LH, Joseph, AS and Maika -- thanks for your thoughts, all good advice...unlike me, you guys have this all figured out it would seem. I think the vacillation we see is best ignored and if indeed it's just periodic temperature checking, the running cold that follows is probably because the hot doesn't elicit the reaction they perhaps wanted to unequivocally confirm "still available", if that makes sense (I'm careful not to engage in anything that resembles relationship talk or pursuit through compliments or otherwise). I still remember Maika's "test" at the 6 month mark and how he vowed never again because he didn't like how it left him feeling when W said she still felt the same way. That was a good cautionary tale, no need to give them that satisfaction without something from them that leaves no doubt how they will respond.
I do believe that although the expected contrition and humility may not be the same for the WAW, they all make it obvious if and when they want to R and anything short of that is temperature checking (for reasons that are known only to them, no good comes from trying to mind read). And again, when they don't get the reaction they expected or perhaps wanted, i.e. attention, they get kinda pouty.
And LH, yes, working on the wrong side of 40 with two or three young children makes for a shallow dating pool...and not just for women, although I expect it's harder for them in part because a lot of men will pretend to be interested in order to get some...shoplifting the pootie, lol (Jerry Maguire).
S.....I would continue to do your thing. Early on I was told that if my Xw wants to recon she will make it very clear and there will be no questions. Hang in there!
Also.....I don’t know if I have it all figured out but what I discovered through this process is my own value and self worth. My best friend and I talk every day through text about various topics about being a man that helps me stay on course. In many ways he had become my Miagi, my guru, my therapist. For me having him in my circle as another man I can confide in has been invaluable.
Yeah I think that the contrition and remorse from a WAW looks different than a WW, but I believe that they will make it clear if they want to recon. If they want you to mind read, drop small hints, etc etc, that is not satisfactory to me. I want proper communication and transparency - I do not want to play a guessing game or mind reading cheeseless tunnels. It's just not worth my time. This is my stance - if they were able to be straight up in communications about BD, they can do the same for recon. I won't take anything less as the person I would want to be with can handle conflict and figure out how to approach it in a mature fashion with a level of directness.
The hot and cold can be many things. It could be small temp checks and then withdrawal, or their mood, or feeling angry, guilty etc etc. There's just no way to determine the reason without directly asking, which is a waste of time. So, that's why it's best to let it slide off your back and continue your thing. I think your NC strategy sounds on point.
Have you dated? Are you thinking of dating? The thing I am wondering is if you're still hanging on to the MR by a small thread. It's been quite some time now. I hope you're truly moving on and creating a new life for yourself that doesn't have her in any measure.
btw J - I am really glad to hear about your friendship. I am sorely missing that right now. Some good male friendships with other men who are also in a growth mindset and engaged in personal growth. I just don't know anyone around here for that. I tried joining a dad's club in town and it was full of men, probably unhappily married and don't know, who were just chugging along in their lives. No sign of any men who knew how to handle their $hit. It [censored]. I think we would be good friends outside of here. Well, maybe we can find a way to connect outside of here at some point.
Yeah M I am extremely lucky that both of us are on the same journey. We have known each other since the 1st grade so it is very easy for us.
I have also played basketball with the same group of guys for around 15 years and we sit around and chat about stuff after we are done playing. One guy is a local judge in town, the other is doctor, one guy went through a D and online dating so he gives me advice as well (he also just got engaged). We have a group text list that we joke and kid around with each other when we are not playing and every now and then will meet up for drinks. Maybe once a quarter.
Since you enjoy rock climbing maybe there are local groups in town or through the gym that you could join? Maybe if you go at the same time every day the same guys will be there? When I started playing basketball with these guys it all happened because I went to the gym at 5 am one morning and I saw a group of guys playing. I walked into the gym, one of them came over and asked me if I played, I told him I did and the rest is history. You do have to put yourself out there a bit but I found that it was easy because it was something I enjoyed doing and I was interested in.
Even at the gym when I am lifting I see the same guys so in between sets I will make small talk etc. One guy his daughter was on my oldests soccer team so there is a connection, another guy has a daughter that goes to the same school as mine so that helped as well. Those guys also have friends at the gym so then they introduce you to them and it just kind of happens.
It does require you to open up though once you get comfortable. I did not know my best friend was going through marital issues and I have known him for over 35 years. I opened up to him about mine first and then it just took off from there. You would probably be shocked at the number of guys that are impacted but you know us males we don't like to talk about our feelings a lot. My point is that if you meet some people and open up you might be shocked at what you find and what friendships you could form. Just no that you might have to be the one to open up first.
Men need other men to be around and discuss men stuff with.
You're absolutely right.. I kinda started that at the climbing gym last year, but with me being injured and unable to go back yet, those friendships kinda died out. They were just beginning and so I need to put myself out there more when I get back. Hopefully next month
I know there are probably tons of guys who are going through these issues but don't talk about it. Once you open up, I am sure the stories start filtering. Thanks for the reminder to open up and I know that will create opportunities for friendships. Men do need other men to talk stuff with.
Hey guys! It´s summer here so it´s hard to get to the forum daily. I´m sorry. Lot of pressure at work.
Don´t get too much into generalization. A couple is a group of two...both partners should be accounted for MR failures. Even when abuse occurs but this is another topic.
Agree with all.
Originally Posted by LH19
I will give you my opinion. IMO the only difference between a WAW and a WW are one of two things. Opportunity or values. The bottom line is in both are not happy in their current relationships and perceive that there is something better out there that will make them happy.
^^^^ Yesssss
I will add some items...unclosed childhood related topics, MLCs, predator people, financial struggles, there´s a lot to add.
Originally Posted by Maika
My prime thing is that both sides need to take accountability. With a WW, there's more to the story for sure. But without that accountability and humility, there's nothing to entertain.
Add some respect and honesty too.
Lot of hugs for you and the kids M!!!!!!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
You on point Nef - respect, honesty, accountability, humility.... stir that all together in a pot and now we're cooking. hugs and love to you too. hope life is sunny
LH, Joseph, AS and Maika -- thanks for your thoughts, all good advice...unlike me, you guys have this all figured out it would seem. I think the vacillation we see is best ignored and if indeed it's just periodic temperature checking, the running cold that follows is probably because the hot doesn't elicit the reaction they perhaps wanted to unequivocally confirm "still available", if that makes sense (I'm careful not to engage in anything that resembles relationship talk or pursuit through compliments or otherwise). I still remember Maika's "test" at the 6 month mark and how he vowed never again because he didn't like how it left him feeling when W said she still felt the same way. That was a good cautionary tale, no need to give them that satisfaction without something from them that leaves no doubt how they will respond.
I do believe that although the expected contrition and humility may not be the same for the WAW, they all make it obvious if and when they want to R and anything short of that is temperature checking (for reasons that are known only to them, no good comes from trying to mind read). And again, when they don't get the reaction they expected or perhaps wanted, i.e. attention, they get kinda pouty.
And LH, yes, working on the wrong side of 40 with two or three young children makes for a shallow dating pool...and not just for women, although I expect it's harder for them in part because a lot of men will pretend to be interested in order to get some...shoplifting the pootie, lol (Jerry Maguire).
Dont think of yourself on the wrong side of 40. I am 38. One of my goals has been met and that was to get from 265lbs to 185lbs. Im actually at 177lbs now. The dating pool grows exponentially when you are a healthy and fit older man. For example, I met a very nice 25 year old woman who I enjoy talking to.
She is also drop dead gorgeous and has a degree so she can hold an intelligent conversation with me for more than a few minutes. If/when you are at the point where you are moving on completely and looking for a woman, you will have zero issues finding one. I also have three kids. I get propositioned for dates almost daily now at work which is very new to me. But I sure as hell enjoy the attention!
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Dont think of yourself on the wrong side of 40. I am 38. One of my goals has been met and that was to get from 265lbs to 185lbs. Im actually at 177lbs now. The dating pool grows exponentially when you are a healthy and fit older man. For example, I met a very nice 25 year old woman who I enjoy talking to.
Congrats on getting fit, nice work!
Totally agree on the dating prospects. Men can date their age or younger or much younger. Young women tend to see older men as mature, mysterious and sophisticated even if they are not Brad Pitt. Some young men feel that way about older women, but it's more the exception rather than the rule whereas it is very common for young women to think that way about older men. Most here know my GF is half my age, I can tell you that age is not the roadblock you might think it would be. We get along great and have a lot of common interests, many more than I did with my ex in fact. We've been dating for years and neither of us even thinks about the age gap anymore. Sometimes when we're out we'll get some lingering looks, it's usually then that I'm reminded that we're an "unconventional" couple Of course she always has crazy colors in her hair and we both have a lot of ink so that might have something to do with it too.
Anyway ST is spot on that men have a ton of dating prospects out there. If you are kind, considerate, hold doors open for your date, open the car door for her, pick up the tab without saying a word, dress nicely and don't live for the next release of Call of Duty then you'll have your pick of younger women if you so choose.
Of course she always has crazy colors in her hair and we both have a lot of ink so that might have something to do with it too.