What I learned from Wife's MLC- Part2

[kiro]

As expected, she thanked me and declined the invitation.

At least, I feel that I continue to do what’s right and gave her an opportunity to spend time with her kids.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

[paco123]

Way to go, K! You did the right thing with your invitation.

Kids (grownup and independent) and I spoke weeks ago. They said they agreed to spend Xmas Eve with one and Xmas Day with the other. I chose Xmas Eve and invited W to join us, which she accepted. Nice time for all.

W did not reciprocate with invitation to Xmas Day.

All any of us can do is "do what's right" by our inner compass. What others do is their business.

[paco123]

K, hate to have you answer a hypothetical, but if your wife did not press for D, do you think you'd still be waiting?

[kiro]

Hi Paco, it’s a very difficult question. I think the only answer I can give is ‘it depends’.

If there were any signs she was getting out of her fog, I could have waited a little longer.

But sooner or later, I would have probably asked for D myself:
-to protect myself and my kids financially,
-to have the freedom to make my own decisions about my assets,
-to be able to plan my financial retirement given the new circumstances,
-and to have a clear agreement about the kids custody and their expenses.

And of course to be able to move on emotionally and be open to new relationships.

So I guess I could have (maybe) waited a little longer but not much more

[kiro]

And whether I waited or not, I know what I want in the woman that I choose to be my W. This current version of my STBXW is not someone I would choose to marry. So it doesn’t really matter if I waited or not. If one day she returns to the woman I once knew, I could always go back to her even after moving on.

If in the meantime, I meet another woman that matches my criteria and we are happy together, then going back to my first W would be irrelevant anyway because I’d be happy.

A lot of hypothetical if’s.

[paco123]

K, as you might have guessed, there's a context for my question. But rather than hijack your thread, I will raise it on my own post and encourage you, if the spirit moves you, to comment thereon.

[kiro]

Paco and others,

I really appreciate all the information and theories available on this site and in other places about MLC, WAS, WW, etc. ...but I do have important observations:

- As we all know, the WAS doesn't agree with these theories. The WAS doesn't view themself as someone in a crisis or in a fog. From their perception, they thought about it during a long time and are making a conscious premeditated deliberate decision to leave.

- Despite all the theories and advice we get on this site (or from books, MCs, ICs, etc.), no one can predict the outcome of this crisis.

These characteristics don't fit a real "scientific" theory. In science, a theory is a sound rational explanation of some aspect of nature based on facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Theories must be able to make predictions with consistent accuracy.

What we are facing when we have a MLCer/WAS/WW resembles (from our perspective) random probability much more than a real testable scientific theory. It's like playing the lottery or tossing a coin. You wait and hope for a positive outcome that you don't control.

We don't even have any experimental results or statistical numbers that tell us what is the probability of WAS coming back or the duration of a MLC. It's all a guessing game.

It's definitely interesting to see the similarities between different WAS's. But other than these initial similarities, there is no known pattern that can predict the outcome. It's almost like saying that all coins look alike, but this doesn't help us predict if we will get tail or head. They are similar in their unpredictability.

Before the internet, an LBS didn't have access to all this material and would have probably done the natural instinctual things after BD: cry, beg, bargain, pursue... and then would have gone through the stages of grief before finally accepting and moving on with life.

Most of the advice we get is almost the same advice we would give a young person who is looking for a partner to start a new stable relationship:
- be attractive
- believe in yourself and show confidence
- take care of yourself and look the best you can
- don't be needy
- be independent
- be gentle and kind

If that young person was fixated on someone who rejected them and is not able to accept rejection and move on, most probably that person would be miserable for a long time. We're almost dealing with a similar sitch here.

[Twofeet]

Hey Kiro,

I follow your thread and you ask some tough questions and I don't comment because I just lack the experience and knowledge to answer. However, WRT your previous post with my scientific background I never studied humans, but I was always told that they are always an extremely hard variable to control for. Basically once humans enter your system all bets are off, and studying humans all bets are off. I do think there is something to the WAS/WS/MLC. They all follow a similar script or dare I say a symptom of a disease. I have read and heard psychologist and psychiatrist who want to label divorce as an epidemic or mental disease. I know Dr. John Gottman had developed models that could pretty accurately predict divorce. I don't know if his research deals with the WAS/WW/MLC mentality. I also dont know if his predictors are based on a snapshot of the current MR because they typically evolve. I think someone could do something to study this concept, but I think it would have to get to the level of a meta analysis before any answers could start to present themselves.

[kiro]

Hey Kiro,

I follow your thread and you ask some tough questions and I don't comment because I just lack the experience and knowledge to answer. However, WRT your previous post with my scientific background I never studied humans, but I was always told that they are always an extremely hard variable to control for. Basically once humans enter your system all bets are off, and studying humans all bets are off. I do think there is something to the WAS/WS/MLC. They all follow a similar script or dare I say a symptom of a disease. I have read and heard psychologist and psychiatrist who want to label divorce as an epidemic or mental disease. I know Dr. John Gottman had developed models that could pretty accurately predict divorce. I don't know if his research deals with the WAS/WW/MLC mentality. I also dont know if his predictors are based on a snapshot of the current MR because they typically evolve. I think someone could do something to study this concept, but I think it would have to get to the level of a meta analysis before any answers could start to present themselves.

I agree that humans are unpredictable. Maybe this is exactly my point. As LBS, we expect the outcome from our WAS to go in a certain way because we think we know that person. But in reality, it’s almost like trying to seduce any stranger. We have no idea how this person will react and whether we will have a second chance in the future if we get rejected the first time...

New LBS’s are looking for answers, but there aren’t any. In some social sciences, you can predict the probability of certain outcomes at a macro level (for a large sample of people). But I haven’t even seen any such statistics for WAS/MLC.

[Twofeet]

Yes that's the one thing I have come to understand is that the only answer I have is there is no answer. The only hope to bring the S back is to be the best person you can be, but it doesn't guarantee the desired outcome. Just put the outcome in God's hands.