I don't know how to approach her about this without destroying all the work we've put into this so far. I mean, really? How do you tell the woman you love that... You LOVE her but don't trust her NOT to become a promiscuous piece of garbage again?
Well maybe not in those exact terms, but really what do you have to lose by telling her. You don't trust her, and that is a huge issue. She needs to know that she has a huge roadblock ahead of her in regaining your trust.
Quote
Still we wait, and we DB, and we recreate ourselves into amazing people. Seriously, this site is FULL of the most amazing people that I have ever never met. We recreate ourselves, we stand up a lighthouse. We pray. We evolve and grow. We continue. We detach. We do fantastic things and overcome insurmountable obstacles.
Yes. All while our spouses do.... well pretty much nothing except have their fun and then hit rock bottom at some point. Then when recon is back on the table you've got a seriously changed LBS who has experienced tremendous growth, and the same old WAS.
Quote
She's done so much work already to try to regain my trust... seriously, she has done almost all of the things Sandi writes of when she describes how the LBS should approach a wayward who is returning. But I am so far from trusting my XW that I feel distant. And the more I become attached, the harder I want to push her away. What is wrong with me? Probably nothing but I don't feel like this is nothing.
There's nothing wrong with you, it's just your base instincts kicking in. The reason for it is you've been through hell, and your body, brain and intuition look at her and see red flags and alarms because you identify her with that hell you've been through. It's no different than if you eat mushrooms and the flu kicks in, the mushrooms had nothing to do with it but now you can't eat them because your instincts identify mushrooms with danger. Right? Everything in you is screaming "Joe we don't want to go through that ever again!" You're not going to get over that feeling overnight. Hell, you may never get over it. You need more time. It's like I said before, there's no hurry. Take things slowly.
Originally Posted by joejoe1
Joe,
I have been blown up in Iraq. Was Medavac off the battlefield. Watch people and vehicles shot up in Iraq. Shot at with PKMs and rockets in Afghanistan. Watch my friends vehicle get blown up in Afghanistan, I watch as they all stumbled out the MATV. Fall to the grown and we pulled security until the Medavac arrived. I watch how the little girls and women are treated by the men and the smelled the horrible smells coming from little girls that made heat paddies (which was made out of doo doo and dry grass). Which, the smells is really the only thing that haunts me today. I live normal life, considering. I have a Purple Heart and a Combat Action Badge.
My mother drown in Hurricane Katrina. And right after the Hurricane I didn't hear from anybody in my family for almost a week. And I didn't find out my mother had drawn until November 10th or so. I had to go to Baton to give a DNA sample, I did that in October of 2005. My mother's body rotted in our house for over 2 months in the New Orleans Humidity. We had to have a closed casket funeral. I cried for 3 months straight after her funeral and wouldn't believe she was dead because I never got to see her body, we were advised not to view it.
None of that has been as hard as piecing and learning to trust again. This Sh!t is harder than DBing. While DBing we are freeing ourselves, moving on, dumping the craziness, once we are on that path we start to gain clarity amd freedom. In piecing we are opening up our old wounds becoming vurnable again. It's not fun, and we see all the risk with opening ourselves up again to the person that wounded us, we see all that pain we just shook off us coming back and it scares the living hell out of us. It's not easy brother and it takes time, you have to be patient. Also, it took me a while to realize but your wife is not your healer, you are. Her job is to heal herself and work on the M. Your happiness and healing is not your W responsibility, ITS YOURS!!!!
Wow Joe (other Joe) that was intense! Thank you for sharing, I'm sure those are very difficult subjects for you to talk about, even on a forum.
And Joe and Joe (Joe squared) thank you both from the bottom of my heart for your service and for the many difficulties and challenges you've both suffered for us and our country!
Originally Posted by Joe2017
But it makes me feel like -- at least physically -- she gave her best to everyone else instead of me. And now I get leftovers?
Yeah, that's super shallow. Trust me I know. I am not actually that superficial, but I can't help this feeling that I'm settling for my XW. This is NOT about her appearance as much as it is the idea that she worked her ass off to give her ass to other dudes. And now she's probably never going to get to that level physically again.
That's not shallow, because it's not her appearance you have issues with. It's her attitude- you feel like she gives full effort to OM/ OM's while you get dregs. Reminds me of my ex, I would complain to her sometimes about the baggy, beige, years-old "granny panties" she wore and ask her to be more sexy, and then when she finally did but a bunch of sexy underwear I find out it's because she was two feet out the door (lucky OM!) At least in your ex's case she really is putting forth effort in other areas if not on the physical side, so you can take some solace in that.
Originally Posted by Sandi2 I wouldn't consider this Piecing. I wouldn't even consider it a reconciliation. You are just dating and talking. That's all.
I don't mean to hijack, but I'm wondering if Sandi you might be able to give a good definition of piecing? It doesn't apply to my sitch, but I've never quite been clear to the definition despite reading others who are working on it. Maybe there's a good definition somewhere I've missed.
I appreciate your question, Yail. I wish there was some type of definition or guidelines for posters to know if they even qualify for the Piecing Your Marriage Back Together stage. I say that b/c I have seen so many jump over to the Piecing forum when they weren't even close to having a sitch ready to piece.
The Piecing period comes after the couple reconciles. The couple should be reconciled, when they enter into the piecing stage. They are living together. There is no IHS separation, no sleeping in separate beds, etc. They are fully reconciled. Piecing does not mean there can be no problems to resolve, however, there can be no ongoing affair or contact with AP.
Piecing the M back together requires commitment from each spouse. They are in agreement to put forth the effort that is needed in restoring health, love, and happiness to the MR.
Piecing is a different place than Newcomers or MLC. Piecing requires both spouses working together to save their M. The rules or guidelines found in Newcomers, were not designed for couples in Piecing, therefore, some of those guidelines would not be applicable.
This may inspire me to come up with a list of do's and don'ts for Piecing.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Originally Posted by Sandi2 I wouldn't consider this Piecing. I wouldn't even consider it a reconciliation. You are just dating and talking. That's all.
I don't mean to hijack, but I'm wondering if Sandi you might be able to give a good definition of piecing? It doesn't apply to my sitch, but I've never quite been clear to the definition despite reading others who are working on it. Maybe there's a good definition somewhere I've missed.
I appreciate your question, Yail. I wish there was some type of definition or guidelines for posters to know if they even qualify for the Piecing Your Marriage Back Together stage. I say that b/c I have seen so many jump over to the Piecing forum when they weren't even close to having a sitch ready to piece.
The Piecing period comes after the couple reconciles. The couple should be reconciled, when they enter into the piecing stage. They are living together. There is no IHS separation, no sleeping in separate beds, etc. They are fully reconciled. Piecing does not mean there can be no problems to resolve, however, there can be no ongoing affair or contact with AP.
Piecing the M back together requires commitment from each spouse. They are in agreement to put forth the effort that is needed in restoring health, love, and happiness to the MR.
Piecing is a different place than Newcomers or MLC. Piecing requires both spouses working together to save their M. The rules or guidelines found in Newcomers, were not designed for couples in Piecing, therefore, some of those guidelines would not be applicable.
This may inspire me to come up with a list of do's and don'ts for Piecing.
Thanks for the explanation! It helps me to follow along with other people's sitches. I was under the impression Piecing was what happened before reconciling. Just a misunderstanding, I didn't know the term.
I have been to an IC quite a lot, but none of it has ever been focused on being with my ex again. I will have to figure out the logistics of getting in to see a MC.
The emphasis is on the healing from broken trust, betrayal, and the sort of pain only an A could bring to a LBH. This is why I said to find a therapist that specialized in that area. You may need to see one without your XW, IDK. I don't know that a recovering WW truly grasps the depth of pain she caused. Oh, she may think she knows, but being in a therapy session can bring some things upfront that would not be approached if left up to you.
After my A, my H did not talk about his pain. I learned from the other LBH's on the board, just how much a man suffers when his W is involved with OM.
I think every couple needs some type of counseling, program, books, or something to help them to heal and stay on track. It is very hard to come back from that pain and build a healthy MR. It can be done, but I think having a qualified therapist to guide you can make a big difference.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I have been to an IC quite a lot, but none of it has ever been focused on being with my ex again. I will have to figure out the logistics of getting in to see a MC.
The emphasis is on the healing from broken trust, betrayal, and the sort of pain only an A could bring to a LBH. This is why I said to find a therapist that specialized in that area. You may need to see one without your XW, IDK. I don't know that a recovering WW truly grasps the depth of pain she caused. Oh, she may think she knows, but being in a therapy session can bring some things upfront that would not be approached if left up to you.
After my A, my H did not talk about his pain. I learned from the other LBH's on the board, just how much a man suffers when his W is involved with OM.
I think every couple needs some type of counseling, program, books, or something to help them to heal and stay on track. It is very hard to come back from that pain and build a healthy MR. It can be done, but I think having a qualified therapist to guide you can make a big difference.
I did see a therapist today, and worked through some things with the IC that have been bothering me.
Thanks for that insight regarding the W's perspective. The first thing she said to me after I took her phone call was "I'm sorry I hurt you." but she had no idea yet how bad it affected me and S. It was a couple weeks later when she even began to realize the magnitude of it all. She KNEW she destroyed our family. She KNEW she damaged us. She KNEW she insulted me and disrespected me. She just didn't know how bad the damage was. Hell, she doesn't even remember some of it. She literally said she thinks she had an illness that broke her.
This is going to take a lot of time, and work on both of our parts. I am going to have to lovingly guide her, because she needs support too but has never had the benefit of a community like this forum. She also doesn't have any family. I have to pace myself through this process. I realized today that she probably never dealt with our divorce emotionally. She just ran from everything, so she is playing catch up. When her financial sitch evens out she will be able to get into counseling. Money is scarce for her after OM convinced her to finance a bunch of stuff she didn't need, and of course it's all in her name.
One mistake I made was to hit her with all of my personal requirements too fast. She was dealing with so much at once, and I did not have the thought process of helping her at the time. I was more focused on myself and my pain. Sure some things had to happen, like the transparency, the NC with OM, acceptance of blame, etc. But I'm sure it was an avalanche of intense emotions for her, and I could have been a bit more gentle I guess.
I really have to dial back the amount and frequency of R talk with her. It's important that we have time to enjoy each other's company, which is impossible if all our time is sucked into R talks. I mean, if we don't get an adequate amount of enjoyment out of dating each other again then what's the point? It has to be balanced in a healthy way.
Save yourself. Nobody is coming! BD:11/2017 Filed:12/2017 Final: 2/2018
I realized today that she probably never dealt with our divorce emotionally. She just ran from everything
Joe my sitch is different than your's but I'm closing in on a year separated from WW and what you said right there...
When I was just at my IC before Xmas she said to me "I don't believe your WW has dealt with the separation, ending of the relationship and likely never will". That completely blew me away! I mean mouth open, "how in the H" could that be. I say that to you because I think you are very wise to be thinking that you need to "roll back the clocks" so to speak much further than just you and XW getting into R or piecing.
I just wanted to say from personal experience your insights are wise and I like your approach to taking your approach with her more as a slow simmer and less like a hot boil.
I'm in a very similar situation Ballast. I feel my WW has ran away also and not dealt with our seperation and end of the relationship. I havent seen or spoke to her since last september. She's still in her A.
Hang in there Joe. I know that you will make it through.
BH: 36 WW:33 M: 2 Relationship: 6 years. Dday: Aug 2018 0 1st mention of D: 30/09, 2nd Mention 17/02/2019 LRT: Oct 2018 WW & AP: EA & PA since June 2018 (Moved country and in with AP Feb 2019)
Journaling: Rough week so far. In a few ways we are falling back to old habits. Assuming what each other are thinking, putting words in each other's mouth. Etc. She is pulling away from me emotionally some, but it's understandable with everything she's got going on with her job and finances. She is under a considerable amount of stress.
We talked about it, and I think we're good, but now I have to put it into action.
I do not want to add to her stress too much right now. I'm going to back off of her some more and just go do me for a couple days. I have a party tomorrow I'm going to (without her) and tonight I think I'll stay in and get some chores done that I've been putting off. We have a date scheduled for this weekend, so that will be nice.
One day at a time.
Save yourself. Nobody is coming! BD:11/2017 Filed:12/2017 Final: 2/2018
