The story in my mind is becoming clearer, which does not make my choice to wait any easier.
The story is W's need for individuation. W had her first exclusive relationship at 15; from then, she really never went through an extended period of being alone. W derives much of her sense of identity from her childhood family, and then from our family of which she is mom.
W describes much of her sense of unhappiness with me in terms of emotional agitation whenever I express emotions inconsistent with hers. I can understand, intellectually, how a lack of individuation might cause W to be so caught up with my existence as the the reason for her happiness or unhappiness, even when it is not my behavior but rather my honesty with my emotions that trouble her. W affirmed this in recent conversations.
I can also understand--INTELLECTUALLY--why W would now feel she must be apart from me to find a sense of peace and to find a sense of herself.
I would rejoice if W said to me: "I need 3 years for myself. To find out who I am apart from you. To define my sense of inner joy that is independent of you." I would give her the space she needed. And wait while I went about my own business.
My hypothesis (and it is just that) stirs my compassion towards her. But it does not make the sitch any easier to work through. But this is the existential state for many of us LBSpouses, is it not?
My WW's justification for her A is that we married young and have been together since we were 16. There is no justification for an A in my opinion and I wish she would have just divorced me instead. Of course I wish we would have went to MC first a long time ago. Coulda woulda shoulda.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
1 - W says there is neither EA nor PA. I believe her. Her family members, our mutual friends, and our kids affirm this.
2 - I know I am in the minority here, but to me, the betrayal in an A is not the act but in dishonesty. Monogamy strikes me increasingly as a social contract running counter to biology. I know happy couples who have it within them to operate within nonexclusive physical relationships. Seems more common among the younger people I know. All depends on the terms of each couple's agreement.
Oh I agree. We are not a young couple. Not an old couple either. But I married with expectations of monogamy and loyalty. Unfortunately my WW betrayed her vows to do just that.
I had no issue being monogamous. None at all, even at our lowest times. And I agree, it's not the sex that bothers me. It's the betrayal of my trust and the complete and utter removal of her love from me coupled with her seething hate generated by her self justified false assumptions of why it was ok to do just that.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
My WW used both justifications (individuation and married too young) among many other things.
Guys, you need to stop doubting yourselves and your core values. They broke their commitent and betrayed our trust. Don’t waste too much time trying to understand. Don’t believe what they say. They became wayward, experienced temptation and acted according to that impulse. They will look for all kind of justification to blame eveyrthing and everyone else instead of taking responsibility for their actions. One can grow and achieve individuation without breaking a marriage.
We all have flaws and make mistakes, but we are still responsible for our actions. What you feel is real. You feel betrayed because they betrayed us. End of story. The rest is all b.s.
Marriage is a contract with clear rules. Monogamy, commitment and trust are among these. But it’s a contract that doesn’t have any penalty clauses. We have to accept that there is a risk that one partner will break some of the rules.
Your decision to wait or move on shouldn’t be based on what THEY say. It should be based on what YOU want. Do you want to forgive and have the patience to wait and see?
I am yet to read a success story where the LBS says “waiting was the best thing I did because we reconciled and we are happier than ever before”. At best, I read stories about people who reconciled and barely made it through.
Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14 BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017 Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
Oh Kiro I was just making a statement. I have no doubts. I'm on the me train now lol. I got off the rollercoaster.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
W's choices and behavior are complex. Yes, W CAN achieve individuation within the M. As long as it doesn't drive me up the wall, understanding why she chooses not to helps me deal not just with her but others. As long as it's not self-destructive, efforts at empathy and compassion are aspects of MY individuation and how I define myself; acting otherwise would be inauthentic.
W's choices and behavior are complex. Yes, W CAN achieve individuation within the M. As long as it doesn't drive me up the wall, understanding why she chooses not to helps me deal not just with her but others. As long as it's not self-destructive, efforts at empathy and compassion are aspects of MY individuation and how I define myself; acting otherwise would be inauthentic.
Disagree. There is also move on while you wait. This is DBing! You aren't giving up on your MR, but you are doing things (180s, GAL, detachment) that are also you moving on. And it can be quite effective.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Monogamy strikes me increasingly as a social contract running counter to biology.
More and more I am coming to the conclusion that monogamy should be viewed as ONE option of many. I came across some really interesting stuff about open relationships and hearing some folks who are doing it - the most honest and transparent discussion about open relationships is from Aubrey Marcus (he has a podcast where's he's delved deeply into it), and it really made me want to understand it more. Also, reading Sex at Dawn was eye opening when it comes to understanding evolutionary biology and sex.
Anyways, my point is that marriage as a social contract might not be the best option for some people and sometimes we realize that way too late, or we ignore what we really want to follow the 'rules'. I am still scratching my head to understand 'why' I agreed to 'marriage' in the first place. For the life of me I can't think of a single reason aside from the fact that it was what I was 'supposed' to do - fall in love, get married, have kids, live happily forever. I don't think I did the first of those two with clear reasoning and open eyes.
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MY choice is simple and binary: wait or move on.
That is a false binary.
1. Moving On - the LBS has made the decision to end the MR and explore other relationships. This decision is in the hands of the LBS.
2. Moving Forward - the LBS is still standing for the marriage, and they are simultaneously engaged in personal growth, getting a life, and detaching and reclaiming themselves. Standing does not equal waiting.
Just go live your life and pursue your goals and all of that. You're moving forward.
I agree. What I meant is, like you said, that her inner choices are complex. It’s mainly based on emotional feelings that they can’t even explain. Then they come up with all kinds of rational justifications to try to explain. I don’t believe most of what they say. I think, for myself, that achieving empathy has to be based on something a little more substantial and not on illusions. So I try to understand the pains she felt during the M whether it’s due to my behaviour or not. And I also feel for her current pain and confusion. But I don’t believe the rational they give to justify what they did (do).
The proof is that we can’t debate rationally with them. They’ll either run away, get angry, or will just change their story and come up with other justifications. And usually, they have no issue lying and denying facts. They will twist anything to proove what they want to do, and what they want to do is based on a feeling.
Their brain acts like a lawyer who is trying to defend someone guilty by looking for any arguments that can proove his case. If the other lawyer dismantles his argument, he’ll just look for new ones.
My main concern (for me and other LBSs) is falling for the trap of believing that what the WAS/WW did was justifiable and ok. And then starting to doubt our beliefs about M and commitment. Unfortunately, modern society with its extremism in liberalism wants us to believe that everything is relative that there are no absolute right and wrong, and then that every act can be justified by an individual’s liberty.
Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14 BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017 Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
