another day, another thread, another burned

[Twofeet]

B & LH,

I think I have also seen stats that say if one or both S are unhappy and they just hang out and don't D that they will likely be happy with the MR a couple years down the road. Going along with LH if you remember that Athol Kay vid in my thread he said in his experience when the couple splits usually they dont recon because the LBS moves on and the WAS realized the grass was greener back home. Whether the WAS attempts the recon or not I don't remember if Mr. Kay went into that much detail.

[burned]

LH, thanks. I get what you meant now. It's more about the early-stage sitches. I was already past that when I got here.

TF, I watched that video a week or two ago when you first posted it, and I watched it multiple times just to sort of remind myself and stay calm. Also another good one by Jocko Willink where he says, "Move on." Athol Kay didn't address whether the WAS attempts to recon, but he said that it helps if the OM turns out to be a bad partner. So is it a bad thing if she establishes a more permanent relationship with OM? Won't it "flame out" one way or another? I sure hope so.

I don't think behavioral science will ever really explain this stuff to anyone's satisfaction. Too many gol-durn variables. And then you get the occasional unicorn like Joe2017 that messes with everyone's logic (no offense meant, Joe, and good job). AS is the one around here who says that "most" WASes attempt recon. I tend to lean in that direction, since I suspect there's something about people who end up here, and their WASes, that is different from the typical person off the street. So if they say that 10% of people remarry after D, but maybe 20% of people around here? No idea.

As you can see, it still all boils down to "What will happen to me." Which pretty much can't be known.

[Phoenix9]

I don't think behavioral science will ever really explain this stuff to anyone's satisfaction. Too many gol-durn variables. And then you get the occasional unicorn like Joe2017 that messes with everyone's logic (no offense meant, Joe, and good job). AS is the one around here who says that "most" WASes attempt recon. I tend to lean in that direction, since I suspect there's something about people who end up here, and their WASes, that is different from the typical person off the street. So if they say that 10% of people remarry after D, but maybe 20% of people around here? No idea.

As you can see, it still all boils down to "What will happen to me." Which pretty much can't be known.

B,

AS gave me a fantastic response:

Link

Let us know when you read it and we'll continue the discussion.

[SoTorn]

I have had the opportunity to speak with several previous WS. Recently, I got to discuss my situation with someone who was a WH. This guy was M for 9 years and ended up having a PA with another woman for two years which ultimately ended up in the OW getting pregnant.

WH said his BS fought for him, begged and plead to get him back and that he just walked away, left her. He said that they separated for a year and at about 1.5 years the BS filed for D.

He said that around the 1 year mark since BD, he noticed that BS was happy, looked great and was doing perfectly fine without him. He said that since that 1 year mark, he has been trying to get her back and that she has moved on and will not take him back. He is not M again, and is now single again and says that for the last three years, he has been trying to get his ex wife back and that he feels extremely bad about what he did to her and that he still loves her and would do anything for her to accept him back.

My FIL was a WH, left and M his AP. So my step MIL was an OW. She is aware of my situation. My OW told me that I need to let my WW go, that i am a good man, that her and my FIL both respect me as a good father, husband and SIL. I told my SMIL that my love for my WW has diminished significantly and that I am doing my best to focus on myself and move on.

SMIL told me that just like my FIL, my WW will absolutely come to regret what she has diminished with her actions, which is my love.

I have spoken with probably dozens of BS and WS and in every single situation, the WS has regretted the destruction they caused and wanted to get back with the BS. In about 30% of the people I have spoken with the BS accepted the WS back and the rest of them moved on and even though the WS tried to get back with them they wouldnt let it happen.

I just spoke with another BS today, a woman on my team who said that her EXWH, who she D 7 years ago is still trying to get her back.

[burned]

(Edit: this was in response to pain18 ^^^)

Haha, yeah, I remember reading that when he first posted it. I felt bad for you for the way people were smacking you around but I think you needed it. :P

This discussion always leads to nowhere. Yet I always feel compelled to rehash it every month or two. Why, I don't know. Trying to gain a sense of control. Like what Accuray has posted that LH reposted somewhere on my thread about the poison water. How wanting W back isn't about W but about a sense of control when things are all wacky. Etc. I'm sure it's all in R2C's quotes thread.

I'll always believe what AS says. Why? Because since I have know way of knowing who's right and who's wrong, I'll choose the person who says the things I want to hear. But I won't reject what others say, too. So tonight this is my attitude: reality is reality and, for me at least, D is the most likely outcome. And I'm going to live my life as if it's about to happen and will. And I'll sort of titrate my emotions by selectively believing certain half-truths. At any point during the process I'm open to happy surprises. After D I will continue to tell myself, "It's OK, it ain't over till it's over," until that mindset no longer serves its purpose in helping me get through the day. All the while I'll be doing whatever I feel like.

For example, today I sat around all day reading. Nobody made me feel guilty that I didn't clean something or do something productive. I didn't feel on edge when she looked at me a certain way or sighed in that way that she used to sigh. Then I took a shower and put on the socks her mother gave me. Because I can. Because I choose to continue to love her despite everything, but I choose not to let that love interfere with my life as it is now. As for later, I'll deal with it when I get there.

Emotional rollercoaster? Check.

[burned]

ST, you're yet another of the people who say they've seen this play out in real life. Before I got to DB, one of the first books I read was "Rebuilding" by Fisher & Alberti. I was totally floored when I got to the part that said "the dumper (WS) frequently comes back talking about reconciliation, right around the time the dumpee (LBS) is "making it," and the most common response is for the LBS to not take them back. Why? "I'm happy even without them, and they didn't seem to have changed much." Maybe AS is actually one of the authors. He won't admit it though. :P

So this is just a trope, or a script, or a whatever, and it just plays out time and time again.

I really do think, after being here for a bit and reading a lot and listening to people, that the main reason you don't hear about so many recons is because of the LBS, not the WS.

For now I'd like to think I'm in the 30% who would be willing to give it a shot. I'll let you know if that's still true when I get to that point.

[Phoenix9]

Haha, yeah, I remember reading that when he first posted it. I felt bad for you for the way people were smacking you around but I think you needed it. :P

You practically brass knuckled me into submission a month or so ago, B .

We need them. The truth will never always be pretty and soft and sugar-coated, but it always exists. And no matter how hard we try to run away from it, hide from it, avoid it, etc. It will always catch up to us and will confront us and force us to acknowledge and deal with it.

I found that out the hard way before this whole thing went down. Coming here, I was not expecting anything less. I was going to be hit with a lot of truths. And I did get hit. I lashed out when I felt like the truth I was told was not feasible. But all it did was prolong the inevitable realities of what the situation is and what I am needing to deal with.

Now, when I do or say something derpy, I expect some tough love in the form of some ugly truths. I expect more. But I also have resigned to the fact that I need to know and work with it. I have no other choice anymore.

[Yail]

I'll always believe what AS says. Why? Because since I have no way of knowing who's right and who's wrong, I'll choose the person who says the things I want to hear.

I cracked up when I read this. I love your honesty. Not sure if you meant to be humorous, but it was great.

So tonight this is my attitude: reality is reality and, for me at least, D is the most likely outcome. And I'm going to live my life as if it's about to happen and will. And I'll sort of titrate my emotions by selectively believing certain half-truths. At any point during the process I'm open to happy surprises. After D I will continue to tell myself, "It's OK, it ain't over till it's over," until that mindset no longer serves its purpose in helping me get through the day. All the while I'll be doing whatever I feel like.

Yes, this a really great description of what my mindset is as well. Use a hopeful (but not delusional) mindset until you decide it's not needed. This was a bit of what I was trying to get at in my "denial vs hope" question on my own thread. Similar thoughts I've been rolling around in my head.

I do think the LBS has incredible power. Sure, some WAS don't physically come back and ASK for R, but is it because LBS has already so firmly shut the door? So clearly said, "Eff you" in a final and unmovable way?

The second part of this is, of course, time. It may take much longer than we have patience for. At any point we can choose to be open to R or moving on. The goal in my mind is to do so in as peaceful of a way as possible, whichever path I choose. Perhaps we "move on" and then find ourselves back to being open to R down the road. As long as we haven't slammed the door, that's also a possibility.

Burned I hope you have a Happy New Year wearing your socks while doing whatever makes you happy.

[TJT]

Well I was gonna quote the same part that Yail just did. So I'll just echo what she said, that exactly what you wrote is my mindset too. However, you're doing a much better job of keeping yourself on track than me at this point, I think!

I can tell when you post that it's difficult and you're still fighting with your feelings but you also don't let them suck you back down, at least not too far. Even if you have to force yourself to say things you may not actually be feeling at the time... I think that's great practice, burned.

For now I'd like to think I'm in the 30% who would be willing to give it a shot. I'll let you know if that's still true when I get to that point.

Same!

The goal in my mind is to do so in as peaceful of a way as possible, whichever path I choose. Perhaps we "move on" and then find ourselves back to being open to R down the road. As long as we haven't slammed the door, that's also a possibility.

I like this. Of course I'm always worried about what H is thinking and how H is perceiving what I'm doing. I need to get over that, because the bottom line is if my H and your W's are going to really want to recon, and have truly come out of "fog", then they will let us know. Anything else (not leaving OPs, regretting it but not saying anything, etc.) means they do not really want it bad enough.

Sock on, burned!!! Virtual cheers with virtual stress candles! haha. Seriously though my co-workers got me a eucalyptus spearmint stress candle from Bath and Body Works...it's not "girly" but strong on essential oils. If you have one of those stores around you (or can find something similar online or somewhere else) you might want to try it.

[burned]

Yail, it makes me happy to be honest and make people laugh, so...I’m wearing my socks and happy now. Thank you.

TJT, enjoy that eucalyptus. I do the whole essential oil ultrasonic diffuser thingy usually, but I’m at my parents place so the odor of the night is wood smoke. Loving it!

I also just heard on the radio, as I was finishing my last bit of lobster tail, that one isn’t supposed to eat lobster on New Year’s Eve because lobsters move backwards (hence the shape of the tail) which implies a reversal of fortune.

So I smiled and thought, Good! Let 2019 be the opposite of 2018 and I think I’ll be just fine. I wish the same for all of my other new cyberfriends here.

P.S. Yail, you said LBS twice too many times. :P