What I learned from Wife's MLC- Part2

[burned]

In some social sciences, you can predict the probability of certain outcomes at a macro level (for a large sample of people). But I haven’t even seen any such statistics for WAS/MLC.

There just isn't enough time, money, or demand to support this kind of research. Various agencies collect "vital statistics" but very few people spend the time to find a representative sample of people and ask them all of these questions. It's why I trust the people around here who sit and watch and post, over years and years. They don't have hard numbers but they have accumulated wisdom, which is about the best you can do in this area.

[SoTorn]

Yep, just focus on ourselves. Good thing is that the rest of my family has told me that they notice my positive changes.

[paco123]

Kiro, I agree that much good can be served by a systematic, formal study on the whys and wherefores of relationships and life's passages. I just read Flysolo's post, who noted something another female friend of mine (oddly enough, also from the UK, like FS) also observed: increasingly, her friends of a certain age are separating.

So, I would want to throw in three other variables into the mix:
(1) the influence of more career options;
(2) the effects of hormones, particularly estrogen, in an aging body; and
(3) the increased awareness of the issues related to #MeToo.

Perhaps these all serve as part of the backdrop against which each of our particularized LBS crisis is being played.

[kiro]

Paco
I totally agree. I am noticing a lot of changes in couples of this certain age. Even those who stay together don’t seem happy as they used to. I’m observing it, but I also hear it from female friends. My sister was telling me about many of her friends who have this dissatisfied feeling although they have a great life with everything any woman can dream of.

Some people remain married but become miserable during this difficult stage of life. And this crisis/transition doesn’t hit women only. I personally have had a fair share of this even before my W. and I see my male friends also struggle.

What I’m trying to say is that since BD, LBS’s have this illusion/fantasy that we would have been happy if our Ws hadn’t decided to leave. But in reality, if they hadn’t left, they would have gone through the same crisis and would have made our lives miserable. And since MLC takes many years, this misery would have lasted a very long time.

And who knows? Maybe if they had never left, they would have carried this dissatisfaction for all their lives and would have blamed us (without revealing it) for missing out on a better life they could have had without us or with someone else (‘the grass is greener’ illusion).

This is why LBS shouldn’t rush the process. If the WAS/MLCer comes back too early, they wouldn’t have healed and most probably wouldn’t have taken any responsability for their emotional issues. They wouldn’t be ready to work on themselves and on the M.

There seems to be 2 factors in play during MLC:
1. Emotional maturity/growth:
1a/ Some people are emotionally mature and navigate middle age transition without any crisis.
1b/ Others have unresolved issues and struggle.

2. Our values regarding M and commitment:
2a/ Some people would never leave a M because of their beliefs (religious, cultural, family tradition...). They have a conservative approach to M. They’d rather be miserably married than attempt a separation/D.
2b/ Others don’t have such inhibitions and fears about separation/D. They have more liberal values regarding M and D. Often, they’ve witnessed their parents divorce and/or have many separated friends.

There are mainly 3 combinations of these 2 variables:
1- Someone who is 1a would go through the middle ages without any major crisis.
2- Someone who is 1b and 1a would struggle but will have strong beliefs/values to protect their M.
3- A true WAS clearly fits 1b and 2b. IMO, if someone is 2b, he/she will always be susceptible to leave again. This is why Reconciliation is difficult if it is rushed before the WAS has tackled and resolved their emtional issues.

I think some WAS’s fall in a category between 2a and 2b (maybe Paco’s W falls in this category. My W, on the other hand, is a clear 2b. She had no issue leaving and then initiating D). Some WAS’s are much more hesitant. The trap that some LBS’s fall into is trying to take advantage of this hesitation and not following the DBing approaches. They continue to initiate contact, don’t detach, don’t give space...

In some cases, it could “work” and the WAS will return home. But don’t be fooled. If you have pressured them or influenced their decision, you’re in for a very bumpy ride. This wouldn’t be true ‘piecing’ because they haven’t truly made up their mind to commit to the M. And they’d be vulnerable to another A or another BD.

Unfortunately, when our S has considered separation once, they can consider it again. Give them time and space to figure it out.

[paco123]

This is quite, quite helpful, Kiro (although I had to resist pulling out my ruler and graph paper to chart out the maturity and values axes and to plot points 1a, 1b, 2a, and 2b).

I suggest that, over a lifetime, these categories are neither static nor mutually exclusive. At various points in life, we are sometimes more 1a than 1b, or more mindful of 2b than 2a.

Which leads to my corollary: Perhaps at the moment, W is beset by 1b and is therefore leaning towards 2b. Perhaps this is ephemeral (which moments are, by definition).

More than anything, more than reconciliation, I want W to be whole. To become whole, as you put it, W needs space. To provide W that space, I need to dig deep, deep and find myself a whole lot of 1a and 2a.

[kiro]

Lol I like to put everything in categories. It’s due to my technical background.

[FlySolo]

Lifted from my thread ...

What is curious, however, is that your description of how you acted when you were hurt during the M resembles how my W acted as well. Yet, in my case, she is the one who left. I always assumed that her way to become "emotionally detached" and close off (to use your own terms) is what changed her feelings toward me.

My H is a very suspicious and controlling person. He needs to be in control of everything and everyone around him. He is a man who 'sweats the little things'. At first this didn't bother me. We balanced each other out. I could bring him down from whatever was causing him anxiety that day (taking a wrong turn on the highway, being late for a childrens birthday party), and he, for want of a better phrase, grounded me (I would forget my own head if it wasn't screwed on). But over the years, his need for everything to be 'perfect' and to allocate blame when it wasn't became more and more directed at me until eventually, in order to protect myself, it just all became white noise. So constant, I stopped hearing it. This is what he saw as emotional detachment and it caused the criticism and the blame to get worse and worse. I dreaded whenever I knew he was coming home from a trip because it meant there would be something that I would be blamed for when I got home. So, I would walk in the door already with my defence mechanism up -> cold and detached. I dreaded any conversation I had with him because I knew it would end with my not having taken he garbage out, or leaving a window open, or forgetting to iron one of the children's PE shirts. So, I stopped having conversations.

The BD was precipitated by me. In the six-nine months preceding BD he became more controlling and more critical and I became more closed off. I told him I had had enough and that we should think about separating. Was I ready to walk out ... no. If I am honest with myself, I really just wanted to scare him into wanting to work on us.

Would the BD have happened even if I had not been the catalyst? Yes. Because we were making each other miserable and it had to happen. This realisation has taken the longest to come to terms with because it has been so painful and it is in our nature to create narratives that protect us from the pain. I am going to write it again for emphasis.

WE WERE MAKING EACH OTHER MISERABLE and something had to give.

Can our MR still be saved? Yes. But it will be a long and painful road back and it will require humility, understanding and forgiveness. Forgiveness and understanding I have, humility I am still working on. My H is still in the fog and even if he comes out, humility is never something he has been good at.

Sorry - if that hijacks your thread. Im not sure if there are similarities with your sitch. Please take what is useful and ignore the rest.

Much love
FS

[kiro]

Thank you so much FlySolo.

It is very helpful. You are not hijacking my thread. You are actually helping me.

Your description of the pattern during the M resembles our situation very much. She always blamed me for being controlling and for criticizing her all the time. And I admit that I did that although I never realized how painful that was to her until it was too late. I was also a perfectionist and I would sweat the small stuff.

Her way of becoming distant and cold only made things worse. She never expressed how she felt and what she wanted me to do. I tried my best to love her and be good, but I guess neither of us understood the repeatable pattern that was going on. I continued to criticize and sweat the small stuff and she continued to be distant.

Maybe one difference compared to your story is that I was more successful than her in my career, I made much more money, and I appeared to have a stronger personality in general. She was shy, dependent, and usually very quiet.

Then, at some point (about a couple of years before BD), I think she decided it was all because of me. I guess that for many years, my criticism used to make her feel bad about herself. She felt she wasn't good enough. I never intended to do this consciously. She was always good at hiding her feelings, which made matters worse because I had no idea my criticism was hurting her. So I continued doing it. My main intention was to make things perfect as you said.

At that point, she started to detach completely and do her own things. I had no idea this was going on although I did notice in the last few years that whenever we would start a fight she would say "I don't care" and would just leave.

But I never felt that I was really miserable. Her detachment was annoying me and I wished to get more love from her, but I was satisfied with my life.

The most noticeable difference in our stories is that she is the one who decided to leave and she is the one who doesn't want to work on the marriage anymore. On her request, we already signed a legal separation settlement and we are in the process of filing for D.

A couple of months ago, I started feeling good about myself again and started looking forward for my new life without her, but in the last few days, I am starting to think about her again. Maybe it's because we are filing for D. I realize that I still love her, and deep down I would still prefer to reconcile. But I don't know if that will ever be possible. I'd love to tell her all that, but I don't think she is ready for it. It might make things worse. So I am just living my life and she's living hers.

To be honest, sometimes I wonder if this no-contact approach makes sense. Life seems too short not to fight for the one we love and let them know what we want. Otherwise, how will she know? She'll keep blaming me for everything and will never review her perception of how our relationship was.

[kiro]

Thank you again FS

This train of thought is what I focused on for the first 6 to 12 months after BD and it helped me understand her and be loving and forgiving. But then, when things started getting more serious with mediation and D, my focus became more selfish. I was in tremendous pain and I became depressed and angry at her. And this is why I couldn't forgive her for what she did.

But your last post forced me to think again about her pains during the M and how miserable she must have been. This helps me forgive.

[kiro]

Can our MR still be saved? Yes. But it will be a long and painful road back and it will require humility, understanding and forgiveness. Forgiveness and understanding I have, humility I am still working on. My H is still in the fog and even if he comes out, humility is never something he has been good at.

Very true. I have understanding and humility.

Forgiveness has been my challenge. Whenever I focus on what I did wrong and how she felt, I can forgive. But I have a hard time forgiving her for not trying to save the M.

My W has always had a problem with all 3 especially humility.