Surrendering to grace...

[Twofeet]

In other words, we know the problems. We know the solution. Each of us has to lovingly offer compromise. But as all of us in this virtual community know, that is a choice that must be made willingly.

It's gotta be more complicated than that, but maybe it's because you didn't provide details. Honestly, I don't buy this brief simple explanation.

The reason they are not willing to make the choice is because they refuse to deal with their issues. They prefer to run away from their issues and blame us for putting it in their face. We remind them of their inner struggles and pains. We are like a mirror for them. They hope that they can ignore their pains and all the emotional turmoils by staying away from us. And it will work for a while.

I don't believe that they built the resentment because of us. I see that explanation as not taking responsibility for their choices and their inner issues. They built the resentment mostly because of their internal issues and their emotional immaturity.

Part of their inner issues is not understanding the difference between emotions and true love. They are so confused internally and they probably have always been even if they appear stable from the outside. They think that the choice they are making is to separate from us, but in reality it's a choice to run away from any intimate relationship and hoping that their pains will go away.

But because they are in such a rebellious state right now and they have the illusion that they solved their problems, they are usually defensive and will get angry if anyone tries to help them.

Unfortunately, everyone around them will realize that trying to tell them the truth is a lost battle (even the therapists IMHO) and will just push them further away. And so everyone who still cares for them decides to listen and approve what they say. Basically, they are like teenagers who are struggling to grow emotionally. They hurt the closest people to them.

Their emotions need to calm down which will take a long time. Then they will need to tear down the wall that they have built and that is blinding them. Then, they may start seeing their issues and then they'll have a choice to make. Either go through the pain and face their issues or continue running.

It is very complicated. So I decided to also run away from her issues and move on.

My 2 cents!

Kiro,

Do you know my sitch? Do you know me and wife in RL? I kid, I kid but your description all they way down to the IC realizing they are kind of a lost hope at this point feels so accurate to me. What I am saying is that your perception of the issue of your W, feels like a mirror image of my reality.

[kiro]

feels like a mirror image of my reality.

Twofeet, they all are . They say the same things, do the same things, follow the same steps, etc. It's mind-blowing!

On that occasion, I'll give another one of my religious sermons Humans all act the same way and go through similar stages in life, but because we have limited knowledge, we are incapable of understanding and predicting it. Even professional psychologists and other specialists have a hard time understanding and articulating our emotional and psychological states. But God created us and He knows what is best for us. These problems often occur when people move away from His path. There. I said it

[paco123]

FSolo: "Somewhere out there is a woman who shares the depth of your soul and the fierceness of your intelligence. That woman may be your W. Right now it is not."

If by moving on, you mean detach, I am trying. I am also trying to internalize Therapist's admonition that I can't fix everything. But moving on for me does not mean NOT (pardon the emphatic double negative) taking cautious, prudent, selective advantage of opportunities to encourage W to consider an alternative version to her story. It was W's idea to have a one-off MC, but like Scheherazade, Therapist and I have been able to provide narratives that motivate her to keep going. W does want to heal and Therapist is THAT good. Ultimately, it is W's decision to continue to go.

Kiro: "It's gotta be more complicated than that..."

Yes, but everything I think is rooted in W's difficulties in processing feelings. All through W's life, people have been telling her how "nice" she is. This exacerbated by W's tendency to take emotional responsibility for the room. She now talks about having been in a long state of feeling she needed to accommodate me, kids, her family. With kids gone, I think so much of her pent up resentments need release. Close female friends of mine have noted this not unusual for women who reach a certain age. And who better for W to blame for unhappiness than the person closes to her? But we all know what that's like.

By the way, I do appreciate everyone's input and the back-and-forth. I am quite candid about whether a particular comment resonates as true for me or not. If I do not convey the latter graciously, I apologize.

[SteveLW]

Just be careful at dismissing things you might think aren't true. I was just like that when I started here too. However, more often than not if someone recognizes something in your sitch there is at least some truth in it. Even the most level-headed of LBSs still go into states of denial. I've been there myself.

[paco123]

Got it, Steve. Thanks. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

I guess the bottom line for me are these two questions:

(1) I can speculate and mind-read all I want about W's thoughts and actions, but will any scenario change the one thing over which I exert control: How do I respond lovingly, while also protecting my own interests?

(2) Am I confident enough in my capacity to navigate the future, regardless of outcome, that I can afford--during this period in W's existential state--to take considered and cautious emotional risks to help her? And to do this (faking it till I make it) with no expectations for myself?

[kiro]

Paco,

My last replies are partly due to my failings to heal totally from my own sitch. As Steve said, I think that there is usually some truth in what I wrote previously that you should take into account. But overall I think you are doing great and handling your sitch with great courage, wisdom and patience. I am learning from your wisdom and it’s helping me overcome the last piece of my healing, which is forgiving.

IMO, the answer to your questions is that you are taking some risk and choosing the more difficult path. It is easier to give up and move on. What you are doing may extend your healing process, but it is worth it as long as you feel it’s the right thing to do. Just make sure you protect yourself, financially, health-wise and emotionally.

I truly believe that an LBS has to take time before moving on to be at peace with himself knowing he did what he could.

[FlySolo]

Paco - no-one here can tell you when to stand down. That is something only you can decide.

But I would caution trying to encourage your W to see an 'alternate version to her story'. Her story is skewed but only she can unskew it and she has to do it in her own time. Until she is ready to face her truth your W will fight tooth and nail to maintain her narrative, and yes, she will blame the person she is closest too. The story will get twisted more and more because she will be driven to protect herself. Plus, remember, there are no absolute truths when it comes to memories and feelings. There is only our internal interpretation of those memories and feelings. Look within yourself because this is all you can control ... what you will see is that no marriage is perfect, all of us are flawed, and therefore, to some extent, we are all at fault for the issues in our marriages.

Work on you. Turn the light on you. Leave your W be for now. And by this I don't mean let her go but give her the space to work things out for herself. Your W will get there. But in her own time.

You've said that your W's problems are 'rooted in her inability to process feelings' - have you suggested IC? I think sometimes our presence in MC may actually hinder their progress and force them to focus on their resentment of us instead of on themselves.

[kiro]

have you suggested IC?

I once did that and my W said she already did and the IC confirmed that I had abused her emotionally lol :), which was one her numerous ways to blame me since BD. Just saying that if they’re not ready they’ll choose an IC only to confirm their story and will disregard anything else that could contradict it.

Once when she told me that I had abused her emotionally justifying it by trivial meaningless examples, I responded that she was the one who had abused me by her emotional coldness and indifference. She was totally taken by surprise and I could see the shock on her face . She had a moment of clarity before going back to her story.

[paco123]

K: I am overwhelmed by your empathy and gentle compassion. I am sure you've heard the cliche: anger and bitterness are the poison we keep swallowing, hoping that the other person will die. I am sure forgiveness of ex-W will come over time. I trust you.

FS: Actually, Therapist we have been seeing is hers. W has been in IC and asked me to join her for one session with her therapist so we could achieve closure. What was supposed to be a one-off session transitioned to 4 over the past two months.

FS, your advice to give W space to focus on herself is sound. But I do think the joint sessions were pivotal. As Therapist told me when we first spoke by phone, "I feel like I've been reading a book with missing chapters and that you are supplying the other half of the book." I don't know what marriage narrative Therapist formed during her individual sessions with W, but I don't think I came across as some cruel, angry cad (W's characterization of me) during our joint sessions.

At the very least, I hope I helped Therapist avoid the mistake K's ex-W's therapist made, which was to unquestioningly accept ex-W's version of events. I don't think it's any therapist's role to be unconditional cheerleader of the client.

[paco123]

Journaling:

Steve recently raised interesting questions which generalizes to an issue that probably resonates with most of us: at what point does the LBS become the WAS?

At her initiative, W and I spent some time the other day doing R talking. On the one hand, she stated adamantly she has no intention of returning to and working on the M.

On the other hand, zooming out and looking at the past year's narrative arc, I see subtle changes:

- In February, in a fit of what I can only call "amygdala hijack," she walked away abruptly, informing me of her plans by post-it note and emailing the kids of her decision. She claimed she feared for her emotional safety.

- During the first few months, she accused me of intentional cruelty and blamed me for most everything wrong with the M.

- Beginning October, we began meeting with Therapist. What W intended to be a one-off for closure turned into a series of sessions, during which we identified recurring patterns of behavior impeding the M.

- During these sessions, W began acknowledging her need for space to figure things out; recognizing and expressing gratitude for my positive attributes; and reducing the amount of blaming. She stated she was in an emotional fog in February, driven purely by feelings.

- The other day, W insisted that M didn't have to be this hard and that that life shouldn't be filled with "agitations," W's term for emotional conflicts. I responded by saying that what she calls "agitations," I call part of life.

Back to Steve's question: when do I choose to be the WAS? I am the only one who can answer this, but my random thoughts are:
- I still love her...very much. I believe now is a time she needs me more than ever. I accept her desire for space to figure things out.
- I do NOT want to return to M, version 1. In M, version 2, we need to learn constructive tools to deal with "antagonisms."
- I will continue to work on the life projects I find meaningful.
- I just met a woman from Argentina. She spoke of wanting to travel through Central America with me. I am not attracted to her, but she does represent future possibilities of alternative life partners. Too soon to act on now, but not too soon to be open to these possibilities.

Bottom line: for now, at the cusp of a new year, looking at the subtle shifts from W's initial position, I choose to remain the LBS; I'm not quite ready to be the WAS.