Interesting that your subconscious used the turtle. Just read an article about how Mackenzie Bezos had been having turtle themed dreams while suspicious of Jeff Bezos' infidelity. Apparently "Turtles in a dream are supposedly an indication of closed personality and suggest a period of slow progress in someone’s life." I am not a big dream theorist. I believe that the human subconscious and psyche is a very complicated ecosystem, and as such it is very difficult to ascertain any true meaning to a series of random images and dialogue. Dreams, to me, are the brain trying to dump media that it no longer finds valuable. That is why they are often asymmetrical and nonsensical. It gives the delusion of symbolic meaning when in reality it is is just a series of random memories being expelled from the brain's RAM.
But it was an interesting coincidence that I read about that yesterday, and then you mentioned your mental imagery during personal invocation.
Last edited by Steve85; 01/14/1904:30 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Read something from Gerda a few minutes ago that resonated: Wife’s journey is her own, not mine.
For her own happiness, I hope W accepts neither I nor anyone else can respond emotionally to the world according to her expectations. Once she does, it would bring so much freedom to both of us.
I am ALWAYS accountable for my actions and behavior. On the other hand, emotions are non-negotiable: you have them, you bring awareness to them.
I say this after an evening of W talking about the difficulties her sister was having with their mom, to a point of rudeness.
I have always been kind and gentle with my Mother-In-Law, whom I love dearly and whom I still see regularly. MIL lived with us for more than a year. I cooked for her everyday, drove her around for her errands, and engaged her in conversation. There were times I felt MIL took me for granted, but I never expressed disrespect.
But W demanded more. W wanted a constant flow of warmth and joviality, even during those times I felt I was being taken for granted.
If W cannot appreciate the kindness and goodness in my actions; and
if W insists I conform my emotional response to the world to hers; then
it becomes increasingly easier for me to detach and to move on.
Read something from Gerda a few minutes ago that resonated: Wife’s journey is her own, not mine.
For her own happiness, I hope W accepts neither I nor anyone else can respond emotionally to the world according to her expectations. Once she does, it would bring so much freedom to both of us.
So what is your plan if she doesn't accept this?
Originally Posted by paco123
I am ALWAYS accountable for my actions and behavior. On the other hand, emotions are non-negotiable: you have them, you bring awareness to them.
I say this after an evening of W talking about the difficulties her sister was having with their mom, to a point of rudeness.
I have always been kind and gentle with my Mother-In-Law, whom I love dearly and whom I still see regularly. MIL lived with us for more than a year. I cooked for her everyday, drove her around for her errands, and engaged her in conversation. There were times I felt MIL took me for granted, but I never expressed disrespect.
But W demanded more. W wanted a constant flow of warmth and joviality, even during those times I felt I was being taken for granted.
[quote=paco123] If W cannot appreciate the kindness and goodness in my actions; and
if W insists I conform my emotional response to the world to hers; then
it becomes increasingly easier for me to detach and to move on.
I see two ifs and only one then. And the then is an abstract. What ACTION will you take. How are you going to behave that will demand this from her, and have a real consequence if niether if occurs?
I am seeing a boundary here without an activity on your part should that boundary be breached.
Last edited by Steve85; 02/07/1901:28 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As I write this, I am on my way to my next adventure in the tropics to work. I fly out tonight.
I am in a rather strange situation: kids are grown; finances are secure; I can select what I want to do and where.
I make no demands of W. She will change or she will not.
I am moving on to a dream we had shared, which is to do meaningful work with people in developing countries. MY journey continues. She can choose to join me or not.
I am also discovering that despite my passing resemblance to the Elephant Man and a savoir faire that is less Cary Grant and more Harpo Marx, women actually enjoy my company. I've made it clear to them I am only interested in friendship for now.
So, Steve, to be perfectly clear: life goes on; I still love W; I understand her midlife transition may not lead my way; if she wants a D, she will have to do the heavy lifting. If I meet someone during my adventures, that's the risk she took.
paco, be careful. Often times LBSs see their path forward as being with a new person. However, if you haven't done the work (DBing) then you could end up right back here in 2-3 years. So make sure to the the opportunity you've been given to take stock, and be the best paco you can be for the next person, whether that is your W or not.
Also, to quote Frank Barone:
"What's wrong with you? Didn't I teach you anything? When you have a problem with your woman you don't go out and get another one. Now you just have two problems!"
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks. I am perfectly clear with other women that I still love my wife.
And yes, I've got male friends as well. But I do treasure my female friends...both existing ones and the ones I am meeting. I don't seek out the latter. We meet quite organically and we hit it off. They say they find my openness refreshing.
Apropos of my earlier post about W's insistence on emotional conformity, it's ironic: when we first started dating, W told me she was attracted to me because I was the most emotionally accessible man she'd ever met. But as I clarified to W during a recent conversation, I don't think she should pick and choose emotional accessibility. I can't be authentic with emotions she finds comfortable and shut down those she finds uncomfortable. And God knows I'm not a mind-reader, nor do I want to squelch my spontaneity by trying to anticipate whether my emotions are one or the other.
The wife of one of my best friends (she is a braniac, public health professional) called estrogen the "patience hormone." When it begins to wane, studies show people are less willing to tolerate what they used to. As our friend Kiro (I miss him and hope he is okay and lurking) said, there is much empirical work to be done on researching mid-life relationships.
So, for me, part of riding the wave is trying to understand W's midlife transitions. I trust and respect her enough to know she is not going through this maliciously.
