J - you're totally right. This is so much of a reflection of who exW is than me. Your buddy by all accounts had all the markers of what we would call 'success' but his W still walked out. Good on her to reflect on her decision that went just beyond her and to other people and look at the larger picture. And that also goes to the point of how you could DB perfectly and they spouse still wouldn't come back - so much of that is on that spouse rather than the LBS.
I'm good with everything and I've let go. I've done much much work on personal growth and I see exW still in the same emotional and mental space during BD. Anger has lessened but she hasn't faced herself, her fears, her shortcomings, and is still a hostage to her insecurities. I can't have her back like that. And if she's seeking a true relationship with real connection, she's gotta work on her $hit. I don't know if she ever will, or if it will be too late for her by that time. A crisis is also an opportunity - I took that as an opportunity and I am better off for it.
Just remember M it is all relative to the women and her expectations. Yes, he had all the markers but his W didn't know anything different. Hell, they both have the same job and essentially have the same salary. To her it wasn't about the money, or their house, or their stuff, or their vacations, etc. it was about how she felt. None of it mattered to her. I have known my best friend since 1st grade, good dude, parents are still married, he is easy going, laid back, never been arrested, great job, jacked, no emotional issues, baggage, etc. but his wife was done.
Now he is has dove in deep on the whole Blue Pill vs Red Pill discussion and he realized that by being so Blue Pill he killed the attraction. Most women don't give a second chance, he was lucky that he got one and he knows it.
Most women only care if you can financially support yourself, emotionally stable, a good father, etc.. You don't have to be a millionaire or make 6 figures to attract beautiful women. Being comfortable and confident around them is 1/2 the battle. You should read the Rational Male it is a really good read.
I don't discredit anyone on this board that got their wives or their husbands to return. IMO though it is more about the person leaving than it is about the LBS and their DBing efforts. Sure it puts you in the best possible position but it still all falls on the person who wanted out.
Yeah I agree that it is all about the person leaving, aside from circumstances of abuse which changes the context. I haven't heard of the Rational Male. I will check it out. I still have to check out the hold ya nuts book too lol.
It really all boils down to attraction and all of us did enough things wrong to kill the attraction in our marriages. Once the spouse leaving gets that mental image and thought in their mind it is almost impossible to turn it around.
Hey Maika (Joseph), good to see you guys still here, updating and moving on with your lives (with children, particularly younger, it can be difficult to detach as encouraged here). I'm curious if you guys and other vets (Sandi, AS, Chris73) feel as though the real contrition and humility that a WW must demonstrate before R also applies to a WAW? Or is that expectation of a WAW not necessary. I can't recall each of your sitches, or even if your exes are with new OM's now (if not right a BD) but my ex was for sure a WAW and although she has had at least one quasi-serious relationship in the 2.5 years since BD (April 2016), didn't work out though, nobody has been introduced to the kids, (they would have said something), which I find odd...that she hasn't yet fully moved on with another serious relationship. She is quite attractive and has a good career but also very busy with work and mother of three children under the age of 10. Meanwhile, she has been hot and cold with me, kinda all over the place really, currently cold for the past couple months (after about 4 or 5 months of daily contact/some family things together) so I'm back to NC for my own well being.
I'm curious if you guys and other vets (Sandi, AS, Chris73) feel as though the real contrition and humility that a WW must demonstrate before R also applies to a WAW?
I will give you my opinion. IMO the only difference between a WAW and a WW are one of two things. Opportunity or values. The bottom line is in both are not happy in their current relationships and perceive that there is something better out there that will make them happy. A strong woman with values will walk away from a perceived unhappy relationship while a weak woman will latch on to another opportunity prior to walking away.
With three young kids your w is going to find it difficult to find the fantasy suitable mate she is looking for regardless of her looks. That's just the reality of it. I read a profile of an attractive girl on a dating site that read "single mom of three young children, now everyone don't line up at once".
At 2.5 years my guess is if your W was going to look back it would be at the 2 year mark. She was probably temp checking you and based on your interactions realized she has more time because she could tell your still waiting on her. Trust me they know.
S - I suppose it could be different but in either case I think the WW or WAW would need to do some work on themselves to be a better partner in the future and to understand why they did what they did. The work might be different but work would still need to be done.
My X runs hot and cold as well. I just don't engage unless it has something to do with the kids.
I'm curious if you guys and other vets (Sandi, AS, Chris73) feel as though the real contrition and humility that a WW must demonstrate before R also applies to a WAW?
That's a very interesting question. I would say it largely depends on what the situation was in the WAW leaving. Sometimes (often?) the WAW's have perfectly reasonable reasons for leaving. I take issue with the WAY that they usually leave, which seemingly comes out of nowhere and with no notice. But they usually felt very abandoned and lonely leading up to BD because of the way they were treated in the M. So what we preach here is doing 180's on our problems and work on ourselves to make ourselves attractive to them again, and to try and build a new R with them rather than go back to the old one. So if they are attracted back it's not because they realized the error of their ways, it's because they fall in love again with H2.0. So I would say that yes there should hopefully be an apology in there somewhere, maybe not for leaving but for the way they left. But not the same level of repentance that a WW would owe her H.
My ex also runs hot and cold and I've largely just ignored it. I am pretty much NC aside from the kids. We have had some more communications recently to sort out the S and D legal processes. About the WAW question, I agree with what LH, J, and AS have said. Even if there were legitimate reasons of not being valued in the MR etc for the WAW leaving, they also contributed to that dynamic in some way. It is not the LBS's fault 100%. So, I would need to see the WAW take accountability of what they did to bring the MR to where it degraded, and also remorse and contrition about the way they went about it - BD and that abrupt severing of the relationship. There were other options that could've been pursued but were never entertained.
My prime thing is that both sides need to take accountability. With a WW, there's more to the story for sure. But without that accountability and humility, there's nothing to entertain.
