better...….or your life will get better....should there be a divorce?
If you asked me this question three months ago, I would have responded that there is no belief that my MR would get better. Now, it is different.
Now it's more about my life and where it is going and how I can control my happiness, regardless of the outcome. I am getting stronger and more confident in myself, but I am still...scared about the thought of D. I am trying to avoid it as much as possible but I know that I need to start getting prepared for it. Living as is is barely tolerable. I deserve better. D4 deserves better. If all of the other options fail and divorce is the only way out...then I need to go through with it.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Originally Posted by pain18
But right now, it's just really dark, really lonely, and is killing my self-esteem.
The words that jumped out to me in that paragraph "is killing my self-esteem". You may be writing from a place of deep hurt on what's suppose to be a joyous occasion, and may not want to expound on it. However, if you don't mind.....can you explain how it is killing your self-esteem? I think living under the same roof is affecting your self-esteem and keeps your anger right beneath the boiling point. But, that's JMHO. Who am "I" to tell any LBS how to feel? I'm not.
Sandi, it was a very depressing morning yesterday. Christmas historically been wonderful and felt like a wonderful, surreal dream when I was spending it with WW. Yesterday when WW left with D4 to celebrate Xmas with "friends" (OM), it just reminded me again of the depressing days before I met my W. Those thoughts then snowballed into a total negative thought process and took me to a dark Christmas day in which I ended up in a screaming match with my father after he told me that no one wanted to date me because I was too fat. So...PTSD.
Even though I try not to let living under the same roof affect me, it does. I cannot lie about it. But I also know that I deserve to sleep in MY house in MY bed. Right now, the anger is being kept at bay, which is hard to do considering the circumstances. I do my best to GAL on the days I share the house, but sometimes there are periods where I cannot really go anywhere. Yesterday was one of those days.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Both spouses contribute to the breakdown of a MR, IMHO. Nobody knows better than the other spouse. I don't think it makes either of them a failure at everything else in their life. Perhaps the MR fails......but it does not mean either of the spouses are less human, or that they will never be able to feel happiness again. Thank God that our worthiness as a human being is not measured by just one relationship; just one job or career; or on one chance in life. ((hugs))
Quote
I know it takes two, Sandi. Two to make a marriage work. And I know my part of the breakdown in our marriage and I think WW knows as well. I just go back to the days when I was being warned constantly that something was wrong and I brushed her off, while making matters worse when I go on my angry and hurtful rants, holding affection back, and outright ignoring her. I wonder if I am still making the same mistakes (the no attention part) or if it is the process I should employ for this.
[quote=sandi2][quote=pain18]I have been told I am a wonderful man and that I do not deserve this. I really don't know how to respond to that anymore.
My suggestion is to quietly say, "Thank you". No need to discuss the sitch. You know, we often tell one another on the board that we deserve better, etc. One day, a Newbie told me that everyone deserved better. In other words, it wasn't helping him for me to tell him things like that. Sometimes, friends, family. or co-workers want to say something comforting, but don't know what to say. So, just know they mean well, and leave it at that.
I don't know if your M will last, however, I believe you will be okay if it doesn't. (See, there I go again, telling you that you'll be okay). The failure of a MR, does not determine you or your W fail as individual people. Some people have their identify so enmeshed or attached to the M, they cannot see themselves as an individual. They cannot foresee themselves being happy without their current spouse. They don't know how to go about having a "new" life, b/c everything about them has been defined by the M. Men with NGS may find it difficult to imagine carving out a life without their XW, b/c they saw their identification as being someone's husband. Same applies for some women who centered their life to having a home, raising children, being a good wife, etc.
I don't think anyone knows if my M will last much longer, Sandi. And that just is the "right" answer for when folks come on here looking for an answer to that question. I know I will be ok...I have to be. I just am afraid of going through the dating and courtship process again if I have to move on from current WW. The unknown is scary when it comes to dating. Even moreso when I consider the history I have had with dating. I think that is what is most upsetting. History repeating itself.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Changing the subject just a bit...…….what have you been doing to physically work off your pent up anger?
Sending you a big hug (((Pain))).
I have been lifting, starting to meet new people, and starting to truly relinquish my anger. It was after WW pointed out to me that I was acting like an a$$hole that I had to look at myself and ask if the behavior I am exhibiting now was how I used to be before BD. And I would have to agree with her and say "Yes."
But I'd be lying if I would not have any justification for my feelings nor would others who sympathize with my plight. And I would also be fooling myself into believing that I can anger my way towards a better life because that is definitely not working.
Well, I made it through the holiday. I have a few more painful dates coming up, but none of them should be as bad as Christmas.
I was able to GAL on Christmas day. So much that it took the entire part of the evening. And in that time I got 12 phone calls, 7 text messages (2 from D4, which is funny because she thought that I was being passive-aggressive to WW and not talking to her so she used D4 to see if I would respond.) I also got a text from her best friend about meeting her to pick up our gifts. I have not heard from her friend in months and she texts me all of a sudden? Obviously I was busy with my life as WW was busy with hers. I finally caller her and told her that I am ok. I get the "why did you not respond to me?" Told her that the place I went to did not allow cell phones and my phone was silenced. Does she believe me? Does it matter?
She went NC all day yesterday. As soon as I came home, she closed her bedroom door. End night.
Today is more NC except a list of clothes to pack for D4 since they will both be out next week. No response from me. No response necessary.
My moods go up and down still. Some days I'm pumped to be making so much progress and how I am starting to be thankful that this happened. The other part is the betrayal and her continuing to lie. This is not the woman I fell in love with and married. Sadly, I don't think this is going to change anytime soon. But I do continue to change myself. I have to. I need to.
And I look ahead to 2019 and all I want, no NEED, for this continuing nightmare to end. For as much improvement and process as I am making, it still hurts. Each step, each day, each thought hurts.
I saw someone posting about the DBing timeline and progress. They responded to someone who said they have been DBing for 11 months and that it is still near the damn beginning. Wow. So I'm still in the infancy of this thing, aren't I?
But on the plus side, 5 more days until this year is history. I'm hoping 2019 treats me better than 2018 did. I can't/don't want to have this continue. I want some kind of happy ending to this. I don't know what form it will take. One road is "easier" and gives me a better chance of happiness (option to D) or I continue with using this time of limbo and hope for the other option while continuing to improve myself.
Well, I made it through the holiday. I have a few more painful dates coming up, but none of them should be as bad as Christmas.
I was able to GAL on Christmas day. So much that it took the entire part of the evening. And in that time I got 12 phone calls, 7 text messages (2 from D4, which is funny because she thought that I was being passive-aggressive to WW and not talking to her so she used D4 to see if I would respond.) I also got a text from her best friend about meeting her to pick up our gifts. I have not heard from her friend in months and she texts me all of a sudden? Obviously I was busy with my life as WW was busy with hers. I finally caller her and told her that I am ok. I get the "why did you not respond to me?" Told her that the place I went to did not allow cell phones and my phone was silenced. Does she believe me? Does it matter?
She went NC all day yesterday. As soon as I came home, she closed her bedroom door. End night.
Today is more NC except a list of clothes to pack for D4 since they will both be out next week. No response from me. No response necessary.
My moods go up and down still. Some days I'm pumped to be making so much progress and how I am starting to be thankful that this happened. The other part is the betrayal and her continuing to lie. This is not the woman I fell in love with and married. Sadly, I don't think this is going to change anytime soon. But I do continue to change myself. I have to. I need to.
And I look ahead to 2019 and all I want, no NEED, for this continuing nightmare to end. For as much improvement and process as I am making, it still hurts. Each step, each day, each thought hurts.
I saw someone posting about the DBing timeline and progress. They responded to someone who said they have been DBing for 11 months and that it is still near the damn beginning. Wow. So I'm still in the infancy of this thing, aren't I?
But on the plus side, 5 more days until this year is history. I'm hoping 2019 treats me better than 2018 did. I can't/don't want to have this continue. I want some kind of happy ending to this. I don't know what form it will take. One road is "easier" and gives me a better chance of happiness (option to D) or I continue with using this time of limbo and hope for the other option while continuing to improve myself.
Its a hard decision for us to initiate D or leave man. I am in the same spot. I have been handling this since August. Really trying to DB since end of September, finally doing hard DB now. But I am feeling the same "how long do I want to deal with this if she doesnt leave or file for D?" Should I just live in limbo land in my MBR at my house forever and ever while she continues A and hope it fizzles or should I just drop the hammer and move on and enjoy being single?
I am honestly enjoying GAL a lot. The part I miss is female attention and honestly the attention I have been getting from the opposite sex has ramped up significantly in the last couple of weeks.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Its a hard decision for us to initiate D or leave man. I am in the same spot. I have been handling this since August. Really trying to DB since end of September, finally doing hard DB now. But I am feeling the same "how long do I want to deal with this if she doesnt leave or file for D?" Should I just live in limbo land in my MBR at my house forever and ever while she continues A and hope it fizzles or should I just drop the hammer and move on and enjoy being single?
It is. I am in the same spot. When I have mentioned D, it came out of a place of emotion. And making emotionally-based decisions is not a good thing to do. It has burned me before and made this sitch all the more difficult to deal with. You've been DBing for...two months now? It's going to take much longer to see and feel the complete change you're putting yourself through. I'm at month five. The vets here say it takes 12-24 months to fully DB...maybe longer. The good thing that I am noticing though, is that I am not as hopeless about the time aspect of it as I used to be. And I look back at who I was back then and who I am now. Big change and continuing to do so. Also, I look back and ask, if WW and I ever did R, would that be a good thing? My answer would be a firm "No". I was not fully DBed. I still have things I need to work on in terms of myself. Biggest thing? Continuing to get my balls back.
Originally Posted by SoTorn
I am honestly enjoying GAL a lot. The part I miss is female attention and honestly the attention I have been getting from the opposite sex has ramped up significantly in the last couple of weeks.
That's great to hear. All of those little good things add up. Keep on being and improving you, amigo.
Ya I haven't been going that long. I can tell a difference though. Been working hard on my PMA. I have noticed that when I am confident I get noticed a lot. I notice my WW gives me a little more respect as well. WW was being critical of stupid little things. Temp checks. I told her "I need you to stop criticizing every little thing I do" and instead of her arguing she simply said "ok". That was a first.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
waddup fellas, so this is where all the cool ppl hanging at now?
pain, reading your sitch man, much ((pain)). I've been lurking and reading the posts and trying to apply what I can when I can in my daily learnings and life. I appreciate all the time you take in sharing because although it is personal for you, it's also personal for so many of us who walk that same walk.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
I'm puttering along, which I guess is considered progress. No major GAL plans tonight. I haven't been spending time with D4 much so I'm hoping to get some quality time in before she goes to see grandparents. I'll be by myself most of next week so I should have an opportunity to really engage in social GAL activities.
Adam, I appreciate you reading through my sitch. And I'm glad that you are applying the techniques to yours. We're all on a similar journey.
I am following ST's sitch now and I saw the following response from Sandi. Her detailed explanation of the WW mindset and how to approach the WW and sitch continues to be a tremendous asset to me.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Her "explanation" of not considering it an A b/c in her mind she had already left you...….is exactly how a WW thinks. She feeds herself her own b.s. It's how she justifies her choices and behavior.
IMHO, the WW should receive a consistent message from the H she has betrayed, and currently threatens to D. The message should be demonstrated in his actions. It should tell her where he stands with her disrespectful behavior.
I remember when WW told me this early last summer after I told her (yelled) WW was cheating on me. Reading this makes me feel less crazy and gives me further clarification of my WW mindset and how much she has manipulated not only me, but her circle of friends and family.
Originally Posted by sandi2
You may wonder where I am going with all of this. It's about consistency. Sure, sometimes there may be something you need to tweak...…...but the message of your actions should be consistent with what you are saying to her. Thus far, you have verbalized a great deal of your message, right? Are your actions matching your words? And are they consistent?
From what I've seen in LBH's, it's the little details that seem to throw them off track. My advice is to know the main message you wish to relay through your actions. You may need to sit and think about it for a bit.
I still struggle with this, but it is becoming a little easier to express my message to her regarding my feelings to her waywardness. The key word here is consistency. That is what I need to do.
Originally Posted by sandi2
If your overall message is "I'm done" or "I'm dumping you b/c you betrayed me", then what actions relay that message? You declined the invitation......which was smart. You told her you didn't want to hang out with her......which was a little harsh for some, but it's certainly consistent with the action. Maybe we can think of some general responses that line up with your main message......and be able to keep it short and simple. I've noticed that some LBH's get very wordy in some of their responses to the WW. It comes off sounding like he's teaching a class!
I am very guilty of this. And everytime I talk I say more than I mean to say and I end up kicking myself for saying too much and giving her some power back. I anticipate another such conversation soon.
Originally Posted by sandi2
You already suspect these moves by the WW as being temp checks or some other form of manipulation. Something else some WW's do is try to "normalize" their family activities, etc. She may be cake eating or whatever, but it's usually an act of manipulation.Some LBH's make the mistake of thinking she is "reaching out" or that "she's making baby steps". No, she's not doing either one. As long as there is any other guy in the picture (regardless of what she claims), and as long as she has shown no effort in making amends for her waywardness...…..then the LBH should not jump at her suggestion to eat out or have some other form of family activity together. Why? B/c she can't have the marriage and family.....and other "relationships" that exclude her H. She doesn't get to have the best of both worlds. She has to realize that she is losing something as a result of her bad decisions. As long as she gets to play house & family, she's not going to recognize much loss.
The going out to dinner crap happened twice in the last two weeks. And I knew it felt wrong. Ovr even told me so and told me to knock it off. She get clever sometimes by getting take out, but I am not sure how to approach that. I think being truly distant this next week will allow me to learn more and get more insight on how to handle these temp checks.
Originally Posted by sandi2
The WW needs to wonder if she's losing her H. That's why she snoops in your things and the bedroom, to see if there is any indication of some other woman. Currently, she doesn't want to be your wife.....but she doesn't want to be replaced, either. (Crazy, I know.)
She asks me sometimes about me going on dates and to "let her know" so that she can "make arrangements to watch D4".
Originally Posted by sandi2
If she believes her H is dumping her, she'll try several things to temp check his emotional attachment to the MR. The H has to be strong enough to walk away from the temptation, if he's going to be consistent in his message/stance. When the little details in life confuse him, he needs to regroup and remember his overall message he's explaining through his actions. What message is his WW getting by watching his actions?
Slowly she is realizing that. I am seeing the crap WW is pulling and I am getting tired of it. Check my day 151 post.
Ugh...just got off a phone call with WW. She basically "understood" that I'm all business since I chose not to chat friendly anymore and I never acknowledged her after she sent me a pack list for D4's trip. So I asked what she needed me to do. And she just said a response would be nice. I told her that if she sends a list I would respond.
She thinks I am being rude and a jerk, which I validated. I told her that I will work on responding better when she does call or text me. She feels like we should have a schedule of communication if it works for me. I said that I always have responded when it comes to our child and finances and felt that a schedule was not necessary. If there is a problem, I let her know. She said back that she just want to know how D4's day was and stuff like that.
I strongly feel that she is losing me more daily, but she is also making me feel bad for being so distant and unresponsive.
I need to continue to enforce my boundaries, but when she does this crap I soften up (NGS most likely) and feel like an awful person.
She was crying in the background. I asked her if she was ok. She said no. She was still mad at me for not responding and worrying her when I did not pick up my phone or respond to my texts. She had a lot of vulgar names for me.
I know I cannot talk to her about why I am acting the way I am acting...but I feel like she is not getting it. Or that she is getting it, but is furiously trying to make me feel bad for the way I should be acting towards her.
I don't know if she is manipulating me or if those feelings are valid. I am doing my best to validate, but wow...I feel pretty bad right now.
She's either really good or I am still really weak.
She is probably doing both manipulation and feeling worried. It never seems like it is just one thing. I must have missed it, did the texts have to do with D4 or finances? If so why did you not respond. If not why are you feeling bad. Don't stand for name calling and vulgarity. Set the boundary. My W is getting it figured out fast that when she does this I hang up, walk away, or ask her to leave depending on the sitch.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Ugh...just got off a phone call with WW. She basically "understood" that I'm all business since I chose not to chat friendly anymore and I never acknowledged her after she sent me a pack list for D4's trip. So I asked what she needed me to do. And she just said a response would be nice. I told her that if she sends a list I would respond.
She thinks I am being rude and a jerk, which I validated. I told her that I will work on responding better when she does call or text me. She feels like we should have a schedule of communication if it works for me. I said that I always have responded when it comes to our child and finances and felt that a schedule was not necessary. If there is a problem, I let her know. She said back that she just want to know how D4's day was and stuff like that.
I strongly feel that she is losing me more daily, but she is also making me feel bad for being so distant and unresponsive.
I need to continue to enforce my boundaries, but when she does this crap I soften up (NGS most likely) and feel like an awful person.
She was crying in the background. I asked her if she was ok. She said no. She was still mad at me for not responding and worrying her when I did not pick up my phone or respond to my texts. She had a lot of vulgar names for me.
I know I cannot talk to her about why I am acting the way I am acting...but I feel like she is not getting it. Or that she is getting it, but is furiously trying to make me feel bad for the way I should be acting towards her.
I don't know if she is manipulating me or if those feelings are valid. I am doing my best to validate, but wow...I feel pretty bad right now.
She's either really good or I am still really weak.
Just validate and continue with your consistent behavior. Sandi has drilled that into my skull. Don't change up to meet something that she wants. I get the same "You never talk to me, you don't respond to my messages anymore". I just don't engage. I have already explained to my WW that I am not going to interact with her while she is in an A. We shouldn't have to explain ourselves over and over again.
Why does she need you to tell her how D4 is doing? Can't she ask D4? Your WW is temp checking you like mad, she is trying to manipulate you with her feelings regardless if they are valid or not. Just tell her "I understand that its frustrating, I am busy". Maybe something like that? That is how I responded. It is no longer a priority for us to respond instantaneously to WW every time they ring the bell.
I was always extremely responsive to my WW. Then she stopped being responsive because she was going out to dinner with OM while traveling and drinking and living it up while she was having an A and she keeps having the A! I remember the feeling I had wondering why my WW who used to always call me and talk to me was now avoiding me while she was out with another man. The anxiety she caused me, the hurt she caused me by moving forward with her desire to screw another man. So, even though it feels odd, I forced myself to not be available for WW. I just can't do it for my own sanity. Why would I make myself available to someone who did this to me and keeps doing it?
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
