Uncertain of What I Have (Thread 4)

[Bo562]

But that is how she feels too. Of course you can argue that it makes no sense and isn't fair but we're talking about FEELINGS. The way she feels right now is extremely negative towards you and the M and in her eyes it is all your fault. You are feeling hurt now, well she is probably thinking "welcome to the club, I've been feeling hurt for years and you just ignored it". So treating her poorly is just feeding into her perception that you are the problem, that you will never change, and that S or D is the only option.

Right. I shouldn’t read too much into feelings. She has told me in the past what she has been unhappy with, and I either could not or would not change. She would tell me what she is feeling so ‘her conscience would be clear,’ and I would ask her what that would mean, and she would tell me that it would mean her conscience would be clear.

I’ll do my best to not treat her poorly starting now.

But inside they are really struggling. I remember people here telling me that about my ex and I would think "yeah right, you don't see her every day like I do, she is 100% resolute". Much later she told me that she cried in private every single day for months after BD. I was stunned, why was SHE crying? Was this not exactly what she wanted? But the thing is, they are really confused. They don't know what they want, but they think once they pull that trigger then they need to go through with it. But they second-guess themselves constantly. So if you are mean/ cold/ indifferent/ rude you are affirming that ending the M is the proper course of action. But if you are kind, understanding and accommodating, it contradicts their negative feelings towards you. It doesn't change their mind right away but it paves the way for them to change their mind.

I’ve wondered about this. I wonder if she is crying / conflicted about this—the sniffling I would hear, the drinks in the shower.

But to me it looks like she wants this no matter what. I’m home sick today with a stomach bug (and for me, what feels like a preview of life without her—home by myself, no one to take care of me, W relatively indifferent towards my illness), and W asked me to review the parenting plan doc in more depth. She told me she wants our new arrangements to start by March. To me, this tells me that she wants to move on STAT.

I do want her to change her mind about me, so I’ll start being better towards her.

A lot of LBS's say similar things- why should I be understanding and accommodating if she's not reciprocating. And yes, it is tough! But if you want someone else to change you don't tell them to change X, Y and Z. You change YOURSELF first. And even if your changes don't change her, you are still a better person for it, and better equipped for the next R.

Didn’t mean to come across that way, but I shouldn’t keep score in my head with her. But for me, I have been trying to change the part of myself about making ‘you’ statements or escalating in an argument. I’m not doing those things anymore, hence the amateurish attempts at validating, so I at least try not to escalate or get ‘baited’ into something.

Yes, again this is about her feelings and perceptions. That is how she feels RIGHT NOW. That can and will change later whether you recon or not. When you read some of the piecing threads it's quite common for a WAS to say "I felt that way at the time, but now looking back I have no idea WHY I felt that way". So for now you just have to take your lumps. Let her feel that way, all you can do is be true to yourself and let her sort things out over time

Ah, the WAS fog. Be the lighthouse. You’re right, let her feel whatever she feels and be true to myself. I do hope that one day she looks back and realizes that she made a huge mistake. I’ll work on myself and try to prove her wrong about me. It’s still hard not to feel like a POS husband, though, but I need to GET OVER IT.

Be patient. There's no rush to shove her out the door, that will not bring the relief you're hoping for. Eventually you'll sort through these confusing feelings you're going through and get back to normal, THEN you'll be able to decide what the best course of action is. When I went through my sitch it just seemed to drag on and on and on like being stuck in purgatory. But now years later? It seems like it all happened so fast.

Believe me, I don’t want to shove her out the door, even though I get the impression that she wants the same. It already feels like it’s happening so fast—she wants our new living arrangements by March. Ugh.

This isn't about what you did yesterday, it's about what you CAN do today and tomorrow, etc. going forward. Yesterday I mentioned in another thread that if you did 180's on EVERYTHING from day one then it would just look fake to your W, like tricks to get her back. But if you slowly improve and do more and more 180's over time, then it looks more genuine. So don't sweat it, just keep working on those changes.

A very Christian perspective, even if it’s not meant like that. The idea of forgiveness—not about yesterday, but about today and tomorrow.

I tried 180s really quick back in the spring, and she thought it was fake.

I have been trying to make the changes, validate, detach and GAL where I can, even though it often looks / feels amateurish and like it’s not helping. Day by day.

Thank you for the encouragement, A/S.

[AnotherStander]

But to me it looks like she wants this no matter what.

Yes, that is the outward appearance that all WAS's project. As I said, what is on the inside is a completely different matter.

She told me she wants our new arrangements to start by March. To me, this tells me that she wants to move on STAT.

Right, she is resolute that it's the right thing to do. This is the way it will be for quite some time. Later she may change her mind. A lot of LBS's struggle with this, that "later" can be different than "now". But she changed her mind once from wanting to be married to not wanting to, so why do you think she can't change it back again.

It’s still hard not to feel like a POS husband, though, but I need to GET OVER IT.

Well that's part of it is getting over the guilt and the feeling that we need to punish ourselves. It comes with time as does the rebuilding of our self-esteem.

A very Christian perspective, even if it’s not meant like that. The idea of forgiveness—not about yesterday, but about today and tomorrow.

I think whether someone believes in Jesus or not, the idea of the way he lived is certainly something to admire and strive for. In the face of terrible persecution and very real threats of death he never preached anything but forgiveness and love. I really do think about that a lot, when faced with some roadblock I ask myself the classic WWJD. I think even those who do not believe should at least picture someone they admire who always handles situations with confidence, respect, love and honor and ask themselves what would that person do to deal with a particular situation and then act accordingly.

I tried 180s really quick back in the spring, and she thought it was fake.

Yeah, they never believe them at first. We typically start out doing them while gauging our WAS for a response, but eventually we give up on that and just do them for ourselves.

I have been trying to make the changes, validate, detach and GAL where I can, even though it often looks / feels amateurish and like it’s not helping. Day by day.

Well one of the odd things about DB'ing is because you are kind of following steps from the books and advice from here it DOES feel like you're just doing tricks. Especially with validating, I used to think "oh man she is going to see right through this and think it's fake." But when you keep it up it becomes second nature and feels more natural. So keep at it!

[Bo562]

Yes, that is the outward appearance that all WAS's project. As I said, what is on the inside is a completely different matter.

Right, she is resolute that it's the right thing to do. This is the way it will be for quite some time. Later she may change her mind. A lot of LBS's struggle with this, that "later" can be different than "now". But she changed her mind once from wanting to be married to not wanting to, so why do you think she can't change it back again.

You’re right, that she *may* change her mind later, and that *later* is different from *now*.

I don’t have a very good reason for why she can’t change her mind again. I know this is ‘feelings,’ but to me she seems too far ‘gone,’ if that makes sense. She was so hot after marrying me, and now it’s this—that I F’ed this up so bad? (I know, I know—just feelings, but man these are powerful).

Well one of the odd things about DB'ing is because you are kind of following steps from the books and advice from here it DOES feel like you're just doing tricks. Especially with validating, I used to think "oh man she is going to see right through this and think it's fake." But when you keep it up it becomes second nature and feels more natural. So keep at it!

It does feel like ‘tricks,’ but one thing that is coming more into my mind recently is the idea of doing this for myself—breaking some of the patterns of behavior I used to be engaged in (knowingly or unknowingly). What I do know is that I am trying to work on myself, and have myself be a better person—for myself, but also whether it is for W, or for someone else down the road, hopefully (either one would be nice).

[Bo562]

/journaling

W and I are both home today. W has the stomach bug that I caught; I’m home to give myself some more rest, as well as my insides are telling me to stay home in case the boys get sick and they need me. W asked me to drop off the boys; and I’m pretty sure I’ll be the one to pick them up, and that’s okay.

Made an appt. with an L for Monday afternoon—initial consultation. Gonna bring the parenting plan doc—the thought that has occurred to me recently, especially with W wanting to get our new living arrangements started around March is: hey, why should I accept living in my current place half-time without the S / D anywhere close to being final yet? This document is not legally binding—not been filed with a court, so what’s her rush? Why should I give up my claim to being here full-time any sooner than I absolutely need to if she is the one who wants out?

Any other suggestions on questions for the L? Thank you!

[Twofeet]

Personally, I would not implement any child plan that requires you to leave the house until the decree is finalized. I would also start divorce journaling now. Is it a true 50/50 parenting split or is there a custodial parent? Can either of you afford your place solo? Its sounds like she wants this to be as amicable as possible which is good. However, you need to be in the mindset of putting yourself and your boys first. You don't have to accept her plan, there may be other options neither of you have thought about. Hopefully, she comes around and it doesnt go to D, but if it does treat it like the most important business transaction of your life, as it very well may be.

[AnotherStander]

Made an appt. with an L for Monday afternoon—initial consultation. Gonna bring the parenting plan doc—the thought that has occurred to me recently, especially with W wanting to get our new living arrangements started around March is: hey, why should I accept living in my current place half-time without the S / D anywhere close to being final yet?

What is the parenting plan she gave you? Is this the nesting thing you mentioned before? If so, I thought that was a definite "no" from you?

This document is not legally binding—not been filed with a court, so what’s her rush? Why should I give up my claim to being here full-time any sooner than I absolutely need to if she is the one who wants out?

Well, if she leaves then you've got to work something out whether it's "legally binding" or not. Here in TX there is no legal "separation", only D. So when my ex left we had to work out between ourselves what the kid visitation would be and financial support. In our case it was a 50-50 visitation and since I was staying in the house we agreed that mine would be the "primary residence" on the school paperwork. The only financial split was regarding the kids' health insurance, since my ex was carrying it I agreed to pay her half of that cost monthly. If I remember right I think we did draft up a document for this just so we would both have a record of it. We carried the same agreement over into the D, but of course had to also work out splitting the equity in the house and dividing up other assets.

[Bo562]

Personally, I would not implement any child plan that requires you to leave the house until the decree is finalized.

This is what I’m thinking / feeling more and more.

I would also start divorce journaling now.

?????? Please explain / clarify.

Is it a true 50/50 parenting split or is there a custodial parent?

I believe it would be 50/50; I’d have to double-check to see if there is a custodial parent, but I do remember something about for taxes her being ‘head of household.’ Different concept, I know.

Can either of you afford your place solo?

Don’t think so. I’ve thought S / D always would be a terrible idea for us, especially financially—but I know it’s not about what either of us think right now. We live in a very good public school system, and it would be good to be here for OS, but....we’ll see.

Its sounds like she wants this to be as amicable as possible which is good. However, you need to be in the mindset of putting yourself and your boys first. You don't have to accept her plan, there may be other options neither of you have thought about. Hopefully, she comes around and it doesnt go to D, but if it does treat it like the most important business transaction of your life, as it very well may be.

Yes, she wants to keep this is amicable as possible—hence doing this plan ahead of time. Also behind her mindset of ‘keeping lawyers out of it as much as possible.’

But at this point I need to keep myself and the boys first.

She admits as much that I don’t have to accept her plan as it is.....and has asked me to review it and ask for changes.

My main question right now is: Why should I have to leave before any S / D is final?

I hope she comes around, too—but like I’ve said, it sure doesn’t feel that way right now.

[Bo562]

What is the parenting plan she gave you? Is this the nesting thing you mentioned before? If so, I thought that was a definite "no" from you?

Correct—this is the ‘bird-nesting’ proposal she gave me last week. But yeah, we’ll have to work something out, no matter what.

I’m conflicted on how I feel about it—hence meeting with a lawyer to review my options. But my primary question right now is: why should I give up residence here half-time before everything goes final?

[Twofeet]

Bo,

Google divorce journal/custody journal. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Why should she claim head of household does she make more or less than you? I am not a L so be sure to talk to the L about HoH, custodial parents, joint and legal custody AND how it relates to your sitch. Also be sure to visit your CPA and or financial advisor if need be. I ran the preliminary decree through the my CPA to check calculations and tax implications.

Can you stay in your school system if you have to move out? Can you send your S to the elementary parochial schools for free? I had a neighbor who taught Catholic HS and his kids got to go to the feeder elementary schools and the HS for free.

[TJT]

What I do know is that I am trying to work on myself, and have myself be a better person—for myself, but also whether it is for W, or for someone else down the road, hopefully (either one would be nice).

Bo, just caught up and wanted to let you know that while your sentence above may seem insignificant, I am happy for you that you are open to having a good relationship, even if that means it may be with someone else.

I know you would no doubt still mourn the M with your current W in any case, but being open to a different future is a healthy step that takes a lot for all of us to get to.

Also, I would agree with you on NOT moving out of your marital home before there's anything in writing. Everything I've read about being the first to move out points to it being a bad idea, even if you aren't going to ultimately keep it, but your lawyer should definitely be able to confirm based on your specific situation.