Just reading what Vapo said. Yeah the shark eyes I get those from my W from time to time.The WS looks right through you with no emotion, like you are nothing. I don't know how common it is, but my W sometimes gives me this sneer that is hard to describe other than is just makes me feel like some total piece of lowlife garbage. It makes your spidey senses tingle when the WS gives you those looks.
Just to add to Vapo, symptoms from my sitch were instead of exercise she barely would eat. They surrounded themselves with new enabler friends and other toxic people. Their head is so far up their a$$ they act punch drunk.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Typical of a wayward wife situation. They seem to crave for that buzz. The buzz of slight intoxication, the buzz of a secret affair, some even start experimenting with lighter drugs (weed,...). The point is they really sound, look and act like they are possessed. The telltale sign is the eyes, when the look in their eyes is empty. This really is quite terrifying. This phenomenon is called shark eyes, pretty much everyone describes the empty eyes. Another couple of symptoms are:
- obsessive exercise, - completely different look (radically different hair style, different youngish clothes, tattoos, piercings,...), - taking up learning a new musical instrument, - if their parents had marital problems, it is quite likely that they will also, - drinking, - smoking, - looking up long lost friends or boyfriends from years ago. .
Holy sh!t, my W has done the first 3! The completely different look thing as been more recent. She's had LASIK yet is now wearing frames.
Last edited by Wanted1; 01/08/1907:37 PM.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
A WS/WAS/MLC who is struggling probably mentally, but definitely emotionally. The people that I know who would drink in the shower were typically alcoholics and/or people using it as a coping mechanism.
My W who was never much of a drinker started going out to the bars and driving home intoxicated. No idea if she still does it now as she lives in her own house. Just be aware.
W’s not closer to there, yet. But I’m sure she’s struggling emotionally and probably also mentally, too.
If / when I have a drink, it would usually be out in the open. MBR, or in the living room, or maybe while cleaning in the kitchen (?) Point is, it would be out in the open.
Originally Posted by Vapo
Typical of a wayward wife situation. They seem to crave for that buzz. The buzz of slight intoxication, the buzz of a secret affair, some even start experimenting with lighter drugs (weed,...). The point is they really sound, look and act like they are possessed. The telltale sign is the eyes, when the look in their eyes is empty. This really is quite terrifying. This phenomenon is called shark eyes, pretty much everyone describes the empty eyes. Another couple of symptoms are:
- obsessive exercise, - completely different look (radically different hair style, different youngish clothes, tattoos, piercings,...), - taking up learning a new musical instrument, - if their parents had marital problems, it is quite likely that they will also, - drinking, - smoking, - looking up long lost friends or boyfriends from years ago. .
I really haven’t seen the ‘shark eyes,’ but I also haven’t looked for it. Though I’ve been trying to look her in the eyes more, but that is rather hard for me right now (also been trying to look her in the eyes and think ‘ILY’ while doing that).
She has been getting more into exercise (wouldn’t say obsessive)—she was really fit / really good shape before pregnancy because she was trying to pass the physical fit test for a promotion. She looked great and was in great shape, and she wants to get back into that shape, just to be that fit / strong again.
W and I both have parents who have had problems—hers D’ed when she was around 6-ish, mine split when I was 22 but there were problems pretty much the whole time, tbh. W believes that she will be much better off—it worked for her parents, she came out fine (?), and her parents get along / work together so WHY CAN’T WE? I was hoping I would be different, and that we would be different—shows you what I know.
Also, the drinking. That’s pretty much it that I see / know. Who knows about long-lost friends or BFs, though.
But no question—she seems totally different from the W that I married—I wouldn’t quite say possessed, but just way different.
Even with her tone towards me last night—in conversation, but also in the text “I need an answer....” and “I told you to tell me....”
Typical of a wayward wife situation. They seem to crave for that buzz. The buzz of slight intoxication, the buzz of a secret affair, some even start experimenting with lighter drugs (weed,...). The point is they really sound, look and act like they are possessed. The telltale sign is the eyes, when the look in their eyes is empty. This really is quite terrifying. This phenomenon is called shark eyes, pretty much everyone describes the empty eyes. Another couple of symptoms are:
- obsessive exercise, - completely different look (radically different hair style, different youngish clothes, tattoos, piercings,...), - taking up learning a new musical instrument, - if their parents had marital problems, it is quite likely that they will also, - drinking, - smoking, - looking up long lost friends or boyfriends from years ago. .
Holy sh!t, my W has done the first 3! The completely different look thing as been more recent. She's had LASIK yet is now wearing frames.
Wanted, My W also went and got frames (she only wears them occasionally) post BD despite having had lasik.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Typical of a wayward wife situation. They seem to crave for that buzz. The buzz of slight intoxication, the buzz of a secret affair, some even start experimenting with lighter drugs (weed,...). The point is they really sound, look and act like they are possessed. The telltale sign is the eyes, when the look in their eyes is empty. This really is quite terrifying. This phenomenon is called shark eyes, pretty much everyone describes the empty eyes. Another couple of symptoms are:
- obsessive exercise, - completely different look (radically different hair style, different youngish clothes, tattoos, piercings,...), - taking up learning a new musical instrument, - if their parents had marital problems, it is quite likely that they will also, - drinking, - smoking, - looking up long lost friends or boyfriends from years ago. .
Holy sh!t, my W has done the first 3! The completely different look thing as been more recent. She's had LASIK yet is now wearing frames.
Wanted, My W also went and got frames (she only wears them occasionally) post BD despite having had lasik.
Wow! Is there a WW forum like this that we don't know about that they all discuss the don'ts together? They sure has hell aren't discussing the do's!
Last edited by Wanted1; 01/08/1908:48 PM.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
I'm just trying to get caught up on things. Your situation is flying 100 mph right now. So I'll pick off the big points.
Originally Posted by Bo562
In her mind, the kids would stay at our current place of residence, and then we rent an efficiency and basically trade off according to the schedule. Certain nights one is with the kids, the other is alone back at the other place. She handed me a paper copy and will email me a copy. I know I know—how long has that been in the works? She wants my input on this, and then we get the ball rolling on finding the other place (especially once Ms. Federal Employee starts drawing a paycheck again because of the shutdown), and then she will basically sue for divorce in time. She wants to keep the lawyers out of it as much as possible—so to do as much before hand before the official paperwork gets drawn up. She also wants me to cooperate and not draw this out.
Agree to this if you want to feel like garbage and serve up cake every day.
Originally Posted by Bo562
I tried validating as much as I could, and I also tried to put things off by saying ‘let me think about that.’ She called me out on my ‘therapy talk’ at one point. Lovely.
Don't take $h!+ from anyone. I'd have told to shove her attitude straight where the sun doesn't shine. She's throwing a lot at you, it is going to take time to figure it out.
Originally Posted by Bo562
but I’d also effectively BE GIVING HER FREE CHILD CARE.
At that point, who cares what she's doing? You'd be done. Only bitter, mean people still worry about their exes like that. My dad does it, it's super annoying and petty. Anyways, you're out there worrying about things that haven't happened.
You're angry, bitter, and over analyzing lots. When you go to mass, try not to relate everything to your marriage or W. I had that problem too and it keeps you from focusing on mass.
You contradict yourself as well. You say the silence is awkward, but then when she makes small talk that you "aren't having it". So you are confusing her. Why? B/c you're emotional. You need to give up on what you can't control, and realize that you can't control it - therefore why get worked up over it. It's like driving in traffic. There's lots of annoying people doing annoying things and yelling and getting mad at them only makes your drive worse. So stop getting mad at them and just expect them to do these things.
If you're still in thee house, maybe you can help your W or be a little more friendly.
Originally Posted by Bo562
“I really did not appreciate you not texting me back about getting the boys. I also really don’t like the non-answers, or dancing around questions or evading answers. When I ask you a question, I want a direct answer.”
She then tells me that it’s always been that way with me, that things don’t register with me or I don’t get it, and that it makes her so upset.
Me, attempting to validate: I can see that it makes you really upset.
W then accuses me doing it to get back at her, and told me that no matter where our paths lead in life, we will need to work together.
If you're W thinks you are a bad communicator, and most guys are, then pull a 180 there. Seriously. I think I know what she is talking about. Drill this into your head. Your next R, whether with your W or someone else, will be greatly served if you make these improvements.
Every girl I ever dated taught me something about being a better person to R with, whether it was sexually, emotionally, or mentally. It's on you to learn from them. And get better at validating. It needs to sound more natural.
As for getting a lawyer, she hasn't filed so you don't need one yet. But go ahead and consult several and see what they say. A lot of initial consultations are free.
You need to get out a couple nights a week to the bar or join a league or something. If you want to save yourself and your marriage your W needs to see and feel you actually moving on with your life. Quit worrying about her all the time and make yourself happy, stop being bitter, and treat her with respect. GAL, quit worrying that you don't have control over her. This is the summary of everything you posted. Almost every problem you've wrote about here can be solved by this. And if you have the book, read the LRT section.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Agree to this if you want to feel like garbage and serve up cake every day.
I think the idea of ‘bird-nesting’ is absolute trash. Why should I have to pay for / maintain 2 residences because she wants out? It totally sounds like cake-eating because it totally is cake-eating. That’s mostly what I want to consult with an L for. She wants out, she needs to leave. If she’s so concerned about the kids, maybe don’t get a divorce?
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
At that point, who cares what she's doing? You'd be done. Only bitter, mean people still worry about their exes like that. My dad does it, it's super annoying and petty. Anyways, you're out there worrying about things that haven't happened.
Thanks to that, I’m starting tonight to concern myself less and less with what she does. Whenever I find myself thinking about ‘oh she seems like her old self’ or ‘oh what’s she gonna do when...’ I change the subject in my head. I say to myself “Stop it, Bo. Just don’t worry about her. She’s not worried about you.” Trying to detach like that.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
You're angry, bitter, and over analyzing lots.
Yeah, pretty much. Gotta change that.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
You contradict yourself as well. You say the silence is awkward, but then when she makes small talk that you "aren't having it". So you are confusing her. Why? B/c you're emotional. You need to give up on what you can't control, and realize that you can't control it - therefore why get worked up over it. It's like driving in traffic. There's lots of annoying people doing annoying things and yelling and getting mad at them only makes your drive worse. So stop getting mad at them and just expect them to do these things.
I think I admitted to a self-contradiction in my post about that, but I know I can’t lose my cool because of her.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
If you're still in thee house, maybe you can help your W or be a little more friendly.
Still in the house. I help make dinner, help out where I can, and I wash bottles / pump parts—but that one is for YS (she only benefits indirectly—she needs the pump parts for YS). It may seem petty and rude, but I don’t serve her dinner. She wants a husband, she needs to treat me like one, and she’s not doing that. No thanks.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
As for getting a lawyer, she hasn't filed so you don't need one yet. But go ahead and consult several and see what they say. A lot of initial consultations are free.
You need to get out a couple nights a week to the bar or join a league or something. If you want to save yourself and your marriage your W needs to see and feel you actually moving on with your life. Quit worrying about her all the time and make yourself happy, stop being bitter, and treat her with respect. GAL, quit worrying that you don't have control over her. This is the summary of everything you posted. Almost every problem you've wrote about here can be solved by this. And if you have the book, read the LRT section.
Okay, good to hear about getting an L right now. I’ve apparently been checking the wrong places for an initial consult—they’re looking at a couple hundred dollars for the consult. Yikes. My employee has an EAP, may look there too.
GAL needs to happen more. You’re right that I need to stop worrying about her—she clearly isn’t worried or doesn’t care about me.
The thing about GAL is, and this may sound very NGS, but what about the kids? I help with the kids at night, especially the youngest, and I don’t want to miss time with them if I can help it. Won’t she get all bent out of shape that I’m not around? But then again, she’s trying to fire me anyway—she only wants me around on her terms.
Admittedly, it is kinda hard to treat her with respect right now, with what she is trying to do to me and our family. I have very little respect towards all that. But I need to keep in mind showing her happiness and contentment, although it’s really difficult right now.
I do have the book, and read LRT earlier today. I’ll need to keep reading it and implement it.
Did 20 minutes on the stationary bike at school today, and did 40 push-ups. I put aside the sit-ups because my back has been bothering me.
I’ve also been trying to be warmer towards W, although it is hard.
Trying to validate by asking her about the last thing (or things) she said.
Great Moments in Parental Leadership and Validation: I went to go make OS’ lunch for school, and W comes over and tells me that she’s got it. I told her that “I got this, thanks—I can do this.” And then W gets all “I don’t want you to be up late because I know you *always* have schoolwork and you always complain about being up so late and blah blah blah.” I told her that I heard what she is saying, but that it’s okay, I can do this.
We also had a discussion earlier tonight, while I was making OS’ lunch. W asked me if I reviewed the parenting plan. I told her that I started to do that.
She wants to know when I’ll have it reviewed. I told her that I will continue to review it and when it is reviewed it is reviewed.
She wants to know when she will have an answer. A week, a month, never? I told that I will continue to review it and when I am ready I will get back with her.
W then goes on about how I *always* (there’s that word again) say I’m gonna do things but then I never actually follow up. I have looked it over, briefly.
(What I’m hearing from her are complaints and accusations. I could also sense some hostility from her—I went to reach for a container to put something in and she stuck out her hand forcefully towards the containers.)
I said this in an earlier post, but I think the idea of ‘bird-nesting’ that she proposes is laughable. So we’re supposed to maintain 2 residences, and rotate between them? She wants out, why doesn’t she leave? LOL.
She wants to get things moving, because she just wants to be done, and she’s wanted to be done for a while. She told me that the sooner, the better, because according to her it takes 6-9 months to get things through the courts.
She also wants to go to her training in September—she’s talked about putting it off, but she really really wants to do that training. Especially because there might be an opening with some people she used to work with / for—wouldn’t want to miss that if it opens. I know I probably shouldn’t really care, but.....
I tried to validate better this evening: “I understand why you would feel that way, but....”; “I can see what you believe that and....” etc. Tried to be more natural about it.
I know, I know—believe nothing they say, but: It’s weird hearing that she says she wants to be done. What’s the rush? Am I that terrible of a partner? I can’t help but feel a bit sad about that. But between our convo and the parenting plan, it’s clear to me she’s done her homework. I wonder what else there is going on here.
Part of me wonders if I want to be done, too, tbh.
I said this in an earlier post, but I think the idea of ‘bird-nesting’ that she proposes is laughable. So we’re supposed to maintain 2 residences, and rotate between them? She wants out, why doesn’t she leave? LOL.
Hmm, If you split up, you'd also be supporting 2 residences, so I do not see this as a problem.
Originally Posted by Bo562
I know, I know—believe nothing they say, but: It’s weird hearing that she says she wants to be done. What’s the rush? Am I that terrible of a partner? I can’t help but feel a bit sad about that. But between our convo and the parenting plan, it’s clear to me she’s done her homework. I wonder what else there is going on here.
Tu put is simply, she wants to be done, so she can start the next chapter of her "fairy tale". I know this $hit is hard and one cannot help but to question oneself. Did you make mistakes? Sure you did. could you have been a better husband and a better father? Sure you could. You are not perfect, no one is. Did your actions warrant her abandoning the marriage? Deffo not. She clearly forgot that line "...to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part...". She most deffo forgot the worse part and especially the until death do us part. So to answer your question, no, you most probably have NOT been that $hitty husband to warrant any of it.
Times will come when you will be doubting yourself and in my recollection these feelings come in waves, but the further along you are, the less they will affect you. You have to step up your game and become the best dad you can and you also have to better yourself. You have room for improvement, we all have that.
