What direction NOW? pt. 2

[sandi2]

Thank so much, Sandi! Great explanations and advice.

Well thanks, but most of them can be found in MWD's Divorce Remedy. I added some, put in the explanations, and typed the list up as they came to my mind. I wish I had done a better job, and at least organized it. But that's how they were entering my mind as I typed the post. I've been thinking about trying to do an updated version and add more explanations, since I've been able to see the ones that cause newcomers the most confusion.

Question: My w has been saying that my attitude stinks lately. She says at times I'm borderline rude and pushing her away. Do you think that means that she has noticed a shift...or that I need to work on being nicer to her while following the rules?? I don't think I've been rude or had a bad attitude at all...I've just been a lot less talkative and more direct with short answers. She has also used the term "Mr. Independent" to describe me lately.

I have found newcomers, and especially if they have NGS, to struggle in finding balance. They go from one end of the spectrum to the extreme opposite end. Finding the middle is difficult for them. So, my guess is that you are coming across to her as being cold, angry, or pouting. This is true for some who are trying to learn how to detach.

I remember some people thinking the rule about not starting conversations meant not to speak.

This morning she asks me "do you think we will ever try to be intimate again?" My response was "I don't know"

When she asks stupid questions, just look at her as if she's lost her mind and say, "Seriously?" If it were you seeing OW, would your W be checking to see if the two of you will ever have sex again? I doubt it.

SHe then went on a speech about how she is trying so hard to end the affair...saying she hasn't seen him in weeks and she has said NO to every request from him to get together for weeks.

There is no "try" in ending an affair. There is no tapering off. There is no one last time in order to get "closure". It has to be sudden, final, and forever. As long as she is having any sort of contact with him, she'll stay addicted. Once she ends all contact, then she'll go through withdrawals and think she's going to die if she doesn't have some type of contact with him. The fact that the OM is still contacting her shows that she has not done what she needs to do to stop an A. She has not convince the OM that she really means it. Apparently, she has not blocked him from her phone or however he's contacting her. She's spoiled and doesn't want to end the A. She's probably crying and telling him how hard this is for her, and how much she misses him. If she's said this to her H, why wouldn't say it to her lover?

If my spouse told me that he was trying to end his A with OW......I would be so furious there's no telling what I might do, but one thing is for sure, he'd know not to tell me he was trying to stop screwing another woman or trying to not talk to her! But you see, I have also leaned that women who become WW's usually have a certain temperament and spunk.... and based on the stories here, the majority seem to be M to men with NGS.

she was almost arguing with herself about how hard it has been to back away from OM...and that she feels she deserves at least some credit for trying/doing better.

No credit earned as long as she continues to interact with OM. She is milking this for what all it's worth. What? You are suppose to feel sorry for her or praise her for not doing him recently? Like I said, think of how it would be if you were the one in an A.

Let me tell you something else that is often seen in WW cases. The WW is motivated by her selfishness, and she has a sense of entitlement. She can act like a spoiled brat, b/c her nice-guy H has spoiled her rotten. The more spoiled and bigger sense of entitlement......the tougher love the H has to apply.

I did my best to validate her feelings...and said that if she truly wants to work on saving our marriage...it has to be over.

How? What did you say to validate her feelings? I mean, LBH's are always saying that they validate the WW, but they don't say how they validate. Call me cold.....call me mean and hateful.....but I would not validate a WW who is crying over not being able to see her AP. Look, this is exactly why your WW feels she can cheat on you and show disrespect.....b/c you are too nice. You are too soft. You want to know why she continued sounding as if she was arguing with herself? B/c she wanted to get a sympathetic response, and wanted you to do your comforting thing when she turns on the tears. She temp checked you.

I did my best to validate her feelings...look her in eye...and using as few words as possible. In the end I reminded her that she asked for time & space to work thru this...and I have been giving her that. I said now it's me that is taking time & space to figure our what I want to do. Then I walked away.

I liked that last part you said, and then walked away. However, she's not convinced.

She left with her son to go shopping

Real tore up, wasn't she?

I left the house to gal.

That's great! Exactly what you should have done!

She called just now to say they are on the way home...and asked other kid related questions...normal phone call.

No, this was no "normal" phone call. She just temp checked you again. That was her way to see if she could determine if you sounded upset or cold or whatever, after you said your little bit and walked away from her. And also, she wanted to know where the heck you were (b/c you didn't check with her), what you were doing, and when you would be home. Yep! That's okay, you've made a good start. Now, just hang with it, b/c it's going to be a bumpy ride.

I try not to dissect every conversation with her...but that is kind of a side effect of this board.

Well, you'll see a lot of posts where we dissect someone else's post on their thread, b/c that's one of the ways we can specifically point things out and try to tell you what was really going on with the spouse, and try to offer the tools to use if they experience it again. And then there are a lot of newcomers who dissect there spouse's actions, etc., due to their own stress about their sitch. But I'm glad you brought this up, b/c I don't want you to feel like anyone is beating you up or picking on you. I have felt a little sorry for some newcomers who feel like they can't do anything right. They don't know it's just cause we love 'em.

[ovrrnbw]

DC,

how you doin man? I had to laugh at this:

Question: My w has been saying that my attitude stinks lately. She says at times I'm borderline rude and pushing her away. Do you think that means that she has noticed a shift...or that I need to work on being nicer to her while following the rules?? I don't think I've been rude or had a bad attitude at all...I've just been a lot less talkative and more direct with short answers. She has also used the term "Mr. Independent" to describe me lately.

You'll laugh your butt off as you gain more experience and look back at this. WW's are pros when it comes to projection. She is projecting her feelings on to you. Then she hits you with a temp-check. She wants to make sure you still want her. You didn't take the bait, good job. I failed that test so many times, and was happy to see you stayed ho-hum on it. Then she dug deeper and asked again and started name calling. She is goading you into admitting you want her or to start an argument with the name calling. Fuggedaboutit....

LH is so right man you don't even know. You either stand up for yourself now or sit down and buckle up for a wild, crappy ride. I took the NGS, weak route because the immediate pain scared me. Trust me, this woman is watching you like a lion watches a gazelle. Sounds primitive, but I've always said that people are animals too. We just like to pretend that we're somehow better or more sophisticated.

[DC421]

UGH. FAIL!!!

We got into it again last night as she pulled me into an argument....and I couldn't bite my tounge. The whole time I'm seeing "LH19" flashing in my mind and your reminder how crucial of a point I'm at....but I (bleeping) dove right in. UGH. She kept givng me the excuses...and telling me she's trying...and I just let the word diarrea fly. Telling her she's full of it...trying means nothing...and "just go live with that moron. I'm sure you'll have a great life in his parents basement." blah blah blah. She just kept saying "I don't want too" when I told her to leave and have a nice life with him. I told her I had met with my attorney and I'm not afraid of divorce! God, I'm just such a sucker to get pulled into that. Again, ;the entire time I'm hearing all of you guys from here yelling at me! I finally regrouped and walked away and went to bed. She stayed out of the bedroom. Just a massive fail...but it's so hard to stop myself at times. So hard...she's ruined so much joy and happiness and just destroyed so many memories with her selfishness. I guess I just need to look at it as a learning experience? DB like a monster in 2019...keep reading, keep learning, keep hoping....at least for a while. I meant what I said in an earlier post...I am looking forward to the new year. 2018 was the worst...as Clark Griswold said "worse. How can it get any worse?"

LH and Over...I appreaciate your posts. Even with this massive fair...I'm trying...don't give up on me yet.

To answer some questions and more...

Sandi... As you said. Finding the middle is so hard. I find myself bouncing from one extreme to the other. One minute I want to believe her BS....then I come here and read the truth from those who have lived it. One minute I want to shower her with love....then I want to put her in my car and drive the OM house and say "good luck with THAT!"

Yes...i know, i know i know....there is no "trying" to end the affair. All or nothing! I continue to really struggle when she throws out the "I'm trying" crap. I hear words from the page in my head..."validate", "tough love", "say nothing", "remain calm and be short with words"...I get stuck....until I unload way more that I should.

As far as validating...I simply said "I'm sure it's hard on you". But I still don't know the correct response. As I said before, I don't feel I'm at a strong enough spot YET...to put down the ultimatum/boundary. But I am getting close to at least laying down some rules of an in home separation and keeping her out of the MBR. She is totally getting away with cake eating....and I keep stumbling and letting this continue.

Sandi...by the way...I in NO WAY feel beat up by any of your advice or posts on this page. I value each and every piece of advice...even when it may appear that I'm not listening....I am. I just keep getting in my own way. I'm trying. But, give it to me straight...I can take it.

[LH19]

UGH. FAIL!!!

[quote=DC421] We got into it again last night as she pulled me into an argument....and I couldn't bite my tounge. The whole time I'm seeing "LH19" flashing in my mind and your reminder how crucial of a point I'm at....but I (bleeping) dove right in. UGH.

Learning to control your emotions is difficult but crucial especially in situations like this. When you feel yourself losing control simply walk away.

She kept givng me the excuses...and telling me she's trying...and I just let the word diarrea fly. Telling her she's full of it...trying means nothing...and "just go live with that moron. I'm sure you'll have a great life in his parents basement." blah blah blah. She just kept saying "I don't want too" when I told her to leave and have a nice life with him. I told her I had met with my attorney and I'm not afraid of divorce! God, I'm just such a sucker to get pulled into that.
Again, ;the entire time I'm hearing all of you guys from here yelling at me!

You shouldn't being making these idol threats especially when you are not prepared to back them up it makes you look weak.

I finally regrouped and walked away and went to bed. She stayed out of the bedroom. Just a massive fail...but it's so hard to stop myself at times.

Perfect move. Tonight move all her stuff in the other room and establish from this point forward you do not share a bed with a cheater.

So hard...she's ruined so much joy and happiness and just destroyed so many memories with her selfishness. I guess I just need to look at it as a learning experience? DB like a monster in 2019...keep reading, keep learning, keep hoping....at least for a while. I meant what I said in an earlier post...I am looking forward to the new year. 2018 was the worst...as Clark Griswold said "worse. How can it get any worse?"

This is probably going to be the hardest thing you have ever gone through in your life. Unfortunately it is going to get worse before it gets better so I want you to start to prepare for it.

LH and Over...I appreaciate your posts. Even with this massive fair...I'm trying...don't give up on me yet.

I am not going to give up on you. Part of my purpose and mission to try to help people on this board.

One minute I want to believe her BS....then I come here and read the truth from those who have lived it. One minute I want to shower her with love....then I want to put her in my car and drive the OM house and say "good luck with THAT!"

It is natural to want to believe the woman you love. Unfortunately I have been on this board for 4 years and everything is so predictable I feel like Nostradamus sometimes.

Yes...i know, i know i know....there is no "trying" to end the affair. All or nothing! I continue to really struggle when she throws out the "I'm trying" crap. I hear words from the page in my head..."validate", "tough love", "say nothing", "remain calm and be short with words"...I get stuck....until I unload way more that I should.

You don't want to over validate a wayward wife it can make you look weak and pathetic.

As far as validating...I simply said "I'm sure it's hard on you". But I still don't know the correct response. As I said before, I don't feel I'm at a strong enough spot YET...to put down the ultimatum/boundary.

I would just simply say " I know it's hard. Sometimes life is really hard".

But I am getting close to at least laying down some rules of an in home separation and keeping her out of the MBR. She is totally getting away with cake eating....and I keep stumbling and letting this continue.

I am going to give you my opinion. In house separation rarely works and it will put you into limbo that will suck the life out of you. I am also very leery of you trying to set ground rules for an in house separation because of the concern you will not be able to implement consequences for the rules being broken. What do you have in mind for ground rules?

[DC421]

LH - Thanks as always for the words! As for as IHS goes...I agree. I'm not 100% confident in myself yet. I do feel I could back up the boundary of not sharing the bed going forward. Is that worth it for a start...or should I wait until I feel more confident?? And if so, is it best to put it to here like you said..."I will no longer share a bed with a cheater". Or is that too harsh language?

I must be completely misunderstanding validation. I will go back and read that thread again. I have never understood the point of it....and your comment about not validating a WW just make sense. When is the right time for validation?

[LH19]

DC,

Start with the Master bedroom right away. She slept elsewhere last night. Make it permanent until the affair stops. How about "Under the current circumstances, I will not be sharing the martial bed with you right now."

I am not saying validating her in certain circumstances isn't good right now. I am just saying to be careful over doing it and validating her affair.

I am concerned that by the time you get strong enough, too much damage will have been done and it will be too late.

If you have time read Hurt123's thread and see what happens when affairs are open and tolerated.

[burned]

I am concerned that by the time you get strong enough, too much damage will have been done and it will be too late.

DC, you’ve got some really good guidance very early in your sitch, or at least early in your attempts to influence the outcome. You’ve probably read some of my stuff, so I can tell you from firsthand experience what LH means by “strong enough.” Not sure how I feel about the “too late” part. Too late to save the M, as-is? Maybe? Possibly not too late to recon later? Not sure. (Curious to hear more from Nostradamus.) But look at Joe2017 and how quickly he got strong, maybe that’s why he got a chance for recon within a year.

I’m also curious to see how the IHS vs. physical S plays out. I hear people say that IHS is difficult and physical S is “better” in a sense. I didn’t have a choice in the matter but I’m starting to feel the benefits of physical S after many months. I imagine it would be a very hard choice to make if I had to make it myself.

So, hang in there, buddy. Show us how a real man handles himself.

[LH19]

Of course there is always a chance of recon after divorce but the odds go way down.

[Ready2Change]

Start with the Master bedroom right away. She slept elsewhere last night. Make it permanent until the affair stops. How about "Under the current circumstances, I will not be sharing the martial bed with you right now."

Make it YOURS. Make it Manly.

Pictures of Motorcycle, Cars, Guns, whatever. Get new bedding. Put the stereo in there. Listen to it as loud as you like.

[Ready2Change]

Respectfully put her things out of the room.