Milestones of Moving On (?)

[TJT]

One other update for today. I did in fact approve the papers to be filed.

Then I took the dog on a long walk and to play ball for a little bit.

I thought a lot during this time. I thought about if others would think I "gave up" on my marriage. But DV, the conversation happening on your thread right now is exactly where I feel like I'm at/getting to. My values are transcending my feelings, and it's hard, but I know it's the best thing.

Also, I'm still terrified of this and trying my best not to pretend I'm not.

There are SO many things going through my mind in terms of what will happen when I tell H and all the things I WANT to say, but am actively convincing myself not to, or even when I tell anyone else. But I am being super compassionate with myself because I really do feel like I've done the best I can. I didn't think I would go to D this quick, but he's done more and more things to exacerbate the situation. As we keep saying over and over, it doesn't mean I have to be done with him for the rest of my life. I just have to do this for me now, and no matter how you look at it, THIS marriage is certainly dead.

SoTorn - thanks for sharing your experience. I hope it will be as easy for me as a woman to do something like that, in terms of finding men who are okay with "just being friendly".

[Grace21]

You don't need to date, but it is good to build your social circle. I have gone and had coffee with a few women. I am in no hurry to start any new romantic relationship and I make that very well known, but it is very nice to meet new and nice people. So far I have met three women that are really nice people. I told every single one of them of my situation and that at this point in time I am just making new friends PERIOD. All of them have accepted that and arent pursuing me in anyway beyond just being friendly and chit chatting. Its nice.

I agree completely, and have been doing so. I'm going out all the time, and have activities out of the house more days/nights than not. Meeting new people and reconnecting with old friends. I do interact with men, but most of those I know are married. They know my sitch, and are supportive. GAL has been truly a blessing!

[SoTorn]

You don't need to date, but it is good to build your social circle. I have gone and had coffee with a few women. I am in no hurry to start any new romantic relationship and I make that very well known, but it is very nice to meet new and nice people. So far I have met three women that are really nice people. I told every single one of them of my situation and that at this point in time I am just making new friends PERIOD. All of them have accepted that and arent pursuing me in anyway beyond just being friendly and chit chatting. Its nice.

I agree completely, and have been doing so. I'm going out all the time, and have activities out of the house more days/nights than not. Meeting new people and reconnecting with old friends. I do interact with men, but most of those I know are married. They know my sitch, and are supportive. GAL has been truly a blessing!

GAL has helped me significantly. Initially when WW moved upstairs, I just moped around the house. I was extremely upset and just wallowing in my sorrow. Once I started to GAL, I now feel awkward just sitting at home. I get anxious about just doing nothing so I always get out and do something now. I will go drive around alone if I have to. I have a nice fast car so I love driving around. Yes it wastes fuel but hey, more smile for the mile.

[Joe2017]

Man Target clothes are like the worst. They are shiny and all, but once you wash them they get all jankity. I've always regretted buying clothes at Target. I'm not even being a snob, I just want my stuff to last. Lol

Hey, you know what? Who cares about that others think. You filed for divorce because you deserve more than your H gave you, and he's not willing to change. Maybe one day! But that day is not today, or yesterday, or the past 6 months.

Take charge. Take control. Show the world you're worth more than what you were dealt. Your real friends will know you're doing the right thing for yourself and that's what matters most here. What's good for TJT. You don't have a kid with him, that's an advantage. Your D should be cut and dry. Once it's said and done you'll come out on top. It will be emotional but it's also very freeing.

Seriously, in my thread people told me divorce is just a piece of paper. Well it is. Maybe one day your H will come around like my XW did. But maybe not. And to be honest, I am still trying to figure out if my XW truly had an epiphany and is onthe road to real change that shows her dedication to R2.

Once you get out there and become TJT 2.0 you're going to see how much more you are worth, and you'll realize that you actually were ALWAYS worth more than you got from your H. It's going to work out for the best.

[TJT]

Man Target clothes are like the worst. They are shiny and all, but once you wash them they get all jankity.

Yes! I use "janky" but it's been a long time since I've seen someone say something close to that! Spot on.

Hey, you know what? Who cares about that others think. You filed for divorce because you deserve more than your H gave you, and he's not willing to change. Maybe one day! But that day is not today, or yesterday, or the past 6 months.

It's true. I did text the officiant who wed us last night; I want to have some kind of closure in that regard for myself, and let them know I didn't just give up on our M (and still haven't, really). He always said if we had trouble and wanted to talk we could engage him (which I did early on when H first BD'ed, before OW was known).

Basically I plan to disclose up front that I've decided to file for D but I want them (he and his wife) to know that I appreciate their support and if they would have any other advice I'm open to hearing it - but that I feel I have no choice, and did take my M seriously and that this action doesn't mean I'm not open to working on it if H were to express interest in that. I won't go into super detail because I'm not trying to do a smear campaign against H and seem like a crazy lady, OR like I'm trying to get them to convince my H on my behalf (I'm not) but I may offer up some broad facts in order to have the conversation.

Your D should be cut and dry. Once it's said and done you'll come out on top. It will be emotional but it's also very freeing.

It should be fairly simple as long as he keeps with our verbal agreement and doesn't fight me for other stuff.. and yes I hope it's freeing for sure. The house is the main thing, since he will need to sign a title transfer thing AND we will have to find the right language to use in the decree that says he is not financially responsible anymore. He has agreed to just doing that and NOT having him actually removed from the mortgage because I am unable to refinance (I qualify, but the house is so new it doesn't appraise appropriately at this point to meet the loan-to-value ratio the lenders require). I was told by a lender that if a divorce decree has that language, it won't count against him for future loans, so he was okay with it.

I'm not sure if that's fully true but to be honest that's not my problem at that point, and if anything he is still benefiting from being on the loan and me paying on time each month...and it saves me money by not having to refinance at a higher interest rate anyway.

Once you get out there and become TJT 2.0 you're going to see how much more you are worth, and you'll realize that you actually were ALWAYS worth more than you got from your H. It's going to work out for the best.

I've been thinking this lately myself. It's hard to see now when you're not getting that external validation, but I just have to keep faith. Thanks Joe.

[TJT]

Hi everyone.

I had a good time GALing with my friend last night. We made a bunch of food and talked a bunch. In fact we didn't ever turn the TV on!

I felt pretty good after this. I think just having someone else in the house really helps me. I did talk to her about my decision to file and we talked through that some (she actually knows my H from working with him years ago as well). I still feel it's the right decision even though I also still have the feeling that I'M sabotaging the M. I know, really dumb logic but I'm not gonna let it freak me out too much..

I had some bad dreams last night about H, though. Basically that somehow we were physically all in the same place together and I saw the girl he was with, who wasn't the OW I know...so he and OW had broken up and at first I was excited, but then I realized he was just with a different (also young) girl. It was just playing to my fears that even if H and OW don't work out, he may just continue to date other people and never come back to me.

I also still feel like I'm never gonna meet anyone that I connect with like I do with my H. That really bothers me that I can't get past that. Yet I'm also starting to see my H differently sometimes, which is helpful for me to move on, but something I still don't want to believe. Like, I can't help but feel like it's kind of creepy that he was flirting with and engaging in all kinds of inappropriate ways with someone so much younger. Sure she's an "adult" but I mean... compared to him? It just seems weird. I can totally see how if this ISN'T and MLC super fog, I may not ever be able to take my H back.

My friend made a really good comment while she was with me, that she has always felt like while her H is human and doesn't think he would be immune to ever cheating on her, she feels like he respects their relationship too much to put himself in that kind of position. And that is one thing I feel like my H was not good at. He is always the funny guy and I actually even told him once that it made me uncomfortable when he acts certain ways around people he works with because the younger girls may think he is flirting with them. Then what do you know... he's with one of them. I absolutely think he has self-esteem issues and the attention from me just wasn't enough. He needed more.

So now I think I'm imminently approaching the phase of mourning the loss of who I thought my H was. And that seems harder because if my H is not the person I thought he was, then it would mean this is less MLC or something else he will "snap out of", and instead of there just being a few things he needs to work on as a person, it would then mean he would need to have to change a lot more about himself, if that's even possible.

It all seems less and less probable that this will work out. And I don't like that because I just can't stop being SCARED of not finding someone I love like him! That shouldn't even be hard at this point given everything my H is doing, but he seemed like such a great guy before and that guy HAS to exist somewhere right??

*loop continues on and on and on and on*

P.S. I forgot one other positive thing - I am also getting excited about a conference I will be going to with a coworker (another woman) where they have an awards ceremony that everyone dresses up for. I bought a nice dress and I'm excited to get pictures looking all beautiful in it. I just hope I can focus on that and the moment instead of it making me sad that I don't have my H to share the moment with. And I still have a little work to do not letting myself make little comparisons to OW.

[burned]

Hey. Posting from my phone, so I have to be terse (also it’s late and I’m tired):

Totally get you on the “self esteem issues and needed more” thing. I suspect that contributes to the WS syndrome. I’m really starting to wonder what it is about THEM that makes them think awesome people like US aren’t enough to satisfy them. And that they’ll find someone even remotely as good as us somewhere else...F that noise.

Also, since we’re all strangers on the internet, I hope you won’t take this as anything more than a compliment. When I get that fear about “what if I never meet someone who really gets me like W does,” I think of some of the things you’ve said. And knowing that there’s one person out there besides me who thinks like I think, and values the same things that I value, makes me hopeful about my own future. Thank you for being you, I guess.

(I went grocery shopping today in the small town where my parents live. Didn’t see anyone with beer and dog food in their carts, unfortunately. I’ll keep looking. :P)

[TJT]

Well your effort does not go unappreciated, burned!

Thanks for taking the time to respond tonight (posting to these boards via phone is a painnn). And don’t worry, I don’t take what you’re saying the wrong way. It actually makes a lot of sense and I’m glad you said it (honestly I’ve noticed the same). We may be “strangers” but we are certainly sharing a very serious common experience and a lot of intellectual capital here!

I am trying hard (as many times as it needs to happen, which is a lot) to keep reminding myself that it is not me. But I think part of my problem is also forgiving myself or maybe just accepting myself for what I didn’t see up to this point. And then that letting go of control of your life thing. Nbd.

Keep an eye out... and maybe check for flowers in the cart too? Apparently lonely ladies do that for themselves to keep the space bright and feel special. Especially when there’s wildflowers available. Granted it’s a very big state. But a small world I suppose!

I’m tired too, been staying up way too late recently and then sleeping later. Probably mostly holiday induced being off my normal schedule, but hoping it’s not more anxiety or something.

I hope you’ve been GALing this weekend and keeping busy!

[Yorkie]

TJT

Your post resonates so much with me (and probably all of us). I have very mixed feelings about the label MLC as I sometimes feel we use it as an “illness” to try to explain appalling behaviour and defective characters. This is only my opinion. Everyone goes through peaks and troughs in their lives; health, relationships, careers etc etc. The majority of people ride those ups and downs and do what they can to alter things without impacting negatively on other people. I brought up 3 sons, when they reached adulthood I recognised a gap in my life and ‘empty nest syndrome’ so faced it and worked hard to gain a promotion.

I believe that my H reached a similar position in his life for lots of ‘ life reasons’ and his choice was to find another woman to adore him and put him on a pedestal. To do that he had to lie cheat and manipulate because he needed the ongoing approval and respect of his family and acquaintances. He wasn’t feeling adored and that was the overriding need that had to be met, to the cost of all other things. Does this make him an MLCer or somebody with narcissistic tendencies? He struggles to see the wrong and hurt he’s caused because of his need to be seen by someone as Mr nice guy and to constantly tell him how wonderful he is. He lacks empathy and always has.

It would be easy to say oh he’s had a MLC because to the outside world this is so out of character for this fine upstanding moral pillar of the community. But actually his total selfish need for instant gratification was always there and circumstances dictated that it came to the fore. He hasn’t been struck down by an illness. Prior to this he found other ways to feed the narcissistic tendencies: lots of community volunteering so that people could say how they couldnt manage without him; new car because he deserved it, but actually couldn’t afford it, constantly reminding people that he had 35 years experience as a lawyer and what did these young lawyers know. I could go on and on.

When I , his W, no longer made him the focal point of her life because it was my turn to do well in my chosen career, I didn’t have time to adore him every day and validate what a hero he was. He actually said “ I don’t think you need me anymore and I don’t know where I fit in your life”. Therefore after 30 years together he didn’t talk about us and we, but I,I,I.

So yes our Hs have had some sort of crisis but really who doesn’t? Their answer was to find new and shiny to feed the narcissist in them. So, I believe that he created all the MLC traits of fog and confusion by his actions, not the other way round. It’s a character flaw not an illness. I’m sure some may realise that the grass wasn’t greener in time, and settle for what he had because it’s easier and his W has realised how much she missed the marriage. But what about the next time he hits a trough and nobody’s feeding the narcissist sufficiently to feed his ego.

I think as LBS we tend to brush the infidelity under the carpet and excuse it as an ‘alien behaviour’. They made their choice, nobody forced them to pull their pants down. It takes a lot of effort and manipulation to keep a mistress and a wife happy and apart. Call me a cynic but all the MLC phrases only came into play when his 2 year double life was revealed. How convenient. He didn’t want to lose what he had and in fact for 3 months didn’t as I danced the ‘pick me dance’

As I say, just my opinion on my own situation, but I think I see many parallels in other people’s relationships.

[TJT]

Does this make him an MLCer or somebody with narcissistic tendencies? He struggles to see the wrong and hurt he’s caused because of his need to be seen by someone as Mr nice guy and to constantly tell him how wonderful he is. He lacks empathy and always has.

I definitely see the lack of empathy, although my H seemed to SAY that he knew he did wrong and I deserve better blah blah blah. But I never felt like he truly felt that way and certainly didn't act that way even in other situations beyond our M.

Prior to this he found other ways to feed the narcissistic tendencies: lots of community volunteering so that people could say how they couldnt manage without him; new car because he deserved it, but actually couldn’t afford it, constantly reminding people that he had 35 years experience as a lawyer and what did these young lawyers know.

My H jumped from job to job and was always in a position where he was the most experienced one, but he didn't necessarily "brag" about it. I don't think he needed to in the environments he was in, given almost everyone is younger in that field. My H was also ALWAYS very frugal and didn't seem to have any instances where he suddenly was buying shiny new toys. So for me I can't quite decide what's going on with my H. He meets some criteria for many things but not all.

He actually said “ I don’t think you need me anymore and I don’t know where I fit in your life”.

. Wow. I mean, at least he was aware of that, but it is absolutely ridiculous.

So, I believe that he created all the MLC traits of fog and confusion by his actions, not the other way round. It’s a character flaw not an illness. I’m sure some may realise that the grass wasn’t greener in time, and settle for what he had because it’s easier and his W has realised how much she missed the marriage. But what about the next time he hits a trough and nobody’s feeding the narcissist sufficiently to feed his ego.

Completely agree here... it's just SO hard to wrap my mind around given how great he was for so long. And as far as I know he's never screwed someone over like this before. Being able to "hide" those character flaws for so long is another talent in itself. And yeah, I'm sure we "miss" some things, but to that extent? It's mind boggling.

It takes a lot of effort and manipulation to keep a mistress and a wife happy and apart. Call me a cynic but all the MLC phrases only came into play when his 2 year double life was revealed. How convenient. He didn’t want to lose what he had and in fact for 3 months didn’t as I danced the ‘pick me dance’

This is a difference in our sitches, because my H didn't seem to want to keep me at all. As soon as I found out there was actually an OW, it was weird because it wasn't like he volunteered to leave me, but he also clearly did not want to stay. I just had enough of him acting like he didn't know how to make any decisions in his life (after months of him trickling out stories of being unhappy with me and withdrawing from me but not making any other effort to improve his life or our life together), and it was making me feel less of myself and extremely distressed to just be waiting around to see what happens. So I gave him the choice to work on our M or leave, and he simply "chose" to leave (but I think in his head he thinks of it as I kicked him out, to make him feel better).

Im going to post an update on multiple text messages I reviewed today (yep, I did a personal backslide, yay me) that just confuse me even further....ugh.