two steps forward, three steps back (burned)

[Vapo]

you pulled the D trigger just to get a response from her

It’s what she wanted, asked for, etc. I’ve been accused of being controlling, manipulative, egocentric, clinging. I give her what she wants as a first step in trying NOT to be those things.

You are playing in her hand beautifully.

Is there anything to be gained from being oppositional?

that is in fact just fancy wording for lying to yourself and making excuses for yourself so you do not have to do any work. Classic avoidance that is. And also you are actively sabotaging yourself. One has to wonder if you are sabotaging yourself in other aspects of your life as well.

You hit the nail on the head, obviously. My question is still along the same lines: if I’m learning to fight avoidance, and doing the work that I don’t want to do, namely, letting her go and giving her the D she wants...isn’t that progress, at least for me? Like, a first step so that then I can start doing the rest of the work, unencumbered by the guilt I feel for refusing to do what she asks?

I appreciate the time you take to respond. I’m doing my best but it’s a long road ahead. I’m just really, really confused by all of the different advice I get.

Anything else I can do now, or will it make it worse if I back down?

B,

I know you are probably feeling like crap right now and I am sorry that my writing has caused you discomfort. But things had to be said and IMO it is better to be brutally honest and not sugar coating things.

You are playing in her hand beautifully.

Is there anything to be gained from being oppositional?

There is a difference in being oppositional and being an instigator. The proper MO would be to let her run the show with the rationale it's her divorce, she can do the legwork for it. And to answer you with your own argument. Could it not be understood that you filing is a clear signal to her that you do not want her in your life? Now she has it in black and white that you are divorcing her and she can continue playing the victim, big bad Burned divorcing sweet fragile devastated Mrs. Burned. I still maintain that you did it only to try and shake her out of it. Guess what, you failed. No biggie, dust yourself off and stand tall again. Let her file if she must, I very much doubt the insta D will offer you much solace.

I know you must feel you are doing something, but the work that is in front of you is ATM internal and not external. You have to rebuild you. I know you are probably shaking your head reading this thinking WTF. It takes time to understand, even more so to get one's ass in gear and start moving, it is only after you started moving you see what a magical journey lies ahead. You will see you can achieve much more than you ever dreamed of.

I appreciate the time you take to respond. I’m doing my best but it’s a long road ahead. I’m just really, really confused by all of the different advice I get.

What different advice did you get? I must say I follow your thread closely and I cannot remember any advice given to you that would be conflicting. Please remember you can always use these boards to bounce of ideas you might have. Or if you have a problem grasping a concept, we will repeat, reshape it for you to better understand.

To finish this post I would just like to ask you one thing. Do you want to be divorced? If the answer is no, than do not file, let her file.

V.

[Ginger1]

Everything you do is a ploy to get he back, rather than to better yourself.

she comes to you with the D paperwork. You don't fight it and do your part. There, that isn't avoidance, and it also isn't a tactic to get her back. I think your 180's aren't being done quite properly. Change things YOU would like to see changed in yourself, not what your W wants to see.

My ex pretty much was willing to hand anything over to begin his life with his OW. We didn't have much, anyways. But we did share a kid. He just wanted "standard" custody, which was not 50/50. every other weekend and one night a week. There was nothing more he wanted than to start his life with his OW and he got that. They have been married for 7 years now, lol. Did I hand it to him? No. Did I fight him and try to delay it? No. I am in the camp of, if you don't want to be here, I am not going to force you to be. because that isn't love.

She may have been resolved to this for a long time. She probably has done the mourning you are doing and you didn't know it.

Db will work for you when you work it. Just like AA. It may not save your M, but it will save you and future R's.

[burned]

I know you are probably feeling like crap right now and I am sorry that my writing has caused you discomfort. But things had to be said and IMO it is better to be brutally honest and not sugar coating things.

Brutally honest works for me, but it also makes me react kind of defensively. My goal is to challenge the ideas so as to better understand them. But even then, I'm intellectualizing, which is an avoidance tactic.

The proper MO would be to let her run the show with the rationale it's her divorce, she can do the legwork for it.

This is consistent with what people here have been saying. I've had a lot of trouble aligning it with the other advice, which is that I shouldn't let her run the show.

Could it not be understood that you filing is a clear signal to her that you do not want her in your life? Now she has it in black and white that you are divorcing her and she can continue playing the victim, big bad Burned divorcing sweet fragile devastated Mrs. Burned. I still maintain that you did it only to try and shake her out of it.

Nailed it. That was my intent. "Sh1t or get off the pot." I'm not her plan B, I don't want to be married to someone who clearly wants a D. Right? So again it's hard to combine those two different ideas.

Also, there is not a single person in real life who hasn't told me I should move the process forward. "Give her what she wants, don't be a jerk, don't cling to her." So I'm told to just tell them to leave me alone about it. But then they say "Well then don't come crying to us!" And who else do I go crying to? Maybe that's the point of GAL.

And she called my bluff! Or, rather, she didn't say anything either way. So I don't know what she thinks and I'm going to actively try to stop mind reading all the time.

the work that is in front of you is ATM internal and not external. You have to rebuild you. I know you are probably shaking your head reading this thinking WTF. It takes time to understand, even more so to get one's ass in gear and start moving

I want to SAY "I get this" but apparently I'm not getting it. It makes sense, rationally. I just seem to be incapable of functioning when I fear that someone is going to hurt me. And I fear the D will hurt me. So there's one area where I could do some work.

For the record, I've been in IC. IC thinks I have to "act despite the fear" which means just do the darn D already. Yet he is also in favor of "do what's right for you and stand up for yourself" which is consistent with what people here say but not entirely consistent with "getting it overwith." So which do I choose? Then he says "Choose what's right for you and accept responsibility for the consequences." So...yeah.

I've also been going to Co-dependents Anonymous groups beginning in December. Mildly helpful. I am starting to see the irony in that I'm trying to "please" everyone by trying to figure out what they want me to do and then do it. Like, people who say "do the D already," I feel a need to please them, because they make a good argument in favor of it. Likewise for the opposite. Ugh.

Do you want to be divorced? If the answer is no, than do not file, let her file.

No, with all of my heart I do not want to be divorced. Rationally, it seems like the best outcome for everyone. But emotionally, it's not what I want.

So what do I do? Just let it sit? She will say, "You said you'd get the paperwork done so that you could transfer the money." How do I respond to that without looking like a wishy-washy plan B? I dug myself into a bad hole here.

[Vapo]

"Sorry W, I've thought it over and I have come to the realization that divorce is not what I want so I will not file."

So what do I do? Just let it sit? She will say, "You said you'd get the paperwork done so that you could transfer the money." How do I respond to that without looking like a wishy-washy plan B? I dug myself into a bad hole here.

So you'd rather be divorced than considered wishy washy?!? Read this one out loud to yourself and you will understand the enormity of your gaff. Again you are avoiding a situation that you potentially find unpleasant (can you say avoidance).

When you are talking from the position of your beliefs, you will project strength. You BELIEVE you should not get divorced, so TRANSMIT your BELIEF that the divorce is not something you want. If she wants it, let her do the legwork for it. You will not fight her, you just will not help her. There is a difference, a GIGANTIC one.

Kick your inner pu$$y's a$$!

[burned]

Got it. So in a few days she will text and say "What's the status" and I will give her that response. Then she'll flip out and do the blah blah blah you said you'd do it. She'll accuse me of controlling her by telling her she'll get the money after D and then not doing the D. Then I just stand my ground and say "Well then you know what you need to do" or will that be controlling, too?

Tough love, I guess. But it means I have to swallow the fear that she will then come charging out the door and make it happen.

[Vapo]

You know what, fcuk it. If I were you, I'd pick up the phone and call her exactly that. That way you will not be stressed out when the text is coming (and you KNOW it is coming) and you'd also pull a 180 (being assertive).

And trust me, it will feel darn awesome. If she starts giving you lip about it, you just say W, I see your point, however my mind is set. Good day!

[burned]

Sounds exciting. Can I do it by email? It seems like a sudden and abrupt change of tactic.

[Vapo]

Dude,

do if however you want to do it, but doing it over the phone will also go a bit towards your avoidance issue.

NIKE

[burned]

Haven't talked to her on the phone or ftf since September.

So she gets a call all of a sudden, just me passing through to say "Hey I know we emailed about this last night but I thought about it and it's not what I want. If it's what you want, I won't stand in your way." And then blah blah blah blah from her and then I say, "OK, I know that's how you feel. Sorry, gotta go."

She will think I'm manipulating her, no?

[Vapo]

Who gives a rat's a$$ what she's thinking...