I've been reading some of the intro thread and see there is plenty more to read on the recommended links so will get busy reading them too.
Unfortunately I joined the ranks of the recently separated a few months ago, Here's a snapshot of the story:
08/20/2018 BD. I came home to find a letter from W(44) stating she wasn't happy, hasn't been for 5 years, wasn't attracted to me anymore and asking for a separation - Thing is I didn't have much choice in the situation as she had walked out that day leaving behind the letter and her wedding bands. I was completely blindsided and devastated. W went & stayed (and still is) with (Step) MIL but has also been doing a lot of intl travel to escape being there too.
I wrote W a letter that first week acknowledging her feelings, apologizing and owning up to my shortcomings in our relationship. At first she was grateful but then became angry with the letter saying if I knew of the shortcomings why didn't I do more about it then. (I'm thinking due to Complacency & not recognizing how bad things were.) I asked her to consider giving us a second chance but did not beg or threaten etc..
W left 2 weeks before we were booked to go on a Long Haul trip to my homeland to celebrate my 50th birthday with family & friends. W asked if I would like her to still join me on trip. I declined as it was just all to fresh and confusing. Basically my 50th Birthday was awful. I didn't want to see a lot of friends and family as I couldn't face the questions, pity, felt so embarrassed and I simply wasn't in a good state of mind. Just so hurt & confused.
I knew my personal life had been out of balance for some time. I had worked a helluva lot on building up my business and when not doing that renovating the house we purchased 8 years ago. The renovations were near complete & I had laid plans for post turning 50 to make major changes in my lifestyle, which I had started prior to W walking out & have continued post BD. I have gotten fit, lost some excess weight, eating well, drinking little and working a lot less which = de-stressing. I'm not in crisis & doing pretty well!
We don't have kids so that dynamic isn't present. We do have 15~ year old cats who we both adore and stayed with me at the house. I am motivated & dedicated to trying to save our marriage, but have the strength and clarity to move on with My life without her if the relationship can't be saved. I had asked a couple of times if there was OM & she has said no. I don't see any signs indicating she is lying but I'm open minded enough to understand there may be (or have been) someone else.
I sought out IC straight after BD, was going weekly & now fortnightly. This has been helpful and I'll continue. W is seeing IC too but from what I have read, her IC specialty is working people through separation and being an advocate of it (the therapist is on her 2nd marriage & I feel may project her personal opinion & thoughts onto clients)
I picked up DB book mid November but had already started applying some of the 180 techniques from reading other forums, books before learning of DB as a method. I haven't displayed any anger towards my W as I'm not angry, just incredibly disappointed.
W has moved very few items out of the house. Conversations shortly after leaving W was adamant there was no hope. Her feelings had been chipped away for too long. I've been applying the DB methods, GAL & having very little contact early on, not being the one to initiate conversation & being the one to end conversations etc.
The TG & Xmas holidays were lonely but I'm not one to wallow in self pity. Went out with some friends and just had fun on those days. I don't have any family in the USA and limited friends but working on GAL & meeting new people etc. When I do W I don't open discussion on our R & I'm considerably more upbeat than I was prior to BD. I have changed & have an outwardly happy demeanor around her. A lot more like when we first met.
I'll keep on working on the principles and modify/adapt to what works.
My W wanted to have dinner with me last night & it was all well & pleasant. She brought me a Xmas gift after not having giving me one over Xmas. (I gave her & MIL small gifts but wasn't expecting anything in return.) Anyway, after polite conversation about family, work, etc & the check came, (which she picked up) she said, So, how do you want to move forward with things? We had been drinking (not heavily) but I responded with "I'm not prepared to discuss relationship things right here & now. Will be happy to meet and discuss during the day" (Meaning when I have a fully clear head, not tired and even the slightest bit inebriated.)
Long term Goal I would like to get back together with some behavior modifications from both sides. Short term, I would like to see if she would be open to moving back home and try living in separate rooms but have no idea if that's something she would agree to. Also I don't want to lay the cards down like that.
There's plenty more to this story but figured I'll make an intro and go from there!
H:50 (me) W:44 M:12 T:22 BD: 08/2018 W Moved out 08/2018
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Hi Sokaku, I'm glad you found the DB board, but sorry for your situation. How long have you been married?
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I knew my personal life had been out of balance for some time. I had worked a helluva lot on building up my business and when not doing that renovating the house we purchased 8 years ago.
We see a lot of couples break up b/c they don't have enough time to devote to each other. As a man/husband, you were doing the job you saw as a priority.......which was having a business that allowed provisions, and building a place to live. Not long ago, there was a man here who had a very similar story. He put in long hours at work, plus he was renovating or building a house. I think he had been working on that house about the same amount of years as your situation. Anyway, last I heard, he and his W had reconciled.
Is your W employed full time?
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I came home to find a letter from W(44) stating she wasn't happy, hasn't been for 5 years, wasn't attracted to me anymore and asking for a separation - Thing is I didn't have much choice in the situation as she had walked out that day leaving behind the letter and her wedding bands. I was completely blindsided and devastated.
Why do you think she did not discuss this with you, before she moved out? Was she afraid to tell you face to face? Do you have anger issues; make her feel bad about herself; or treat her badly in some manner?
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I wrote W a letter that first week acknowledging her feelings, apologizing and owning up to my shortcomings in our relationship. At first she was grateful but then became angry with the letter saying if I knew of the shortcomings why didn't I do more about it then. (I'm thinking due to Complacency & not recognizing how bad things were.) I asked her to consider giving us a second chance but did not beg or threaten etc..
Okay, I think that indicates you are not too prideful to admit your shortcomings, and ask her to reconsider. Now that you have apologized and asked her for another chance.....I suggest you not do it again. Once is enough, unless there is more to your story.
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W left 2 weeks before we were booked to go on a Long Haul trip to my homeland to celebrate my 50th birthday with family & friends.
How long since she had visited her homeland? Previous to moving out, had she shown excitement about the trip? When you told her you rather she not join you on the trip, did she appear disappointed.....or could you determine?
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I had asked a couple of times if there was OM & she has said no. I don't see any signs indicating she is lying but I'm open minded enough to understand there may be (or have been) someone else.
How would describe the W you've had the past five or less years? Strong willed, a sense of entitlement, over-bearing, bossy, moody, self efficient, sweet, affectionate, selfless, independent or co-dependent? Notice any changes in her the past few months? Have you noticed changes to her personal appearance? New hair color/style, dressing younger, losing weight and working out, looking sexier?
Have you noticed her being extra guarded with her phone? Laying it face down? Taking it to the bathroom, sleeping with it, etc.? Any new friends lately?
How has your sex life been the past couple of years....or more? Any changes from what you would say is your normal pattern with intimacy?
I don't think you need to quiz her about an affair or OM again. Some women will admit an affair, but it's been my experience on the board to see more W's who won't admit it.......even when evidence is staring them in the face. So, let me ask you, is infidelity a deal breaker for you?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Short term, I would like to see if she would be open to moving back home and try living in separate rooms but have no idea if that's something she would agree to. Also I don't want to lay the cards down like that.
Do not offer. Wait for her to ask to move back in. Your response will "I am not sure how I feel about that. I need time to think about it. I will let you know when I have decided."
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Short term, I would like to see if she would be open to moving back home and try living in separate rooms but have no idea if that's something she would agree to. Also I don't want to lay the cards down like that.
Do not offer. Wait for her to ask to move back in. Your response will "I am not sure how I feel about that. I need time to think about it. I will let you know when I have decided."
Thanks R2C, I'm not going to make the offer & the reality is my response will echo your comment as she will need to make some serious changes in her own life.
H:50 (me) W:44 M:12 T:22 BD: 08/2018 W Moved out 08/2018
Hi Sokaku, I'm glad you found the DB board, but sorry for your situation. How long have you been married?
Hi Sandi, thank you for responses. I'll try to add detail here. We have been together 22 years, married 12.
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I knew my personal life had been out of balance for some time. I had worked a helluva lot on building up my business and when not doing that renovating the house we purchased 8 years ago.
Is your W employed full time?
No, she finished full time work about 4 years ago. She has been working on writing & art but they are both things she does by herself & I think she misses the camaraderie of a workplace environment. I think there's also very little sense of achievement as the work she has done since leaving the full time job hasn't been very, um completed?
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I came home to find a letter from W(44) stating she wasn't happy, hasn't been for 5 years, wasn't attracted to me anymore and asking for a separation - Thing is I didn't have much choice in the situation as she had walked out that day leaving behind the letter and her wedding bands. I was completely blindsided and devastated.
Why do you think she did not discuss this with you, before she moved out? Was she afraid to tell you face to face? Yes, apparently so. She has issues with any form of conflict. I believe it's related to her Father...
Do you have anger issues; make her feel bad about herself; or treat her badly in some manner? No Anger issues, door slamming, yelling - Zip. I have a analytical nature which may at times come across as critical, but have always loved, encouraged, emotionally supported & respected her.
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I wrote W a letter that first week acknowledging her feelings, apologizing and owning up to my shortcomings in our relationship. At first she was grateful but then became angry with the letter saying if I knew of the shortcomings why didn't I do more about it then. (I'm thinking due to Complacency & not recognizing how bad things were.) I asked her to consider giving us a second chance but did not beg or threaten etc..
Okay, I think that indicates you are not too prideful to admit your shortcomings, and ask her to reconsider. Now that you have apologized and asked her for another chance.....I suggest you not do it again. Once is enough, unless there is more to your story.
Heard, thank you. TBH there's not much more to say to her on that front at this point. I acknowledged mt shortcomings, didn't blame or make excuses, and relayed my disappointment that neither of us made the effort to seek counseling when things were (apparently so) bad.
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W left 2 weeks before we were booked to go on a Long Haul trip to my homeland to celebrate my 50th birthday with family & friends.
How long since she had visited her homeland? Previous to moving out, had she shown excitement about the trip? Our homelands are on opposite side of the planet. 11 hour flight to hers, 13 hours to mine. We kind of live in between the two. We visit each others homelands at least once a year together & at least once a year independently. She was last in her homeland 6 weeks before leaving.
When you told her you rather she not join you on the trip, did she appear disappointed.....or could you determine? I'd say relieved. She wouldn't want to face my friends & family with them knowing how she had left. That being said, some of our friends still don't know of the split.
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I had asked a couple of times if there was OM & she has said no. I don't see any signs indicating she is lying but I'm open minded enough to understand there may be (or have been) someone else.
How would describe the W you've had the past five or less years? Strong willed - No a sense of entitlement - Yes over-bearing - No bossy - Not really moody - Yes self efficient - Not really sweet - At times affectionate - At times selfless - At times Co-dependent - IDK
Probably best description is a bit of a lost soul TBH.
Notice any changes in her the past few months? - Nothing major Have you noticed changes to her personal appearance? - No but she has gained a little weight which she hates & commented a few months ago she wants to keep out of the sun as her skin seems to be aging... She also has a lot of trouble sleeping. New hair color/style, dressing younger, losing weight and working out, looking sexier? - No
Have you noticed her being extra guarded with her phone? Laying it face down? Taking it to the bathroom, sleeping with it, etc.? Any new friends lately? She has been addicted to social media for a few years now. Has been kind of secretive with her phone but not to the point of hiding entering her password. I could see that anytime and she never changed it. I didn't snoop her phone. She may have been having an A or EA but she may have also just not wanted me to see conversations with her GF's complaining about me? Who knows..
How has your sex life been the past couple of years....or more? Any changes from what you would say is your normal pattern with intimacy? Sex life hasn't been great for a while. She would hardly ever initiate and when she did it was normally alcohol fueled which is a major turn off for me if I haven't been drinking too. Unfortunately I fell into the trap of Always being the person driving to events so I would not be drinking and she would. Arguments were a lot more prevalent during alcohol consumption but no yelling etc.
I don't think you need to quiz her about an affair or OM again. Some women will admit an affair, but it's been my experience on the board to see more W's who won't admit it.......even when evidence is staring them in the face. So, let me ask you, is infidelity a deal breaker for you? I'm not going to ask again. I actually just sort clarification once. (on a side note, I have never had any A) It's not a deal breaker which is why I am still trying to work things out. Reading the stories here it seems like a 95%- to 5% chance she was having an A but just kept it well hidden? I mean Occams Razor loosely says the simplest or most obvious will be true vs a complex theory.
H:50 (me) W:44 M:12 T:22 BD: 08/2018 W Moved out 08/2018
Sokaku, my heart goes out to you. In general terms, I am in a similar situation and this is the most tortuous, most painful emotional place I have ever been in. I can only share the ways I try to cope with being in this place.
(1) Interior Life. I have returned to the beliefs and practices of the interior life I had long ignored. If you have such a life, whether or not orthodox (i.e. conforming to a formal, organized system of beliefs), you may want to visit or revisit it. I can honestly say this is the only thing that has kept me alive. (Yes, I mean this literally.)
(2) Humble Responsibility. I accept responsibility for my failures and mistakes as a parent and spouse, but I also recognize these are not any more egregious than the next person's. No physical or emotional abuse; no drug or gambling habits; no extramarital betrayals. Just plain vanilla conflicts typifying any long-term, intimate relationship.
(3) Compassionate Awareness. Whatever my mistakes in (2), I also recognize Walking Away is NEVER emotionally mature behavior. It took several months, but my W eventually acknowledged she walked away in panic. Whatever emotional reality she was in at the time (e.g. her fear I was going to hurt her), she now realizes it was not based on reality. But it was for her to come to this realization; I neither pushed it nor did I try to make her feel bad about it.
(4) Love at a Distance. This is hardest of all, made possible for me only through (1). Given my understanding of the scale of my mistakes in (2) and the realities of amygdala hijack in (3), I recognize my W has to work out for herself if she wants to save the marriage. I've made it clear that while I accept partial responsibility for the state of M, responsibility for ending M (if it comes to this) is solely hers. So I am in a constant mode of struggle to find the patience, discipline, and trust to leave her free in her journey of self-discovery.
Thank you, Sokaku, for answering my questions. It really helps in getting a clearer picture. I have only a few more questions about your W.
Does she show some type of behavior toward you that makes you feel disrespected? If so, can you share what it is that she does? And, has this been a pattern throughout the relationship, or in the past recent year?
You said she could have a sense of entitlement. Can you give an example?
Last question for now........would you describe her "moods" as anger or sadness?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
