#11 - Piecing is hard!

[SteveLW]

paco, that is good. Your an atypical LBH! Most of us have the fog that our partner was perfect and we are doomed if we lose them, only to be disappointed by the perfect image we had once the fog lifts. I've seen a thousand times if I've seen it once.

Steve,
Forgive me to say this, but I think you also are an atypical LBH because you started piecing very quickly after BD. Sometimes, I wonder if some of your recent difficulties are due to that fact precisely.

For myself and many others, 1 year after BD, we would be separated with minimal or no communication at all. The WAS/WW/MLCer would be in her fog still.

By that time, the LBS has usually woken up from their original fog and realized that WAS is not perfect. Then LBS starts to consider their options, i.e. moving on for good or continuing to DB and wait.

In you case, you may have not had enough time to think about all this because you were thrown into "piecing" almost immediately. And maybe your WW hadn't totally come out of her cycle/fog and still hasn't resolved all her emotional issues to be ready to be a better person and work on the MR.

I don't know... I am making a lot of assumptions about your sitch sorry if I got it completely wrong...

kiro, I think you are absolutely spot on. We went from my uneasiness pre-BD, to BD, to her insisting it was over, to piecing all within 4 months. piecing was just a little over 2 months post BD.

One other thing that makes my sitch atypical is that I initiated BD by discovering her EA. I do not think she ever got into full blown WAW/WW status prior to BD. By the time most LBS realize there is an issue they their S has moved on into full blown WAS/WS mode.

All sitches are different but mine was extremely different.

[kiro]

[quote=kiro] One other thing that makes my sitch atypical is that I initiated BD by discovering her EA. I do not think she ever got into full blown WAW/WW status prior to BD. By the time most LBS realize there is an issue they their S has moved on into full blown WAS/WS mode.

Everywhere I researched on cheating spouses, I found the same recommendation, to not try to stop the A and to let it take its course. In my case, a few days after my W told me she was in love with someone else, I asked her to choose between him and me. She said she chose me, but I'm pretty sure she was lying. (5 months later, she left).

Later on, I started understanding why the recommendation to leave the A take its course. Like everything else about WAS/WW, to be able to reconcile, the WW needs to go through their full cycle and realize by themselves that the grass is not greener on the other side, start seeing their own issues and wanting to come back to the LBS.

If they are pressured by a pursuing LBS, most WWs will run away but I think that some WWs don't have the courage to run and will just give up their fantasy including the A. (This is why, my WW always talked about her courage to leave.). But when they give up their A out of pressure and fear, they continue to fantasize about it and they feel that they have missed out on an opportunity to be happy. In your case, you initiating BD may have caused a similar effect on her. She never got into full blown WW, but she may be still lost.

My 2 cents!

[SteveLW]

[quote=kiro] One other thing that makes my sitch atypical is that I initiated BD by discovering her EA. I do not think she ever got into full blown WAW/WW status prior to BD. By the time most LBS realize there is an issue they their S has moved on into full blown WAS/WS mode.

Everywhere I researched on cheating spouses, I found the same recommendation, to not try to stop the A and to let it take its course. In my case, a few days after my W told me she was in love with someone else, I asked her to choose between him and me. She said she chose me, but I'm pretty sure she was lying. (5 months later, she left).

Later on, I started understanding why the recommendation to leave the A take its course. Like everything else about WAS/WW, to be able to reconcile, the WW needs to go through their full cycle and realize by themselves that the grass is not greener on the other side, start seeing their own issues and wanting to come back to the LBS.

If they are pressured by a pursuing LBS, most WWs will run away but I think that some WWs don't have the courage to run and will just give up their fantasy including the A. (This is why, my WW always talked about her courage to leave.). But when they give up their A out of pressure and fear, they continue to fantasize about it and they feel that they have missed out on an opportunity to be happy. In your case, you initiating BD may have caused a similar effect on her. She never got into full blown WW, but she may be still lost.

My 2 cents!

Kiro, very astute.

In our case my W, when I initiated BD, said she was done, wanted out, and nothing I said or did was going to change it. I initially (first 2 days) went into typical LBS mode. Begging, Pleading. Crying. Moping. On day 3 I remembered DB since this was our second go-round (she had an EA in 2005). And completely backed off. I never insisted she end it. I never forced her to choose. I found out later that about 3 weeks after BD the guy himself (a divorced, loser, ex-con, that lived several states away and was 11 years her junior) ended the EA. She went through a few days of withdrawals. Her waywardness didn't end there because she then went on to try to find OM#2. It started with another guy that was several years younger than her, divorced, and even further away (more states). That never made it out of friendship mode with him sending some inappropriate messages mostly about what he and his GF would do sexually.

So I did not force, or give her an ultimatum. I pulled back (with a few lapses) and let her work through her own crap. About 2 1/2 months in she seemed to come out of her waywardness after a couple weeks of her initiating sex with me a lot. I've stated before that after that couple of weeks she told me the insatiable desire for sex seemed to have dissipated, and that coincided with her waywardness fading, and her committing back to the MR. Including engaging fully in MC and doing the homework the MC gave to us.

She is fully committed again. When she detected a change in me a few weeks ago (when I was going through my internal crisis about not wanting to stay), she was distraught for a couple of days. I took people's advice here and told her I was dealing with some feelings and would work through it and let her know later. I then had a discussion with her about some things I was dealing with (not the wanting to leave part). She was very supportive. Even showed some real strong remorse about what she put us through at the end of last year.

I think she is no longer lost, is all in, and is enjoying MR 2.0.

[LH19]

Like everything else about WAS/WW, to be able to reconcile, the WW needs to go through their full cycle and realize by themselves that the grass is not greener on the other side, start seeing their own issues and wanting to come back to the LBS.

This I believe whole heartily. That's why when the WW/WH says I want a divorce. The only response should be "Do you need help packing your bags"?

[SteveLW]

Like everything else about WAS/WW, to be able to reconcile, the WW needs to go through their full cycle and realize by themselves that the grass is not greener on the other side, start seeing their own issues and wanting to come back to the LBS.

This I believe whole heartily. That's why when the WW/WH says I want a divorce. The only response should be "Do you need help packing your bags"?

Yep. That's what I should have said!

[kiro]

Steve, thanks for sharing. If this is the case, then your sitch seems to be about getting along and fixing many of your MR issues. I think that you should accept that it is Ok that at some point in the future, you both could decide to end the MR as long as you give it your best and that you both come to a mutual agreement. This wouldn't make you a WAS. But you're not there yet.

I agree with others that love is a choice. But feelings are emotions that can go up and down because they're influenced by many things, including hormonal changes, stress, etc. I'd recommend working on your MR habits and the emotional connection by adding loving and kind acts and not worrying about complicated relationship issues at this point. Once you implement more loving habits (date nights, gifts, hugging, etc.) and you feel closer to each other emotionally, you can then address certain issues such as what you described about your W.

If later on, after all emotions have calmed down and you both still think that you will be happier separately, then you can talk about it openly. I'm sure you know that already...

[SteveLW]

Thank kiro.

I do think that her and married each other for probably not the right reasons. Me because I only loved one other girl enough to consider marrying her. Her because she was getting towards thirty, and wanted marriage and kids. Obviously people marry for wide and varied reasons, but I think it should be more about the other person and what they bring to the table (the right things obviously) and less about things related to yourself.

As I said before, I was always looking for someone I was crazy about. In hindsight, we should be looking for someone that is crazy about us.

[kiro]

Well, Steve, it is true that you are starting to sound like a WAS

I am deciding deliberately to follow a theory that says that love is a choice and that it's not about finding the right person but about learning to love the person we found.

I obviously have no proof that this is the best theory, but I tell myself if I was able to have intense love toward my W at least twice the first few years when we first met and then once she BD'ed me, this means that she is a person I could love again and again. And I also loved her during our MR, although the feelings were not as intense.

And it is the same for her feelings. I know she loved me intensely when we first met, but over time her feelings changed.

I don't believe that 2 people need to be 100% compatible in order to love each other and live happily, but at least they need to share some basic beliefs and values.

But MR is not a prison. If you feel like that, and she also feels the same, then maybe you should consider a trial separation for a few months.

And I agree with you that it is important to be with someone who is crazy about you, which doesn't necessarily mean intense feelings. It just means someone who believes wholeheartedly that she wants to be with you. Before BD, I never doubted that she wanted to be with me. I was naive but that's what I believed, and so I was happy.

[SteveLW]

Maybe my last post made it sound more dire than I intended. I have done a lot of analysis over the last year. I think there were some right reasons we married each other as well. You said: "I don't believe that 2 people need to be 100% compatible in order to love each other and live happily, but at least they need to share some basic beliefs and values. " This was us.

When she went wayward, those beliefs and values went out the window. But they are back now, at least seem to be.

Yes I think I was starting to think a bit like a walkaway. I think I am backed away from that now. But yeah, I agree with you. Instead of finding some one you love, we should love the one we found. (Another anti-divorce expert says that all the time.)

Thanks Kiro, please keep your insights coming!

[kiro]

Here is 1 more thought (hopefully I am not hijacking your thread):

If I had never married my W and I met her (the way she was before BD) for the first time now, maybe I wouldn't be attracted to her because, as you say, I changed and what I want now is different from what I wanted 20 years ago.

What I am trying to say is that I choose to love her because she is my W and not because of who she is. And I expected her to do the same toward me. This is what I call a good MR. Two people who choose to love each other, renew their love every day, and choose not to look at anyone else. This is a learned behaviour, which means we have to fight our impulses and our natural inclinations.

As long as we are married and we are both reciprocating that, it works and we can be happy. But when we find out that our partner chose to betray that unspoken deal, everything changes and all options are on the table.

At that point, the deal is off and we don't have to look at that person as our S but as one person among million others. I think the WAS goes through a similar train of thought but they do it while still married. If that train of thought takes over your mind, you're going on a wrong track...