LBS dealing with WW (part 7) (piecing?)

[SteveLW]

Steve - aren't you projecting a tad bit too much from what you recently went through onto Joe? Didn't Sandi and Blu just put up a huge thread on what piecing in and how it's incredibly difficult? I find your response very very strange.

Maika, not sure what you are objecting to, specifically. Joe has been vocal at dealing with many of the feelings I was recently dealing with in my thread. Piecing is a choice by both Ss. But so often the LBS is seeing things through a fog and THINKS they want R more than anything. It is hard to objectively look at your sitch and decide if you'd be better off without this cheater that is willing to stomp on your heart rather than come to you to work on things.

Maybe out of context my response seemed strange, but I think Joe understood based on our discussions in my thread.

[Joe2017]

Yeah, that's a good point about the fog. I want to make sure I don't swing too far in either direction. It's hard to be rational when you are dealing with such an emotional event in your life.

I know my XW has done 180s of her own in many parts of her life. She dealt with the D different than I did, but she dealt with it. Maybe not the best way, but she was able to come to me with remorse so I know her world changed at some point. I have to be supportive of the right behavior and have conversations about what I don't like.

I guess the good part about it is that I can feel free to leave if it becomes necessary. This is so different than straight up DB.

I went back and skimmed some of DR, and it wasn't very helpful for my sitch as it stands I now so I'm glad to get input here from others.

[Maika]

All good Steve. Sounds like I missed some key context. It just seemed odd to suggest what you did based on early recon and possibly moving towards piecing for Joe. But the convo has moved right along and so I have missed some thing.

Joe, continue posting as you progress along your journey. It's really helpful to see this side of the path.

[AnotherStander]

I have to admit something. I am having very real bouts of anxiety regarding my sitch. The feeling is almost the same as the feeling of loss I felt after BD, which is very odd to me. It comes and goes, but when it happens I want to run and break up with my XW.

Joe, I've never been in your situation but I could certainly see myself having those same struggles. After going through what you have, now you're trying to reconnect with the same person that visited all that upon you. It reminds me of that comedian who used to say that getting remarried to the same person is like taking a bottle of milk out of the fridge and you take a swig only to discover it has turned bad, then you put it back in the fridge and say "maybe it will be better tomorrow" I am joking of course, a lot of people do recon and are quite happy. But it's going to take a while for you to get comfortable with her again. Look at it this way, you're not married and you're not living together, so you've got plenty of time. There's no hurry. And it's not going to be linear, some days you'll love her and other days you'll want to run. Just be patient and see where it goes.

And here is another thing. We had a conversation about how she could make me feel more secure about our relationship. So now she js trying really hard to make me feel comfortable. She tells me ILY multiple times a day and has been complimenting me a whole lot. I know it's... Kinda forced? Only because now she will say things to reassure me but I'm not 100% if she means them. What a mind f.

Well, she clearly loves you and wants to fill your emotional needs. Maybe she's not the best at it, but she's trying and that's awesome!

Oh yeah, and on top of all of this, something makes me want to leave the relationship. I can't explain this urge to quit, but it is there.

Sounds like maybe some flight-or-flight anxiety kicking in. Do you feel anxious?

[Joe2017]

Hi Maika,

Some of what you missed is that I have been struggling with intrusive thoughts of a wayward nature. Or at the very least, a walkaway nature. It's like if a pet snake bit you and you almost died, why the hell would you want to get another pet snake? Wouldn't a dog be more fulfilling? Wouldn't a cat be more purry? Why then are you getting another pet snake?

Therein lies my dilemma. Taking back my XW has been hard. It has not been easy. I got along with my ex GF much better than I ever got along with my XW. So... WTF?

Well I think it comes down to this:
1) At one point we had a good marriage. We went through a lot together, a lot of hard times with the wonderful times. We were a great couple for a long time. We fell out of sync in many ways and XW went WW and gave up on us.
2) We are not the same people anymore. In many ways she has grown in areas that I always wanted her to, but for whatever reason she never did. I have had substantial growth in many ways as well. We like what we see in each other now and it is worth exploring.
3) I would probably regret it forever if we never tried again.

[SteveLW]

Joe, as I stated, I think for me D would be the end of the line for me. Even if she came back after that I would have moved on. It is up to each individual to decide. But I can say that after 10 months of piecing, as difficult as it has been, I look at your sitch and say how much easier it would have been if she had gone through with her plans to leave me and D, for me to have shaken the dusts off my shoes and moved on.

[AnotherStander]

I got along with my ex GF much better than I ever got along with my XW. So... WTF?

Apologies for making you repeat yourself but why was it you broke up with GF? I vaguely remember it happening but can't remember the reasons. Are you still in contact with her?

[Joe2017]

Steve:
Part of my sitch that was different than most was the D was filed practically 1 week after BD. There was no waiting. No negotiating. Nothing. BD straight to D as fast as possible.

AS:
I broke it off because I couldn't give her as much time and effort I wanted to. I was falling in love at the same time I knew it wouldn't end well because she needed and deserved more. We are still good friends but we don't talk much due to obvious reasons.

[sandi2]

Is she tainted? It's not like touching her repulses me, so I don't think so.

No, but you have asked the question of why should you settle for leftovers....or something similar to that affect. You were describing how she had let her appearance fall, and that she felt you were more accepting of her than some other men might be. At any rate, her lack of effort in her physical appearance seems to bother you. I'm not saying you are wrong, just wondering if it went deeper, or if was b/c you knew you were free to pick & choose.

This is more like, I am suddenly jealous. I never had jealousy issues before, really. Now I do? Yuck. I don't like this feeling. Jealous people cheat. She was always the jealous one.

I'm not sure exactly how your jealousy connects with the first part of your sentence. But......since you have brought up the subject of jealousy, I'm going to add my thoughts about the XGF situation. I wasn't going to say anything when I saw the other posters respond, but you seem to have brought up this XGF several times now. You also admitted that your XW was bothered by how you seemed too "flirty" with other women. Are you flirty with other women in the presence of your XW? Are you on a date with your XW and being flirty with other women? If so, then you are out of line. You would not find it in good taste if she flirted with other men while on a date with you. Maybe it is a difference of opinion of you just being very "friendly" to the ladies. Anyway, if you know your date doesn't appreciate it, then you either need to be considerate of those feelings, or stop dating the woman. You've already said she felt insecure, so are you enjoying taunting her? Is this payback for the jealousy she's caused in you?

And then there's the party she was not invited to, but you attended anyway......and knowing your XGF would be there. I agree that your XW over reacted, and this jealousy problem must end before you reconcile/piece with her. I also understand the other posters saying you are divorced and can do whatever you want. That's true enough. I think your XW was upset that you attended this friend's party after knowing how they felt about her. In fact, you appeared to delight, just a little bit, in how they was a almost rude about her not being invited. Maybe it's just how I read it, but that was what I sensed. It also seem to delight a little bit, knowing she was jealous that you would be going to a a friend's house where your XGF would be there, also. You said she has always been jealous of XGF, so clearly, you didn't care and proceeded to pour salt in the wound. Yes, you are certainly free to go anywhere without your XW's blessings. You are free to flirt with all your XGF's or possible new GF's. But I think you are bringing up this XGF just a little too much, if you were not enjoying the effect it had on your XW. You were or are jealous of her OM, and you had the opportunity to pay her back a little. So, both of you have jealousy issues. I'm not picking on you. I'm just pointing out what I saw differently than the other posters.

Your XW is pursuing you hot & heavy. If she doesn't know who & what she is outside of a relationship, maybe she needs more time alone. There are a lot of people who have no self identity outside of their job or relationship. I don't think it is a good decision to enter into another long-term relationship with her, feeling as uncertain as you currently feel. Have you dated others since being divorced? How would you feel if your XW had a date with someone now, since you've been dating her? I mean, is this an exclusive dating relationship? If she is talking marriage, then you know she is serious. That doesn't mean you must go along with it, but if you are gun shy, then you need to tell her very clearly.....and tell her that she must slow down and stop talking marriage, or risk losing you. Let me add something else. She is being on her very best behavior, b/c she is trying to convince you to marry her. However, nothing has been resolved from the past MR. Hopefully, she has ended her GGW lifestyle, and corrected her wayward behavior and mindset.......but good actress can fake it for awhile. She has already demonstrated a negative side, when she over reacted to you attending that party without her. Maybe she had cause to be upset, but regardless.....her actions were extreme. Was she reacting b/c she has a need to manipulate you, or was she hurt? Lately, you kind of down play her reactions, but you need to see them as a red flag.

Please continue to take things very slowly. Ask yourself why she is in such a rush to get you to marry her. Do you need to explore dating others before settling down again? If so, then end it with your XW. The longer you date her, the more she is going to feel she has rights to you........know what I mean?

[Joe2017]

Hi Sandi, I'm responding from my phone, so this might not flow well. I'll try to speak to different parts of your post in order as I read.

Physical appearance:
Yeah, it bothers me. She has been skinny her whole life except for the years when she has been with me including now. That's tough to feel because it makes me feel like I am not worth the work it takes for her to be the most attractive version of her. I understand how shallow that seems, but it's more about the feeling than her body.

ExGF:
This is a relationship I had post D. We broke up prior to XW reconnecting with me. The party was a huge deal to XW because I she felt like I ghosted her. She acted out of being hurt. Overreacted, yes. When I saw the chain of texts I knew not to respond to her at all. It would have led to a fight. She thought I was ignoring her and her mind wandered to me cheating. She said something to the effect of "oh now you get to hurt me back? We're even" or something like that. I did not set out to use exGF as a way to get back at XW, but I understand that perspective. I bring her up a lot because I have been having strong feelings of regret for breaking up with her.

Flirting and Jealousy:
No, I've never actively flirted with women in front of her but women have flirted with me in front of her before. I did not flirt back, but that doesn't matter to her as much I suppose. Do we both have jealousy issues? Maybe you're right. In our MR I gave her a lot of freedom and I did not worry about her being around other men. Now I do because I got burned really badly. It is hard for me to deal with. I am seeing IC.

Our Relationship:
We are in an exclusive dating situation, and not living together. If XW went on a date with someone else, I would not like it because she would be breaking our agreement. It started out being less exclusive and more casual, but XW decided during the first week that she wanted to invest in trying to rekindle a LTR with me, hopefully one day leading to remarriage. I agreed with being exclusive because I felt like it was the right way to do things, is less complicated, and I wanted to see where this road leads. There are times when we don't see each other for a few days in a row, so there is plenty of space between us. As far as the marriage thing goes, I am not being pressured. She mentions it as her dream goal, but she doesn't ask me for a timeline. She told me the other day that she felt like maybe I wasn't sure, and if I need to figure things out on my own we can hit pause. She said she wasn't intending on dating anyone and she is OK on her own. She said she talked to me a few times and realized she was in love with me, but "for the right reasons" and she feels like she understands more about what love is now. About how it's more than just a feeling and that it's a choice you make every day.

Transparency:
She lets me know about any communication she gets from other men. Her AP contacted her via text about some box he is missing. She let me know about it. It upsets me that she even responded to him but all it was was her saying no, and she took a screenshot and sent it to me. She has given me all of her passwords and access to her phone. She checks in with me regularly when we are apart. She gave me location access to her phone. These are all things she would have never done during our MR.

XW Pursuing me?
Well, pursuit is good from some angles right? I can 100% say that she has done every single thing I've asked of her so far. From the color of lipstick, to the way her hair is worn, to what she calls me, what she wears, she has adjusted to what I want from her. She texts me throughout the day to let me know she's thinking about me. She compliments me more. She's been asking me for opinions on almost all of the aspects of her life now. (During our MR, she hated asking me for advice). She does not argue with any of my decisions about daily things, like where we're eating or what we're doing. That's a huge 180 for her, actually. She could be acting, but she has been putting her best foot forward for the past month in a relatively consistent manner.

Anyhow... Thanks for responding Sandi. As always you've given me a ton of things to think about.