another day, another thread, another burned

[Adam04]

burned bro... Merry Christmas!

You're young, smart, and still have a whole, full life ahead of you.

I wanted to tell you thank you sincerely. It's always nice to read your posts. It will get better, it will. Enjoy life and the holidays.

(())

[DejaVu6]

Aww Burn...(((HUGS))). Your comment about being erased really hit home for me. That is a good description of it. It is not a nice feeling at all and it is one I have often...but not as often as during the early days. It hurts no doubt. Our 13-year history, the life we built together, mean very little to him now and I am quite certain that if we did not have kids, he would be completely gone from my life. In some ways, maybe that would be easier, I don’t know.

Anyway...chin up. You don’t know that your W isn’t thinking of you just because she hasn’t sent a text. If there is one thing I have learned through all of this, it is that some people are really, really good at hiding their feelings behind a mask of “everything is AOK”.

Merry Christmas... make it a great day!! (((Burned)))

[Ready2Change]

I know people who did not learn a thing when their first marriage failed. Guess what... They are still attracted to the same type of person they were married to. They repeat the same dance.

We on the other hand, change the way we interact with people. We attract different type of people. The more we fix ourselves, the healthy people we attract into our lives.

#1 on my list for a new partner-- honesty.

After D, do you know how many woman I had to sift through to find an honest, single woman?

It was easy to let the dishonest one drift back out of my life....

[Vapo]

Chin up bro. Holidays are the worst. You are being bombarded from all sides with images of family bliss, and you feel like the last turd on the sidewalk. As you might remember I warned you the initial shock will wear off and you fill start feeling the full brunt of the situation after the 6 mo. mark.

It is perfectly normal to be second guessing everything, but you are still searching for that magic bullet when in your heart of hearts you KNOW there is no magic bullet. I get it, you just want the hurt to go away, you just want an ember to signal that all is not lost.

Dust yourself off, be a man and walk with your head held high. And no, you are not alone and no, it is not true that you have no one to talk to. You have all of us in your corner, we are here for you.

Soon you might come to the revelation (as i have) that being single is not the worst thing that might happen to you, but is might be an opportunity for you to grow beyond your wildest dreams. 1 prerequisite though. You have to get your a$$ in gear and start moving. The sooner you start moving, the sooner new horizons will start opening for you. On the other side, if you stay put, no good can come out of it.

[burned]

Thanks guys. I’m glad there are people here when the real-life people are asleep, or when I just need to talk to someone who KNOWS. Plus I’m trying to let the real-life people enjoy their holiday in peace. Thanks for all of the virtual hugs and encouragement.

I think the point of my post last night was to emphasize how hard it is to DB, especially when it feels like nothing is changing. I’m getting better at not blaming myself for the failure of the M. all of the stuff about “I brought this on myself” was in regards to DBing. I came here, did my best to learn what I could, and implemented the concepts to the best of my limited ability. The point is that I imposed this kind of discomfort on myself with the goal of creating better possibilities in the future. So...sometimes it hurts, and that’s that.

Someone posted yesterday about the soldiers who played soccer and sang together on Christmas during WWI. In the end W did text me. “Merry Christmas, Burned.” I did respond, “Merry Christmas, W.” It was the best interaction we’ve had in months.

[TJT]

Hey burned - Merry Christmas!!

x2 to what Vapo has said. I actually felt exactly like this yesterday too. I feel "less than" for my H leaving me and feeling like the black sheep at every holiday event, resenting hardcore that I'm now the depressed single one, etc. But you do have us, and we understand. You are not alone!

I loved the discussion earlier on your thread here. I've had a lot of the same questions about why we are the ones here and such.

“Most WASes eventually look back.” Yeah, but mine probably won’t. “There are lots of recon stories.” Yeah, but I’m not a DB ninja like them, and I already did so much damage. “You won’t want her back.” Yeah, but it would be nice to at least have the option. “You’ll be better off without her.” Hmm. Maybe.

I just wanted to highlight this for emphasis because you've just externalized the reactions I have to these things when people say them, but that I haven't been able to really put into words. I am glad you did because I also really found comfort in Bo's very simple response:

I can’t convince you otherwise, but whatever you did, you did not ‘bring this upon’ yourself. At the end of the day, we don’t deserve this.

You deserve better, and you matter, and you will be better off some day.

It may be repetitive but affirmations like this are comforting, even if we have to keep coming back to them over and over again.

We all make mistakes. Yet all of us here know how to work on ourselves and how to set long-term goals and how to ACHIEVE them - which means not just giving up when the plan doesn't go 100% as we wanted it to. It also means truly thinking of our Ms as a team sport, which means we also know that we alone do not win or lose the game. It is impossible for us to be completely responsible for the "loss" when our partners have done the equivalent of walking off the court when we missed some shots. I guess yeah, sometimes the teams still play the whole game out and still lose... but you get what I'm saying.

I definitely think having a growth mindset is a big thing that differentiates our spouses from those of us here. We know that things are rarely set in stone. Things and yes, even people, can and do change. We learn, acquire new tools, evolve, etc. It's ironic that the WASs would expect us to be better or make changes, yet they are trying to change something in their lives by simply changing their environment or who they surround themselves with. Those things matter to an extent, but ultimately you cannot escape yourself and that's something they have to own up to some day if they are ever going to be happy.

[Bo562]

We all make mistakes. Yet all of us here know how to work on ourselves and how to set long-term goals and how to ACHIEVE them - which means not just giving up when the plan doesn't go 100% as we wanted it to. It also means truly thinking of our Ms as a team sport, which means we also know that we alone do not win or lose the game. It is impossible for us to be completely responsible for the "loss" when our partners have done the equivalent of walking off the court when we missed some shots. I guess yeah, sometimes the teams still play the whole game out and still lose... but you get what I'm saying.

...but ultimately you cannot escape yourself and that's something they have to own up to some day if they are ever going to be happy.

Glad I could help, TJT, and I hope it helps you, burned.

TJT: I’m a huge sports fan, so I really like your analogy. I know that there have been many times I’ve not been the H my W needed or deserved, and I’m doing my best to own it and fix it.

However, in MR, just like in sports, there are very, very few situations in which one person totally shoulders the blame and bears complete responsibility for the loss.

Example: I’m an Indians fan, and I look back on the 2016 World Series. I could easily think about “oh well, in Game 7 if Corey Kluber didn’t give up a lead-off home run to Dexter Fowler or if Andrew Miller didn’t serve it up to David Ross, I’d still be emotionally hungover from a World Series win....” But it’s not that simple...because there were plenty of other moments that added together, and plenty of other opportunities in which the Indians could have won it in Games 5 and 6–but they didn’t.

And that’s what bothers me about my sitch....is I feel like W wants to walk off the court when I missed some shots. Am I a perfect H? H*** no. But she’s not a perfect W, either. If I cheated on her, or beat her or the kids, or was otherwise emotionally or sexually abusive? That I could understand. I’m not going to take my ball and go home because I’m unhappy, unlike her.

And if my W really is THAT unhappy, then unless she puts some serious work in, she will continue to be unhappy—single, or with someone else down the road.

[TJT]

However, in MR, just like in sports, there are very, very few situations in which one person totally shoulders the blame and bears complete responsibility for the loss.

Exactly!

And if my W really is THAT unhappy, then unless she puts some serious work in, she will continue to be unhappy—single, or with someone else down the road.

Exactly!

I struggle with the exact same thing but we have to keep connecting the dots the same way. As long as they are unwilling to accept the flaws in others and work through them, they will always be unhappy, because they are failing to recognize their own role.

[burned]

I. WANT. TO. PURSUE.

I can’t, obviously, but I want to. I wish I could at least know where she’s at in the process. But it wouldn’t make a difference, and my fear of “making it worse” is pointless. I miss her. I don’t miss “being married.” I don’t fear “being single.” I just adore this woman. There are moments when I feel like my “I know what’s good for you” attitude isn’t about my needs, my desperation, etc. I really did know her well, and she often didn’t know herself as well as she thought she did. There’s a tiny part of me that thinks maybe, just maybe, my gut might be right. The problem is that my gut isn’t in charge of how this will play out. And the outlook for R is just so, so bleak.

I’m starting to feel like DB isn’t really what’s advertised. More like, dump the b— and move on, and don’t ever look back. (And yet I keep forgetting that that’s what might actually “work.”)

At this point I’m operating as if she will never again be a part of my life. I’ll have to sort out all the “why”s on my own. I know there’s this whole “cheating W” script and so forth but...I dunno. So yeah, I am more detached. But now instead of feeling like “OMG don’t go I can’t live without you” it’s more of a deep sadness, disappointment, closure of a sort. Weird.

(Blah blah blah long post deleted.)

GAL is fine, at least within normal limits for an extreme introvert. Detachment we covered. 180s, I’m already seeing changes in my physical appearance, my interactions with other people, my attitude toward life and the world. I’m hopeful about those things, at least. So overall, I’m DBing. W, if you’re reading this, I’m becoming awesome but I won’t be around forever so come get some while it’s fresh.

[Yail]

Burned, you seem to be struggling tonight. I don't know if I can help, but I feel I should respond to some of your comments.

First off - any chance you had some beers tonight? I ask because you so rightly called me out that it was acting as a major depressant for me last week. You certainly don't sound inebriated, but I think you mentioned brewing is a hobby of yours. Can you take a 2 week hiatus and see if that changes anything? A New Year's Reboot.

I. WANT. TO. PURSUE.

Good job coming here instead of just acting on emotion. Thinking it through is always a good idea.

Pursue = bad. I know that's the dialogue that is had here on the board, and I think it's so we can break out of our bad habits. But people and relationships aren't textbook cases, and there is nuance in everything we do.

I'm NOT saying you should reach out right now. I'm just saying I couldn't advise that, and honestly no one here could.

Can we change the framework? Instead of pursue = bad, can it be space = good? Your W with her actions has requested space. Her actions were not okay, but I think we can agree the message is clear. Can you think of this as giving your W something she has asked for? Giving her space?

There are moments when I feel like my “I know what’s good for you” attitude isn’t about my needs, my desperation, etc. I really did know her well, and she often didn’t know herself as well as she thought she did.

I'm sure this is right.

But she's also changing now, and going through her own process. So let her learn about herself. It's hard to be introspective when you're in a R. Think about all the growing we are doing here that we DIDN'T do (that we should have done) when in R. It took the space from the R for us to turn inward.

At this point I’m operating as if she will never again be a part of my life.

OK - all hardcore DBers should look away because I'm going to say something "anti-DB" and you'll likely not like my advice.

The part I'm hung-up on in your sentence is "never again". It's the finality of it. And I think that's the part that's hanging you up too. What if you considered this to be some very strange 3-year "break". And in those 3 years, yes, you may go through the logistics of D. And you should mourn, absolutely.

And pick yourself up and keep going, as you have been doing.

But what if in 2022 you happened to run into W in a bar. You had spent the last 3 years dating some awesome people, doing some awesome things. Maybe you're in a R, maybe not. But the *chance* of reconnecting is there. Not even necessarily for a new M, but maybe as friends. Maybe you'll get some serendipitous closure. Maybe you just learn about what's new in her life, and share what's new in yours.

The chance for reconnection WAY down the road is hopeful to me. I'm not banking on it. But I DO know my W, and I do know that if we each truly addressed our issues we would potentially be a very good fit once again. So in your own knowledge of your W, just remember that it happened once. It could happen again.

We don't know. The future is unreadable, and in that - I find hope.