She wants you to be of service to her but she doesnt want you emotionally.
Detaching is for you. Not for her. Detaching means that you are doing things without any expectations of getting emotional support or providing emotional support. It's for your mental health.
The best way to figure out how to detach for me was taking note of what made me feel bad in my interactions with my W.
What are you doing right now, in interacting with her where you come away feeling emotionally destroyed? What actions cause you to jump on the rollercoaster? Or what expectations have you set up, based on some action, makes you ride the rollercoaster when the expectation is not met?
That's where you need to detach from. You dont need to be a jerk. It's not about punishing her. It's about realizing what you need to do that makes you feel good and let's you remove yourself emotionally from the situation so that you aren't stuck feeling like garbage all day.
Once you figure out how to detach, you will feel better, more confident etc. It will show. You absolutely have to help with the kids. You're the dad. But you need to take action based on benefiting the kids and yourself and not with any expectation that W is going to appreciate what you are doing. Because if you take action thinking "I hope she likes this" you will just get hurt when she doesnt care.
When you do something for someone that's acting like this they aren't thinking "wow, that was nice, I appreciate them for doing that". They are thinking from a place of selfishness where it's more like "damn right he better do that for me"
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
She wants you to be of service to her but she doesnt want you emotionally.
Detaching is for you. Not for her. Detaching means that you are doing things without any expectations of getting emotional support or providing emotional support. It's for your mental health.
The best way to figure out how to detach for me was taking note of what made me feel bad in my interactions with my W.
What are you doing right now, in interacting with her where you come away feeling emotionally destroyed? What actions cause you to jump on the rollercoaster? Or what expectations have you set up, based on some action, makes you ride the rollercoaster when the expectation is not met?
That's where you need to detach from. You dont need to be a jerk. It's not about punishing her. It's about realizing what you need to do that makes you feel good and let's you remove yourself emotionally from the situation so that you aren't stuck feeling like garbage all day.
Once you figure out how to detach, you will feel better, more confident etc. It will show. You absolutely have to help with the kids. You're the dad. But you need to take action based on benefiting the kids and yourself and not with any expectation that W is going to appreciate what you are doing. Because if you take action thinking "I hope she likes this" you will just get hurt when she doesnt care.
When you do something for someone that's acting like this they aren't thinking "wow, that was nice, I appreciate them for doing that". They are thinking from a place of selfishness where it's more like "damn right he better do that for me"
She totally wants me to be of service but doesn’t want me emotionally—and that’s what I struggle with. I don’t think it’s fair, and I know it’s not about what I think, or about fairness or anything. But still. She only wants / needs me when it is convenient for her, and that is NOT what marriage is all about.
What hurts with her is the silence in the car rides.
I’m trying not to be a jerk or punish her—but it’s hard for me to interact with someone who only wants me to suit her needs, and I thought I was trying to follow the rule about not starting conversations with her.
I absolutely help with the kids—I have done that, and will continue to do that. But I also know that everything I do is FOR THEM—but the thoughts about ‘well what will she do without me’ still stick in my head. Maybe that’s what I need to kick away first.
But yeah, for her it’s ‘damn right he better do that for me.’ And that’s it.
Not initiating conversation is fine. You will get used to it. But only if you are consistent. Remember, you are NOT her friend. When that gets said its not like "I hate you I am not your friend". It means, you are not her friend, because you didn't marry her to only be friends, you married her to be her husband. Since she doesnt want that you are not going to just fall back into the friend zone and live there with no movement.
I am almost completely NC with my WW.
It helps me not talking to her. It protects my emotions not talking to her. Thats not for her, its not to punish her. Limiting contact is helping you move forward with yourself and your life. If there is any sort of attachment, you are going to hurt and never most past the hurt.
Last edited by SoTorn; 01/07/1904:51 PM.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I do help with nighttime, where I can. YS breast-feeds and it’s really difficult for him to take a bottle, otherwise I would. Could I try it—well, that might entail lots of screaming / carrying on from YS (at least at first), and that would not help anyone. She’s asked me that when she is around that she feeds him. In that respect, I carry out her wishes. What I do at night is diaper-change, and if he won’t go back to sleep, I have often stayed up with him and walked him around the house to help him get back to sleep.
Ah, OK that makes sense. I think that sounds fine then, the way you phrased it before made it sound like she was doing 100% of it.
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I help pick up the boys from school / daycare, and when she goes away on work trips, I’m responsible for everyone. Part of my thinking with respect to getting to school early is that I try to get as much done early as I can so I can be more present to everyone later on, when I get home, in the evening.
OK, so she takes care of mornings and you do afternoons, that sounds fair enough. Of course nothing you do is going to be "good enough" while she's in her fog but the idea of "showing her what she'll be missing" is really just to plant seeds that may blossom later.
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What I’ve been trying to do is not start conversations unless she does—or did I misunderstand that piece of advice?
Well the idea is to not initiate texting, phone calls and emails. The idea you are trying to send to her is not that you are being cold and dismissive, it's that you are busy. A lot of people around here don't quite grasp that. You're trying to portray that you are high value. A high value person has a lot going on, they're constantly on the move. If they don't reply to your text or answer your phone call, you don't think they are being rude, you think they are just occupied elsewhere. So that's the idea. But you mentioned the two of you driving together and you're not saying anything to her. Now that is a different situation, because she knows you're not busy doing something else. That's the difference. So yes don't initiate contact with her. But if you're caged up in the car with her then it's ok to talk and be friendly.
That said, the approach is a little different with an extreme wayward (lying cheater type). Often in that case, going completely dark is the best approach. But you would not even be in the car with her in the first place if you were that level of dark.
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What I’m struggling with right now is why she wants things from me when she’s trying to fire me as H.
I think SoTorn nailed it, "She wants you to be of service to her but she doesn't want you emotionally." She only wants you when it's convenient for her and when she gains something from it. But when it comes to emotional support and intimacy, that's where you've been fired.
Ah, OK that makes sense. I think that sounds fine then, the way you phrased it before made it sound like she was doing 100% of it.
Yeah, my bad. Can only type so much and only anticipate so much.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Well the idea is to not initiate texting, phone calls and emails. The idea you are trying to send to her is not that you are being cold and dismissive, it's that you are busy. A lot of people around here don't quite grasp that. You're trying to portray that you are high value. A high value person has a lot going on, they're constantly on the move. If they don't reply to your text or answer your phone call, you don't think they are being rude, you think they are just occupied elsewhere. So that's the idea. But you mentioned the two of you driving together and you're not saying anything to her. Now that is a different situation, because she knows you're not busy doing something else. That's the difference. So yes don't initiate contact with her. But if you're caged up in the car with her then it's ok to talk and be friendly.
I’ve been doing that...not responding to texts, at least right away.
W told me this morning about dropping boys off and gave me instructions for getting YS. I did break recent character and asked her how it went. She said she’s a bit of a wreck—haven’t done anything with it, but also teaching classes right now helps.
But yeah being in the car is kinda rough. It’s hard for me to want to initiate conversations with her right now—I haven’t really been finding her emotionally attractive recently, and this weekend kinda sealed the deal. Why reward this? Of course, for me, I should ditch the mindset of ‘punishing’ her, but I just straight up don’t find her emotionally attractive. To me, it does serve to protect me (though I also need to get away from the punitive ‘that’ll teach her / show her what she is missing’ mindset). It does help with emotional attachment (or lack thereof) / detachment—because if we start talking it can remind me of who she was and I could get caught up into what could be. But it also hurts because I feel so so bad about what was. Almost seems like a no-win.
As SoTorn also mentioned, I have no interest in being friend-zone’d. I’m not her roommate, not her gay boyfriend, not her BFF—I’m still her husband, and I deserve to be treated like it.
Hence also my lack of interest in doing things for her around the house. Not really interested. But I’ll do it if it benefits the boys—but not her.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I think SoTorn nailed it, "She wants you to be of service to her but she doesn't want you emotionally." She only wants you when it's convenient for her and when she gains something from it. But when it comes to emotional support and intimacy, that's where you've been fired.
Yup, this is straight up spot-on. And that’s what really hurts—and what to me looks / seems so selfish, is that she only wants from me what is convenient for her—not just being fired emotionally, but also physically (and even spiritually too). She can’t pick and choose—either all or me, or not. Not cool, not OK, and it’s gotta stop. And that’s where I’m coming from with me venting here about what she will miss—she thinks she can try and D me and still get all the features and benefits of an MR? No thank you. Which is why I also find the idea of maintaining 2 residences to be absolutely ludicrous. She wants to play family but not actually be family. It’s for the kids. Of course.
You need to get away from the house. You are way to available for her. She cannot feel your absence if you are there. Dont feel bad about waffling or wanting desperately to feel the love of your old W. Also, do not dwell on the mistakes you made in the past.
Okay, will try that.
You cannot change the past. If you feel bad about the past, acknowledge your mistakes, ask for forgiveness and never repeat those mistakes again.
Also, welcome to being human. Everyone makes mistakes and makes bad decisions. It happens.
I’m at this point mostly past beating myself up for the past. I’ve been trying to implement 180’s where I can, and change many of my behaviors and attitudes.
You cant fight for your marriage when the other spouse is not also fighting. You will just dig yourself deeper into depression doing that.
Be a ghost man. You put yourself in an extremely difficult situation where you end up wanting to give into the acts of service love language.
You can only benefit from acts of service when in an active loving M.
True that—hard to fight when she doesn’t want to fight for it. It’s like pulling on a rope, and instead of her pulling me towards her, I’m only falling backwards. Acts of service is my love language (how I give love)—but this is only for a functional, healthy MR. I’ve felt plenty taken advantage of, both in the past and currently.
She is manipulating the holy crap out of you. She dropped BD, makes you feel like a failure and then expects you to just complete her honey do list?
Do not do anything for the sole benefit of her or to please her. Why would you want to give to someone who is not appreciative of the giving? Why continue to run around at her direction when she has taken you for granted?
You are going to get stuck smack in the middle of feeling horrible all the time if you keep this up.
I’m just about done doing things for her. So, yeah—I’m here.
My WW was complaining the other day how I haven't been helping her etc. I told her "I am not here for your convenience, I am not your friend that's here to jump at every opportunity to help you."
I am not her friend, I am her husband. But she doesn't want me as her H. So why in the world would I keep up the acts of service for someone who would treat me like I dont matter anymore? This.
Go read the boundaries post. Also sit down and plan two weeks of GAL, part of it alone and part with the kid. I am either out all night, every night, with friends, alone or with my kids. I come home after WW is in bed.
Okay. Will re-read boundaries post, and work on GAL’ing. Idea occurred to me to find a Super Bowl party for me to go to, as well. Last year, before S hit the fan, we went to one—not gonna make the mistake of going out and looking like a happy couple.
Looking at L’ing up. Suggestions on what to look for / how to go about this?
Go ask around to find a good one, and ask the people who recommend them why they are good. Make sure they are aggressive. I don't know if it matters, but I was told that as a man you are better off with a woman lawyer in family court. I had 2 strong referrals that I got from non-family lawyers that said the referrals had really good reputations for being brutal and getting their clients what they want. The one I would have used found out who my W lawyer was and said he was just a big pu$$y and we were going to run W through the ringer. I dropped hints about what my prospective lawyer said in the consultation. It put a bit of the fear of God in W and we decided to be amicable and go the mediator/lawyer route. In the end it saved us a lot of money and an amicable child plan. If we didn't have kids the end result may have been different. Having kids meant that being amicable was in the best interest of the kids.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
I went to go pick up both boys after work / school. I originally thought that she asked me to text her if I CAN’T pick them up or will be late doing so.
W: I’m about to head out, need me to get either of the boys?
[At this time, I’m just about home with them—it’s a few minute drive back to our place]
W, again: I need an answer, do you have them?
Me: We are home.
W: I told you to tell me when you were on your way to get them
I know I’ve been told I’ve been too available to her recently, but I’m trying to soak up as much time with YS right now, because she’s basically threatening to take them away for half time.
W, earlier tonight, while I was holding YS (me, paraphrasing):
“I really did not appreciate you not texting me back about getting the boys. I also really don’t like the non-answers, or dancing around questions or evading answers. When I ask you a question, I want a direct answer.”
She then tells me that it’s always been that way with me, that things don’t register with me or I don’t get it, and that it makes her so upset.
Me, attempting to validate: I can see that it makes you really upset.
W then accuses me doing it to get back at her, and told me that no matter where our paths lead in life, we will need to work together.
Go ask around to find a good one, and ask the people who recommend them why they are good. Make sure they are aggressive. I don't know if it matters, but I was told that as a man you are better off with a woman lawyer in family court. I had 2 strong referrals that I got from non-family lawyers that said the referrals had really good reputations for being brutal and getting their clients what they want. The one I would have used found out who my W lawyer was and said he was just a big pu$$y and we were going to run W through the ringer. I dropped hints about what my prospective lawyer said in the consultation. It put a bit of the fear of God in W and we decided to be amicable and go the mediator/lawyer route. In the end it saved us a lot of money and an amicable child plan. If we didn't have kids the end result may have been different. Having kids meant that being amicable was in the best interest of the kids.
Who exactly should I ask? I really don’t have much in terms of a support group around here (non-SoCal native; my family is back east, and I don’t exactly feel like letting something like this slip at work just yet). I also know that my employer has an EAP, with legal services available, including lawyers and mediators, FWIW.
I have considered getting a female lawyer / mediator—that I do know.
I’ve been told here to lawyer up, but should I? Or should we go mediation? I do understand that it can save us $ and hopefully not makes things between W and I that much worse.
