Wow, just saw the quote on monogamy being counter to biology. If you believe in humanism, all we are are mammal thinking, then I can see this.
However, I think there are many things that separate us from mere mammals. The spiritual. The intellect. The ability to choose actions based on factors other than instinct. This is what separates us from animals. I do not believe in the humans = mammals/animal thinking. And feel it is fraught with peril to believe that.
We are above animals. Spirituality (our dual nature). Mentally (our intellect being on a much higher plane). And morally (this action is wrong so I won't engage in it even though I want to).
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
More and more I am coming to the conclusion that monogamy should be viewed as ONE option of many.
Fair enough. I choose to believe in MR mostly from religious perspective
Agree with this, as I do as well. However, I think biology also teaches us monogamy is the better option. How? Through the existence and transmission of STDs. And yes, STDs exist in the animal world as well as in humans. The difference? We know enough to prevent infection! The best way to avoid STDs is to be part of a committed marital relationship that practices monogamy. This is biology and using our intellect to avoid disease. No different than using our intellect to dispose of bodies properly. Rather than seeing them as yet another source of food, unlike many animals in the animal kingdom.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I said 'fair enough' because this is a debatable subject. The debate is a fair game on an intellectual level, but this sidetracks us from the core issue here.
In my sitch, both W and I were practicing believers when we met. We got married based on common beliefs that included the usual values of MR, such as commitment, monogamy, faithfulness, trust... And we lived together based on these values for 17 years.
The fact that she decided to have an A is betrayal to our MR based on the agreed upon values and contract. It's basic contract management. 1 party cannot change the terms of the contract without the other's participation and approval. Unfortunately, the terms of this type of contract are not enforceable and anyone can walk out at any time. If she doesn't believe in the same values anymore, it's her right, but it's a betrayal to what we have. I felt insulted when my W started to justify her actions using such things that monogamy is not the only option, commitment for life didn't make any sense, that she was too young to make such a decision when we got married, etc. C'mon! That's B.S. to try and rationalize her infatuation and fantasies. No accountability whatsoever! Changing the rules every time we feel like breaking them...
Me:49 XW:41, M:18 years, Kids: S18,S14 BD:JULY 2017, W moved out: DEC 2017 Filed for D: APR 2019, D Final: JULY 2019
I offered my perspective as it was organically brought up in the thread. I have no interest in debating it and I certainly am not in the camp of trying to convert anyone to my school of thought. There is fantastic research and literature out there from a scientific perspective that makes a different case. I understand the stance from a religious point of view and that's totally fine. Anyone who engages in an alternative option than monogamy stresses that it is not the RIGHT option for everyone, but it may be for some.
Just a corrective: when I say move on or wait, by the latter I don't mean passively waiting, but rather staying committed.
I am moving on. This year alone, I am publishing three peer-reviewed papers, organizing a conference, moving overseas, connecting with nonprofits to provide skills to developing countries.
Spiritually, I make a choice regarding physical commitment, even during separation. Do I impose this belief-based choice on others? Far be it for me, other than by personal example, to dictate how others live.
I offered my perspective as it was organically brought up in the thread. I have no interest in debating it and I certainly am not in the camp of trying to convert anyone to my school of thought. There is fantastic research and literature out there from a scientific perspective that makes a different case. I understand the stance from a religious point of view and that's totally fine. Anyone who engages in an alternative option than monogamy stresses that it is not the RIGHT option for everyone, but it may be for some.
Originally Posted by paco123
Just a corrective: when I say move on or wait, by the latter I don't mean passively waiting, but rather staying committed.
I am moving on. This year alone, I am publishing three peer-reviewed papers, organizing a conference, moving overseas, connecting with nonprofits to provide skills to developing countries.
Spiritually, I make a choice regarding physical commitment, even during separation. Do I impose this belief-based choice on others? Far be it for me, other than by personal example, to dictate how others live.
Agree with both of you. I was simply disagreeing with the idea that biology (human) is askew with monogamy.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks, Steve. I recognize that, while many of us might agree with what Maika and I raised if this were purely an intellectual discussion, I also need to be sensitive to the fact that for many here, THIS IS NOT AN INTELLECTUAL DISCUSSION.
Hearts have been broken. Tears have been shed. Lives are in pain. I think we all agree that, regardless of different views on physical intimacy, there is no room in M for betrayal and dishonesty.
Monogamy or not is a choice made by individuals. Both work as long as all others involved in the 'pact' are on the same page. Honesty, transparency, understanding and sticking to your own core values (and of course, staying safe because you have that responsibility to others in the pact) is required. Open relationships cannot work without all of these first being in place.
Paco - I am amazed. For the first months after BD I was barely functional. You have achieved so much and to do so whilst going through your separation is a testament to the strength of your character.
I am over a year post BD and 9 months since he MO. I became open to the idea of 'seeing other people' some time in November, or at least not turning myself into a nun waiting for someone who might not come back. Part of the live my life directive. I am not ready for a relationship but I thought, as long as I was honest about what I could and couldn't offer, then no-one would get hurt. I saw someone for a bit - no strings. I don't feel guilty and no-one got hurt, but I decided it wasn't for me. Not ready for a serious relationship, not of the kind of person who can have a casual one ... the very definition of limbo. In any case, I am friends with the OM, but I do not see a future. I can't see a future with anyone else until I have truly let my H go. Anything else would be dishonest to myself. This has nothing to do with religion (I was raised catholic but don't practice) and everything to do with being true to myself.
