What I learned from Wife's MLC- Part2

[harvey]

My H is a very suspicious and controlling person. He needs to be in control of everything and everyone around him. He is a man who 'sweats the little things'. At first this didn't bother me. We balanced each other out. I could bring him down from whatever was causing him anxiety that day (taking a wrong turn on the highway, being late for a childrens birthday party), and he, for want of a better phrase, grounded me (I would forget my own head if it wasn't screwed on). But over the years, his need for everything to be 'perfect' and to allocate blame when it wasn't became more and more directed at me until eventually, in order to protect myself, it just all became white noise. So constant, I stopped hearing it. This is what he saw as emotional detachment and it caused the criticism and the blame to get worse and worse. I dreaded whenever I knew he was coming home from a trip because it meant there would be something that I would be blamed for when I got home. So, I would walk in the door already with my defence mechanism up -> cold and detached. I dreaded any conversation I had with him because I knew it would end with my not having taken he garbage out, or leaving a window open, or forgetting to iron one of the children's PE shirts. So, I stopped having conversations.

The BD was precipitated by me. In the six-nine months preceding BD he became more controlling and more critical and I became more closed off. I told him I had had enough and that we should think about separating. Was I ready to walk out ... no. If I am honest with myself, I really just wanted to scare him into wanting to work on us.

Would the BD have happened even if I had not been the catalyst? Yes. Because we were making each other miserable and it had to happen. This realisation has taken the longest to come to terms with because it has been so painful and it is in our nature to create narratives that protect us from the pain. I am going to write it again for emphasis.

Our sitches have a lot of similarity. Substitute your H with my XW and you with me, and this would sound a lot like my story.

[FlySolo]

Lifted from my thread ...

FlySolo, as I said before my interactions with my W was very similar. The difference is that she is the one who left and I am the one who worked on myself more than her. So in a way, I think I understand both of you because I lived it during 17 years. And I did the work that needs to be done for someone who has (had) some similar flaws as your H.

I thought of leaving him many times. I never did it though. Lack of courage or a belief that when the children were more independent we would have more time for us. There was love in our relationship. Real true love and I still believed / believe that it is there somewhere. I use to say whenever someone asked why I let him speak to me the way he did (normally his family because they were the only ones who witnessed it) that I loved him but at times didn't like him very much.

There is an excellent post somewhere on the wife who put her heart in a box. Hopefully someone will read this and be able to point you in the direction. It talks of a woman who, after years of feeling alone, puts her heart in a box.

But unlike you, I am more confident that I have changed and that I will be able to behave differently in a new relationship either with my W or with someone else. But this takes continuous work and I need to be aware of my behavior at all times. Like you said, I didn't learn my bad habits over night. I used to be angry, controlling, critical and uptight a lot of time. Like you, I think I knew on some level what I was doing, but I never stopped to think about the effect it could have on other people (my W). I never brought the light on what I was doing. I only focused on what she was doing wrong.

I hope that you and I, and others here, learn from the past, forgive ourselves (and our) and move into our next relationship better stronger people. Otherwise, what have any of us gained from this. I do not want the old R back with my H. I would like to build a new one based on respect, compassion and, yes, for me, showing that they matter more than a warm body in the bed, or a shared babysitter. They matter because they are them.

Also, my perception was (is) that I was nice and kind most of the time because I only considered the amount of time I was nice which was most of the day compared to the time I criticized or said something harsh which was maybe once or twice a day. I never realized that because of this 1 or 2 things I said every day that probably lasted not more than 1 or 2 minutes, she couldn't appreciate the remaining long hours of the day. Her perception was completely different (like yours); she thinks I was mean and critical all the time and probably could have said the same as you "the little scraps he throws me at time".

We remember and see what we want to. Perception bais. My H thinks I was constantly losing phones. In fact, in the 15 years we lived together I have lost maybe 2 phones and misplaced 1 (it turned up in a shoe - so probably one of the children). If she was looking for things that validated her belief that you were controlling or critical then that is all she will see. That is all I saw for a long time. It wasn't until I found an anniversary card from him (2 months before BD) which said "I love you more now than ever" that I realised what I had lost. I started thinking of all the times he would come home having bought me something whilst he was away, or the fact that he always called me (it use to annoy me that he would call instead of text when I was at work and want to talk forever) and he was always the one who came in for a kiss when we said goodbye or that every phone call and text had "love you" at the end. You notice what you want and ignore the rest. It is only with time and willingness that we are able to look at things objectively. I hope that my H remembers the good things i did. That I was always home. That I put the children first. That we had and will always have chemistry. That our relationship was founded on love.

I am fortunate as there are others here who have to live (and continue standing) for spouses who have abandoned not just them, but the children.

I am one of those people. My W abandoned everything, including her family and kids. It's heartbreaking!

I am so sorry. I always wonder if there is a line he could cross that would make me not want him back. I suspect this is that line. That you can see past this suggests you are a better person than I.

I have no real advise that has not been said before. Focus on you and what you need to heal. I hope I have helped you understand your W and in a way help you to see what you could have done differently. However you can't fix her. What's done is done. Only your W can fix your W and she can't even begin to do that until she has hit rock bottom.

Good luck Kiro. I think, despite your view that you were controlling and critical, if you are like my H, then deep down under the hurt, you are one of the good ones.

[FlySolo]

But I have a hard time forgiving her for not trying to save the M.

I think if was AnotherStander who said that 50% of the breakdown of his marriage was on him. But it was his wife who bailed and for that he was giving her 5% back.

This, I think sums up how you and I both feel.

[kiro]

FlySolo,

If you read this, could you give me your opinion on my Sitch?

We were married for 17 years. We have 2 boys (13 and 17).

When we first met about 20 years ago, she was the one who pursued me. We got married as soon as she finished her university. I am 7 years older than her, so I was already working and had a good job. Then we got our first son a year later. W never worked for the first 8 or 9 years of M. She said she didn't want to.

Both W and I are introverts and relatively shy, but I have a stronger personality than her (at least on the outside). Because we are not very outgoing, we had a quiet family life. We spent most of our time at home or with the kids. We had a group of friends who are all married with kids. We would meet with them once or twice a month usually with all the kids. And on holidays, we would usually travel or do something as a family.

In the last few years, we started doing more things as a couple because our kids were more independent. But I was always the one who put in the effort to organize these. W would just follow along.

W was very dependent on me and had low self esteem. When with people, she would usually be quiet and not saying a word. I also had my insecurities and low self esteem issues, but I am not a quiet person especially when I am with people I know well.

At home, I was controlling. I wanted everything perfect. I was uptight most of the time and became impatient when things weren't the way I wanted. I criticized her and the kids a lot. I am an emotional and impulsive person. So I could say something harsh or angry, but then I would realize what I did, and would later apologize.

I have a masters degree and a good job. W only started working for the 1st time in her 30s and she was working part time at a low paying entry level job. At times, I would tell her harsh things that belittled her and made her feel less than me. She never showed me any feelings, so I never knew how much it hurt her. I would do it sometimes sarcastically.

Later in our M, I continued to work hard, but I wasn't as successful as I was when we first got married. I was still making good money and wasn't making any progress in my career.

Because of my insecurities, I was self absorbed and couldn't relate enough to other people's feelings. So I didn't realize that my harsh words could hurt others. I also didn't know how to hide my negative feelings. When I saw something I didn't like, even if I didn't say anything, it would immediately show in my body language and my tone.

I was also lazy (and selfish) and so I didn't put enough effort to help her or to do things for her. I later realized that her Love Language was exactly that: Doing things for her. My Love Language on the other hand was spending quality time together and communicating verbally.

So bottom line, she didn't feel appreciated and loved. She was in pain because she felt I wasn't kind and loving to her. She dealt with pain like you, by closing off and hiding her emotions. With time, she started pulling away and detaching. She became distant and cold.

I didn't pay too much attention to what was happening. I continued to live on Autopilot, angry and uptight.

Then, the last couple of years before BD, she started taking care of herself more. She made new girl friends who were more assertive. She started being more active in the community and at work. She went to the gym more often and then joined a cycling team and participated in a challenging cycling event. Then she decided to focus on her career and also started a Masters degree.

So she started gaining more confidence in herself and becoming more independent.

Anyway, one thing led to another until summer of 2017, when she told me that she didn't love me anymore and wanted to leave. She left Dec 2017 one year ago. Summer 2018, she asked for D. We ended up signing a settlement agreement and we are now filing for D.

When she left, we were still in good terms. I continued calling her the first few months, we would laugh and she would tell me what she was doing. But then, she started not answering my calls and going No Contact around Feb 2018. Then, in March, I also went No Contact. And this is how it has been since.

When we need to deal with something important, we text each other.


Since BD, I have been trying to take care of myself and my kids. I have improved myself drastically since then. I've become much more empathetic to everyone, I control my temper, I stopped sarcasm completely, I don't criticize my kids or anyone, I compliment others, I listen to others and I make sure I don't try to control every situation, I am more easy-going and I accept that things won't always be my way, etc.

I've become a much better father. I can see that my kids have learned from it and have become more mature, responsible, and affectionate.

And surprisingly, although I am paying less attention at my work, I got promoted and my career looks good again.

And on a personal level, I've also taken care of my health, my looks, my interests, etc. I still have a long way to go and a lot of things to do but I'm definitely a better person.

But there is No Contact with W, and we will get our D in the next few months. I've been telling myself that it is over and that I need to look forward to my new life without her. Do you think I am doing the right things?

[kiro]

I wrote my last long post before reading what you wrote

[kiro]

I am so sorry. I always wonder if there is a line he could cross that would make me not want him back. I suspect this is that line. That you can see past this suggests you are a better person than I.

Thank you FlySolo for your comment. Very helpful. I don't think I am a better person than you. This is why I often have a hard time forgiving her and want to move forward. The problem is my heart doesn't always want to follow my brain

[FlySolo]

If you read this, could you give me your opinion on my Sitch?

I will certainly try. Though it will be based on my experiences only and may not always be relevant.

Both W and I are introverts and relatively shy, but I have a stronger personality than her (at least on the outside). Because we are not very outgoing, we had a quiet family life. We spent most of our time at home or with the kids. We had a group of friends who are all married with kids. We would meet with them once or twice a month usually with all the kids. And on holidays, we would usually travel or do something as a family.

So far, so normal. This is family life. Life with kids. It can be wonderful and fulfilling IF you are of the right mindset. But if you are not then it can be monotonous and dull. If you are looking at it through the lens of discontent, then what you will see is a life wasted, opportunities lost, and you will say to yourself (I am directly quoting from H) ... "This can't be my life". Superimpose feeling taking for granted. Feeling that you never do anything right (this is the child birthed by criticism) then what you have is a person who feels like they are living the wrong life. She will have put this to the side though - felt she was sacrificing herself for the sake of her children. Look at the ages of your children. She left when they were becoming independent. When they no longer needed her

In the last few years, we started doing more things as a couple because our kids were more independent. But I was always the one who put in the effort to organize these. W would just follow along.

Did you put the effort in because you wanted to do things for her or did you put the effort in because she wouldn't have gotten it right? Did she let you organise everything because 'she would just have gotten it wrong' or because she had already checked out. My H organised every holiday and I let him. He would send me options via email and I would say "I like the second one" and then he'd write back "the weather there isn't very good this time of year" so I would reply, "well the first option was nice too" and he would say "that one is really expensive" and he would go a head and book the second option. Eventually I just stopped giving my opinion and say "I'm happy with either". He accused me of not caring. That's one example - but the same could be said of every small and large decision that we have ever made. He would ask my opinion, poo poo it and then go ahead and chose the option he wanted. I would 'just follow along' because it wasn't worth the grief.

W was very dependent on me and had low self esteem. When with people, she would usually be quiet and not saying a word. I also had my insecurities and low self esteem issues, but I am not a quiet person especially when I am with people I know well.

Low self esteem is not a problem I have. Everything comes easily to me and people (in general) like me. But remember, my H's criticism did not start to effect me (i'd go into my shell for a couple of hours or on occasional days) until the 6-9 months before BD because it was relentless. So, if your W has low self esteem, and you were (in her view) constantly judging her, then she would have started to withdraw early on. Anything else would have been opening herself up to more judgement. She was protecting herself.

At home, I was controlling. I wanted everything perfect. I was uptight most of the time and became impatient when things weren't the way I wanted. I criticized her and the kids a lot. I am an emotional and impulsive person. So I could say something harsh or angry, but then I would realize what I did, and would later apologize.

Ask yourself why you felt that you needed to control things at home. What was it that you felt you were losing control of? I would hazard a guess and say when you're wife detached, you criticised her to show you were still relevant. It is a terrible cycle. I would make H feel he wasn't needed and he would walk around the house looking for things that would prove he was needed. Then he would go on and on and on about it. The more he felt not needed the more he criticised.

Later in our M, I continued to work hard, but I wasn't as successful as I was when we first got married. I was still making good money and wasn't making any progress in my career.

See note above re controlling behaviour and finding the cause of it.

Because of my insecurities, I was self absorbed and couldn't relate enough to other people's feelings. So I didn't realize that my harsh words could hurt others. I also didn't know how to hide my negative feelings. When I saw something I didn't like, even if I didn't say anything, it would immediately show in my body language and my tone. I was also lazy (and selfish) and so I didn't put enough effort to help her or to do things for her. I later realized that her Love Language was exactly that: Doing things for her. My Love Language on the other hand was spending quality time together and communicating verbally.

Wow - and you say I have courage and honesty. As someone who was criticised ALOT all I can say is that even if you didn't say it she knew. My H would pull a face and then snigger as he turned away. I would pretend not to notice but it was being banked somewhere in the recesses of my mind. Another brick on the wall I was building.

Then, the last couple of years before BD, she started taking care of herself more. She made new girl friends who were more assertive. She started being more active in the community and at work. She went to the gym more often and then joined a cycling team and participated in a challenging cycling event. Then she decided to focus on her career and also started a Masters degree. So she started gaining more confidence in herself and becoming more independent.

Women, particularly SAHMs feel the loss of their children as they gain more independence. I am not a SAHM and I can sense my children needing me less. There is, I guess both a sense of grief and a sense of freedom. She will have needed to fill that space. I guess that as she found ways to fill the void she started to find herself. The juxtaposition of her new found independence and feelings of inadequacy/loneliness in the home probably fed her desire to spend more time outside the home. My H said many times between BD and MO that he preferred being away then at home. He couldn't articulate why but I guess that it was because outside the home he didn't have to deal with the [censored]. He didn't have to deal with me being silent or feel inadequate and unloved. It was't always like that. Even towards the end we could be loving - but the silence is all he saw.

How did you react to this? I know that in the year before BD I had got my mojo back sort of. The kids were now more independent and didn't need me as much. I took more care with my appearance. I started buying new clothes. I started to work more hours. I started to socialise more (not a lot, staying out for a quick drink once/twice a month). This must have been like a red rag to a bull as far as my H was concerned. He never said anything directly but I looking back he was jealous - "You can't expect [au pair] to just babysit for you" (I was normally home an hour later than usual and I always checked it was OK), "You were out AGAIN" (the one time I went out twice in one month) and the one time I came home drunk "Stop acting like you're in your 20's)/

Anyway, one thing led to another until summer of 2017, when she told me that she didn't love me anymore and wanted to leave. She left Dec 2017 one year ago. Summer 2018, she asked for D. We ended up signing a settlement agreement and we are now filing for D.

I believe that BD is like a switch. Something that has been plaguing at them (and me) for a long time and once they hit that button there is no turning back. That "I do not love you" is a killer. There is no turning back from that and she knows it. Even if it isn't true. Even if it was said in the heat of the moment or as a way to let you know how serious she is, there is no turning back - not until she learns humility and forgiveness.

There is a film 'Blue Valentine" which is about the end of a relationship. There is a scene in it where the woman turns around to her husband and says "There is nothing here for you anymore. It's all gone". I watched it years ago when D9 was one. At the time it exactly summarised how I felt. If we had had an argument at any point during the 3 months I felt that way we would not have made it to D9's second birthday. But we didn't have any argument. Instead he showered me with love.

When she left, we were still in good terms. I continued calling her the first few months, we would laugh and she would tell me what she was doing. But then, she started not answering my calls and going No Contact around Feb 2018. Then, in March, I also went No Contact. And this is how it has been since.

It is what she needs to heal. You need to let her. You say you were on good terms and you have not mentioned a third party (at the time of BD). My view is it hurt her to speak to you. They are not all monsters. Sometimes they think by distancing themselves that they are doing the best thing for everyone. You say her go to response is emotional detachment. Then this is more of that. She is protecting herself from further pain. She also thinks she is protecting you. This doesn't mean she wants to come back.

Since BD, I have been trying to take care of myself and my kids. I have improved myself drastically since then. I've become much more empathetic to everyone, I control my temper, I stopped sarcasm completely, I don't criticize my kids or anyone, I compliment others, I listen to others and I make sure I don't try to control every situation, I am more easy-going and I accept that things won't always be my way, etc. I've become a much better father. I can see that my kids have learned from it and have become more mature, responsible, and affectionate.

And surprisingly, although I am paying less attention at my work, I got promoted and my career looks good again.

And on a personal level, I've also taken care of my health, my looks, my interests, etc. I still have a long way to go and a lot of things to do but I'm definitely a better person.

This is all brilliant. This is where it is at. ^^^^^

But there is No Contact with W, and we will get our D in the next few months. I've been telling myself that it is over and that I need to look forward to my new life without her. Do you think I am doing the right things?

You cannot change her. You cannot nice her into wanting you back. Live your life fully. It sounds like already are.

I do get the sense that you want to break the NC. I can't tell you whether you should or you shouldn't. Only you can do that. If you do, I would do so with no expectations and no pressure. Maybe next time you have a text exchange on something important, drop in a personal note "I hope you are well" or "so and so says Hi". Nothing sentimental. Nothing overly nuanced. Casual.

[kiro]

Thank you so much FS for all your comments. I have read it more than once and I need to process all that information. It is definitely helpful for me to better understand and to forgive.

you have not mentioned a third party (at the time of BD).

The fact that I didn't mention it doesn't mean that there was no A. She was (is) definitely WW. I just don't know if the EA evolved into PA. I suspect that it did given the way she was behaving for the 12 months following BD, but I have no proof and I never tried to find out.



On a separate note, yesterday I was feeling confused after all the exchanges I had on several threads. I was becoming too soft again and focusing too much on her instead of on myself. I prayed for God to help me get over this feeling of being vulnerable and dependent on her again.

Then, suddenly out of the blue, I receive a long text message from her around 10pm. The message started Ok. She was asking me about some paperwork due to send to the lawyer for our joint filing for D. Then, for no reason, she started attacking me and threatening me that she could cancel the settlement agreement we signed, get her own lawyer and take me to court. She started claiming that she had been too kind and generous during mediation and that she did me a favour by giving up too many of her legal rights. She listed all the extra money that she could ask. Then, she ended with another threat that if I don't send her certain papers within a day and that if the filing is not completed by the end of the month, she will go to court.

I know this is all b.s. She didn't give up any of her rights. I asked her very clearly at the end of mediation whether the deal was fair for her, and she explicitly said Yes in front of the mediator.

Anyway, I ignored all the threats yesterday and just replied with a short message telling her to send the papers to the lawyer and schedule an appointment.

The timing of her message was perfect, almost an answer to my prayer. It woke me up from my confusion and served as a reminder that she is not the woman I (thought I) knew in the past. She is definitely not out of her crisis and is still a "monster" that I would never want to be with.

This morning, I sent her a long message. Here is a summarized version of my message:

"I don't want to receive such threatening messages anymore. I consider this intimidation and harassment. I could send you an official warning letter from a lawyer if you continue"

"Stop playing this victim role. I don't owe you anything more than what we agree on. If you decided not to speak up or to give up anything during mediation, that's your problem."

"I have moved on with my life and don't need to deal with your emotional and personal issues anymore."

"If you decided to give up any your rights out of generosity (which I don't think you did), keep it to yourself. Generous and kind people don't go on bragging about their generosity."

"If you want to be truly kind, then chill out, trust and open up the communication for everyone's benefit, especially the kids."

"If you want to show me an act of kindness or generosity, do it outside this legal settlement. Send me a gift, a postal card or a nice word, but don't mix personal acts with legal settlement please."



She just replied that we have a deal and a smiley.

[FlySolo]

I will reply more fully later ... I have a house to clean ...

Just a quick note (and others familiar with my thread will know this).

I [censored] hate emoji's in texts from my H.

It is like they can't even bother with a proper emotion. I find it insulting. Only from him though. I don't mind from anyone else.

Your W is spinning. Her fantasy life is starting to show cracks and she is hitting out at you. Pay it no mind. Keep doing you.

[kiro]

I [censored] hate emoji's in texts from my H.

It is like they can't even bother with a proper emotion. I find it insulting.

I agree. I never know what the smiley means. I think it's her way of softening the tone after her aggressive message, but who knows?!