Milestones of Moving On (?)

[burned]

Wow Joe that ^^^ is one for the books.

I’d only add, as someone familiar with those kinds of interactions, that when a schizophrenic person eventually (and usually) emerges from their psychosis, the people they respect most and fear least are the ones who sat calmly with them and explained, over and over again, that it’s OK to be scared, but “I wasn’t sent here by the government to steal your thoughts,” for example. In other words: validate the emotions, not the misperception of reality. Act calmly and logically. Don’t blame the victim. But don’t try to understand the world from their perspective, either. Inside their mind is NOT a place you’d ever want to be.

Sure, the WS isn’t floridly psychotic, but they are somewhat out of touch with your version of reality. And I don’t consider WS syndrome to be a severe mental illness, but the metaphor might be useful.

[Joe2017]

Sure, the WS isn’t floridly psychotic, but they are somewhat out of touch with your version of reality. And I don’t consider WS syndrome to be a severe mental illness, but the metaphor might be useful.

Thanks for the clarification there. I don’t think the WS is a psychotic. I do believe that it is somehow related to a form of narcissistic personality disorder. I am in no way a psychologist or therapist, but basically all of the same traits exist between the two.

It takes a lot to knock them off of their high horse, if it is even possible. YOU are NEVER going to be able to do it. Only LIFE can do this to them. It will take them hitting rock bottom and getting dragged across the jagged surface bloody and naked before they will even have a chance of turning inwards to perform some REAL introspection. And HOPEFULLY they will see how jacked up they are, and they will seek help. The only way they can turn it around is if THEY want to.

This is why the lighthouse is so important if your goal is to have them back in your life one day. Because if they realize that you have always truly been there for them, then there is the chance that they will ask you to be part of their recovery when they are ready to change. Standing up a lighthouse for them is 100% faith-based. There are absolutely no guarantees that it will ever change anything, but you do it out of love. It may end up being unrequited, or it may take a year, two years, ten years, or more. By then you might not even want them in your life anymore. But for me, it was my final act of love in tribute to our marriage.

[burned]

I fear that many of them won’t ever “come out of it” because they don’t see themselves as being IN anything. Typical person with NPD has such low self esteem that they have to blame anything that goes wrong in their life on OTHERS. To blame themselves would be too hard. In my case, many of the older and wiser people who know W and me think that she has ALWAYS been that way and will never change. Bad news for Burned. Because that also means that when they’re dragged across the jagged surface, they’ll blame you for dropping them on the surface, they’ll blame OM for dragging them across it, and they’ll curse the gods for having made the surface jagged. Oh well, she says, time to keep searching for “the one” who won’t let me drop myself onto a jagged surface. When all along it was Burned who wanted so much to protect her from that. But he was controlling and needy. Sigh...

(Sorry for the hijack, TJT, but hopefully some of that resonates regarding you and H?)

[TJT]

Thank you all SO so much for responding and adding your thoughts. No apologies needed for "hijacking". I insert my sitch into my replies to y'all all the time... I think it's helpful to share perspectives.

In other words: validate the emotions, not the misperception of reality. Act calmly and logically.

I've been reading about how to validate so that I know how to do it if/when H were to approach me. Right now the hard part is that I don't even have the opportunity. H is not contacting me, and I am not contacting him (unless I have to ask about his portions of bills). He is not being much of an archnemesis to me, at least not actively in my specific direction. It's more passive / indirect as he keeps living his life with OW.

One thing my MIL did say to me was once a while back she mentioned she had talked to me, and H asked her "You still talk to her?" I was flabbergasted by this... like, H not only has made the decision to basically forget about me, but he also thinks it would be normal for everyone else to just wipe me from their slates too?! I can see how that may have been more of a self-protecting comment than anything (realizing that my MIL has the ability to continue sharing info with me) but it's still just really stupid.

At any rate, this is one reason why I am not posting anything on SM, as much as I want to post my own memes about pain and hurt and commitment and to tell everyone I know. I need to be level-headed and ensure others' perception of me is level-headed, and just go through my own process.

This is why the lighthouse is so important if your goal is to have them back in your life one day. Because if they realize that you have always truly been there for them, then there is the chance that they will ask you to be part of their recovery when they are ready to change. Standing up a lighthouse for them is 100% faith-based. There are absolutely no guarantees that it will ever change anything, but you do it out of love.

This combined with what I said in response to burned above are the two hardest things for me to reconcile. As I've discussed here before, I want to be the lighthouse but how does he even know I'm the lighthouse if we pretty much ZERO interaction? IF he "comes out of it", and I haven't done anything while he's been "in it", then it seems he will have nothing to go on (aside from maybe the stuff I said to him before he actually moved out, about how I didn't want this and would be willing to work on the M with him). And even if I've said stuff before, how would he know I haven't changed my mind?

This was also why filing is so terrifying for me. I don't see filing as being much of a "lighthouse". I just got the confirmation back today that the court accepted the petition so it's now officially a "case"... I'm kind of freaking out. I feel terrible because I don't really want to be D and now there's this very real record of me filing, and I am afraid H would see that as the equivalent of me smashing out the light in the lighthouse (yes, even though he is the one living with OW and doing god knows what).

My plan now is basically to just let it sit for a while... I don't have to serve him right away, and ultimately if I never let him know about it, it could get dismissed without any "approval" needed from either of us (or I could definitely ask for it to be dismissed if I wanted to) and I'd just have to start over if I want to do it again later. I also learned that apparently if he does file AND serve me (or otherwise let me know about it so I can answer), his petition will trump mine if I've never let him know about it, even if mine was earlier.

So, having this formally "in the system" gives me an option to drop it on him a little more quickly if I feel like I really need to or want to. Other than that I may have just spent $400 only to accomplish nothing if I chicken out and can't bring myself to move it forward before the court dismisses it, OR if H does in fact decide to file on his own (I've tried to look up the time frame for dismissal and apparently it varies, so I'm not quite sure how long I have but I know they should let me know when it's coming up).

Oh well, she says, time to keep searching for “the one” who won’t let me drop myself onto a jagged surface. When all along it was Burned who wanted so much to protect her from that.

Yeah. This is the hopelessness I feel AND why I think I have a feeling of guilt. Back to that whole acknowledging there are things I could have done better and if that could have changed anything.

But as we can see in my posts of messages he had sent me quite close to BD... and to the point DV made in her post.. clearly what we had was real and he DID still love me despite the things he said led to him wanting to get a divorce. My H did say during that same convo that he was conflicted... that he knew what he wanted to do but also didn't know.

There lies the mystery - was he conflicted out of self-preservation and not wanting to look like the bad guy, but knew in his heart he really didn't want to be with me anymore? Or was he conflicted because he knew he wanted to be with OW but he ALSO knew that deep down, even though he claimed to not be IN love anymore, that he may not be making the right decision? Joe, I fully submit to your response that I will NOT ever be able to understand it. I think what I'm not bought into yet is that it doesn't matter. I feel like "if only" I could understand, it would matter, because then I feel like I'd have my answer as to whether H is just an A-hole or if I should hold on and wait for the H I think exists to come back..

There needs to be a way to gauge the level of pain this all causes. We all need to get hooked up to a brain scanner so this can be measured. It's pure torture and as much as I know we all have faith that we'll come out the other side, I definitely believe it will be with a major emotional limp that I'll be living with the rest of my life, if not worse.

Ughhh I feel like I am emotionally regressing so hard right now and going back to denial that my H would really do this to me or that it's possible he won't come back. The more I try to move on, the worse my yearning for him seems to get!!

In other news, I got up this morning, albeit super late, and got dressed and put makeup on. Still have zero other plans for the day, aside from maybe tidying up the house a little to keep myself busy. I would like to go out to eat at least but I don't have anyone to really go with (I can try my mom I guess but she doesn't like the restaurant I want to go to, grr) plus I'm now pretty much broke for another week. That's the other hard part about this, at least if I wasn't stuck with this massive mortgage on my own I'd have a little more money to do things for myself. But I'm both emotionally and financially barreeelly making it. It's pretty terrible feeling like you're on your last leg every day and might fall over dead at any moment.

[burned]

Marathon. You've had a rough couple of days but it won't be like this forever.

Right now the hard part is that I don't even have the opportunity. H is not contacting me, and I am not contacting him (unless I have to ask about his portions of bills).

Ah, I know that feeling. But trust that YOU are doing the right thing, because YOU are validating him by not contacting him. Yail had to remind me of something I said myself MONTHS ago, which is that detachment is the ultimate validation. They want space, you give them space. That action speaks much louder than words. I don't think it goes unnoticed, either.

H not only has made the decision to basically forget about me, but he also thinks it would be normal for everyone else to just wipe me from their slates too?! ... I need to be level-headed

Yup, so actively fight the urge to put any stock into anything spoken or done by anyone biologically related to the alien who ate your H.

I want to be the lighthouse but how does he even know I'm the lighthouse if we pretty much ZERO interaction? IF he "comes out of it", and I haven't done anything while he's been "in it", then it seems he will have nothing to go on (aside from maybe the stuff I said to him before he actually moved out, about how I didn't want this and would be willing to work on the M with him). And even if I've said stuff before, how would he know I haven't changed my mind?

Ah, the perennial fear that you and I both share. I've coped with this by telling myself that a) they aren't floridly psychotic (see above) and therefore they aren't SO out of touch with reality that they don't notice when adults act like loving adults. They're just emotionally irrational right now (more about that below). Plus he has known you for 9 years. He knows what makes you tick. Therefore:

I don't see filing as being much of a "lighthouse". ... I am afraid H would see that as the equivalent of me smashing out the light in the lighthouse

Smash that stupid light. He's sailing the other way right now. The light tells him that the land is still there. What happens when he's 10 miles out and you're past the horizon? He can still see the light. So the land is still there. In dark enough seas, he'll see that light for a long time, and he won't worry about it until it's so dim that he can't measurably detect its presence. So smash that lightbulb! Lightbulbs can be replaced. Or you can build a fire. Or maybe they make awesome lasers or something that you could put there, later, when you see his ship off in the distance by the dim light of the moon, slowly making its way toward you...

My plan now is basically to just let it sit for a while...

Good. That's for you. Like jumping into ice water after a sauna. You feel great once you adjust, and you know that it's not cold enough to kill you unless you stay in it for something crazy like 7 minutes.

So, having this formally "in the system" gives me an option to drop it on him a little more quickly if I feel like I really need to or want to.

"Speak softly, and carry a big stick."

There lies the mystery - was he conflicted out of self-preservation and not wanting to look like the bad guy, but knew in his heart he really didn't want to be with me anymore? Or was he conflicted because he knew he wanted to be with OW but he ALSO knew that deep down, even though he claimed to not be IN love anymore, that he may not be making the right decision?

What I've been able to figure out about this is that a) she/he wanted both AND b) she/he didn't know what she/he wanted. Emotions don't operate according to logic.

It's pure torture and as much as I know we all have faith that we'll come out the other side, I definitely believe it will be with a major emotional limp that I'll be living with the rest of my life, if not worse.

I know that feeling, too. Almost like they stole our faith in humanity. (The older/wiser people here tell me that it's not worth worrying about, that that, too, will improve.) Maybe instead of a limp it'll be more like a scar that someone finds cute. That's a metaphor obviously. Somehow I think once we heal, our "love mechanism" (you can see it on the brain scanner!) will start working again, just as well if not better than before.

Ughhh I feel like I am emotionally regressing so hard right now and going back to denial that my H would really do this to me or that it's possible he won't come back. The more I try to move on, the worse my yearning for him seems to get!!

From anger to depression in one sentence. That's rough. Remember that denial is a protective strategy. It's not either-or. Sure, it's not a sustainable long-term solution, but use it to your advantage while it's there. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Denial is the blindfold so that you think you're eating beef. Once you're done with the meal, you don't need the blindfold.

In other news, I got up this morning, albeit super late, and got dressed and put makeup on. Still have zero other plans for the day, aside from maybe tidying up the house a little to keep myself busy. I would like to go out to eat at least but I don't have anyone to really go with (I can try my mom I guess but she doesn't like the restaurant I want to go to, grr) plus I'm now pretty much broke for another week. That's the other hard part about this, at least if I wasn't stuck with this massive mortgage on my own I'd have a little more money to do things for myself. But I'm both emotionally and financially barreeelly making it. It's pretty terrible feeling like you're on your last leg every day and might fall over dead at any moment.

I hope you feel better soon. 2019 will be a better year. It has to be. It's the year you will start saying things like:

"I am awesome, and it's really H's loss that he doesn't get to be with me."

OK, that last quote wasn't really by TJT. Or was it, hmm?

[Joe2017]

Of course it matters, but not in the way we think of when we're going through it. We think that if we leave no stone unturned, if we analyze and examine every detail, if we figure out what went WRONG we could somehow fix things. But that's just not the case. We can't do that because we have no control over our spouses. They did these things to us because THEY WANTED to. That's one of the hardest parts to accept. They made the decision to hurt us in a way that nobody else in the entire world EVER could.

So how does it matter? It matters now within the context of self development. We only have ourselves right now. It matters because it's part of your history that is making you a stronger woman in the future.

You are regressing a little. That's OK. Pick back up tomorrow. Today you can take in all the feels. Let yourself experience sadness today, but tomorrow push onwards. Don't wallow for too long!

If you don't work out right now, I highly suggest it. HIGHLY. Doesn't matter if it's the gym, a kickboxing class, yoga, running, a boot camp, or karate. Hell, go for LONG ASS WALKS. Whatever! Physical activity is extremely important for you right now. Strongly recommended!!!!!!

Thumbs up! Keep pushing forward.

[TJT]

I’m going to reply to you both later but wanted you to know I read your posts just now. You guys are amazing and I’m glad I have this forum at least to know people like you exist!

Right now... I’m trying to do a little shopping with gift card money from my mom. Not totally into it but I realized I should get out. And before I go home I’m going to order from my fav Mexican restaurant to go, so there. If only I could get the margaritas to go! Not to worry, there’s Patron in the freezer. Whiccccccch I know I should not drink so I probably won’t anyway. Sad.

Joe, real quick I do take the dog for many more walks than I used to and I started yoga with this sitch but haven’t gone since the holidays started. I also used to run but stopped because knees don’t like it. Kickboxing is my fav but I got a shoulder issue doing it that I’m working on resolving bc I miss it terribly. So for now... walks, yoga, light dumbbells and donkey kicks! Agreeably I need to do a LOT more there.

Also I plan to re-summarize my sitch later given everything that’s occurred since it started. Will make it easier for those of you who are new to it vs trying to read all my super long posts.

[burned]

They did these things to us because THEY WANTED to. That's one of the hardest parts to accept. They made the decision to hurt us in a way that nobody else in the entire world EVER could.

Another hijack maybe, but Joe, that thought process is something I've been working on REALLY HARD in IC and just with myself. If she comes back, I'll need to remember that she was doing what she felt was right at the time. If she doesn't, I'll have to let go of the idea that another person's actions are always chosen based on how they won't or won't affect me. Vapo kindly called me out about that using the term "egocentric." When we're hurt, it's impossible not to be. But in the process of healing it's something that we are probably better off letting go.

Just because vicariously I really want to see you be successful.

You too, TJT.

Edit. Donkey kicks sounds like the most jankity of all exercises. Did I use the term correctly? :P

[TJT]

Marathon. You've had a rough couple of days but it won't be like this forever.

I hate marathons and I'm tenacious as they come, but also impatient.. a point Yail hit on on your thread a bit ago, too. I'm starting to think I don't have it in me to come out of this without turning crazy and saying F it, I'm going to show up at their door and let it loose! hah.

Like Beyonce said: "What's worse, looking jealous or crazy, jealous and crazy? Oh I like being walked all over lately, I'd rather be crazy."

Then there's also that song about Sandcastles but DO NOT LISTEN TO THAT.

You feel great once you adjust, and you know that it's not cold enough to kill you unless you stay in it for something crazy like 7 minutes.

I'm definitely gonna have to figure out what the "crazy" length of time is relative to this. 6 months? 1 year? I know nobody knows.

Almost like they stole our faith in humanity. (The older/wiser people here tell me that it's not worth worrying about, that that, too, will improve.)

EXACTLY like they stole our faith in humanity. And ourselves. And everything. I do believe time will make this better and there are other things in the past I can look back on to prove it. But I've never been hurt this badly before and I don't think anyone should EVER have to hut this badly. It aint right!!

Denial is the blindfold so that you think you're eating beef. Once you're done with the meal, you don't need the blindfold.

I think I get what you mean by this but could you explain a little more, burned? Is it like, giving myself false hope by denying the truth is just to protect myself emotionally until I can actually handle/accept the truth fully?

2019 will be a better year. It has to be.

I really cannot determine how to think of 2019. I really wish I could just fast forward through the year, if I'm honest, just so I can know. It's so sad that I would trade a year (or maybe even two!) of living my life just to see where H will be at in that time. It's not that I'm not looking forward to things, and I know I NEED that time to learn more about what life should be for me. IIIIII justthinkIcouldalsodothatwithsomeonebymysideandnotalone.

Yail had to remind me of something I said myself MONTHS ago, which is that detachment is the ultimate validation. They want space, you give them space. That action speaks much louder than words. I don't think it goes unnoticed, either.

This is a good one...I just hope you guys are right I don't want to be this strong and actually give H his space and it turns out to be the best thing that ever happened to him. Yes I want him to be happy but I'm still in the place you were a while back, burned, where I think I could still be the one to do that and he just doesn't know exactly how much loyalty and commitment he's giving up!

I fear that many of them won’t ever “come out of it” because they don’t see themselves as being IN anything.

(Sorry for the hijack, TJT, but hopefully some of that resonates regarding you and H?)

Yes, exactly. Essentially for me, this is that argument of "Is this really MLC or is H just an A-hole that hid it really well and/or used me for 9 years?"

I guess I'll just have to hear him out to see what perspective he's gained if/when that time comes!

If she comes back, I'll need to remember that she was doing what she felt was right at the time. If she doesn't, I'll have to let go of the idea that another person's actions are always chosen based on how they won't or won't affect me.

This is a helpful and a great explanation for why we can consider taking back someone who does these things. While it seems obvious that their actions are hurtful to us, and that they knew that, it doesn't mean they did it maliciously as part of a grand scheme to make our lives hell. It's not an excuse for the behavior, but it's a reason.

Thanks for the encouragement yet again, burned... I do feel like I'm an awesome person but I feel like I wasn't able to prove that to H, and I have had a lot of guilt lately about things I DID do wrong. The mind is a crazy thing because I remember there being times where I questioned whether he was the one for me, and admittedly getting a little too comfortable and maybe not keeping everything "light and happy", instead expecting him to change certain things in order for me to be happy. Not that I wasn't trying, because I've got countless examples of that...but now that he's gone (and now that I understand more about the dynamics of these things) I wish I hadn't let the gaps in what he was giving ME affect me so much. Clearly I was willing to accept those things and stay committed to the M, in any case, and I did still feel happy, not "stuck"...

We think that if we leave no stone unturned, if we analyze and examine every detail, if we figure out what went WRONG we could somehow fix things. But that's just not the case.

This is why I don't want to be too hard on myself either, because at the end of the day I need - and deserve - support and commitment and forgiveness and understanding and alllllll of the things, too. I feel like H expected me to be there all smiles and rainbows when he was having a hard time, or to praise him like the lord any time he did something nice for me... but did not understand or empathize with the things I may have been struggling with in order to "forgive" me or at least give me grace if I was being less than a stellar wife at all times.

For sure if we ever recon, there will need to be a mega solid approach to understanding our behaviors under stress and what we each need from each other to feel supported. Just one of those things I wish we could keep building on together and not with other people... like a recent quote I found said: "Don't let outsiders destroy what took years for you to build." The bottom line is he (and OW) just don't know what those things are that they're not good at yet. But obviously I'M living in a fantasy land if I believe they will never surface. They undoubtedly will.

Also reminds me of a letter H wrote me early on saying how happy he was that we do seem to be able to work through any issues we have, and how important that was to him. *slaps self* *looks forward*

Don't wallow for too long!

I'm really trying not to but you guys are both right that I've been having a bad few days. Even going out earlier made me more sad than usual. Literally EVERYTHING was reminding me of H and I even saw two decorative items side by side where one was H's initial and the other (a completely separate item) said "memories". I mean WTF, thanks universe.

Then with the new year, I feel all this pressure to make it a better year and I'm just afraid it won't be. Also, me and H's dating anniversary (before we got married) used to be New Year's, because I vividly remember that the first time we spent New Year's together was the night I really felt in love with him, after probably 6 months of seeing each other (yeah, it took a while, which is why this hurts that much more to lose it). And now of course I wonder if H and OW are having some super romantic "2019 is the start of OUR new life" celebration. Puke.

BUT...I'm gonna try. I really, really am. And, it's weird, and probably just coincidence but also interesting to note, that tonight the sunset was like BLAZING color. It's been gloomy all week and all day, but the sunset was fire.

"Barn's burned down now / I can see the moon" - Mizuta Masahide

I think I'm gonna do another post with some inspirational stuff I've been saving for a while, both for myself and for some of you who are following

[TJT]

Edit. Donkey kicks sounds like the most jankity of all exercises. Did I use the term correctly? :P

Forgot to address this, but I don't think I can answer lol! Because technically that was correct usage of Joe's rendition of janky, it being an adjective and all. But it also depends how you actually feel about donkey kicks... and IMO they are a great exercise without any equipment needed (but can definitely be complemented with resistance) - so no, not jankity! I hope you've looked them up if you don't know what they are!