13 years and 2 kids pt. 4.

[LH19]

Answer: I am talking about the ghost she is, and the ghost I know she is, because the person who loved me is no longer. However, this is a concept I need to mentally process, and you are right, detachment would be not caring how she turns out to be with OM, but I have ways to go there. I guess in my mind, if she ends it with OM, she will return to being who she was when we were happy and life was good - I know from a logical point of view, that this is not the case, but my feelings get the better of me from time to time still.

Hurt, you have to accept that person is gone and probably will never come back. I read AS say his ex is just now slowly starting to return and it's been 5 years.


2. Why are you cleaning the house for her? That is approval seeking behavior.

Answer: Actually, this, how hard it might be to trust my words the truth. It was not for her. I came to the house to pick up the kids for gymnastics. She was at work and I had an hour before the kids were to be picked up. So I saw the mess and decided to clean the house because of my kids and the fact that I felt bad for them having to stay in that - thats as honest as it gets. Her room is a complete mess with clothings everywhere, makeup and

I think your BSing yourself. Your children are too young to realize the difference between a clean and messy house.

Answer: I guess you are somewhat right here to be fair. I bought the meal because I am sick and tired of the fact that she cooks easy fast meals with no nutrition for the kids. I know this is none of my business whenever she has the kids, but it sickens me. because her using her mental energy and time on OM, makes her skip corners when it comes to my kids wellbeing (aka healthy meals), and I guess I tried to influence that by, and have before, bringing meals when I come home. I know, that she has to make her own dumb decisions and live in her own mess, however when my kids are involved its hard on me. Hope that makes sense.

Actually you are wrong, it is your business and should be discussed with her about the kids nutrition. Be clear direct and to the point. Don't back down on this issue.

Answer: One of the things she mentioned: She had some information regarding D4 having acted out in daycare, being fussy and not being able to calm down - (reaction to all of this perhaps) and that made her sad and worried. So Basically I wanted to say "Yea, well maybe if you didn't go around screwing another man, and thereby ruining your family, these issues would not be issues. However I said "I can understand how the feedback regarding D4 from the daycare must have been hard to hear" <-- Not trying to solve the problem or justify it, just acknowledging it.

That's actually not bad. Do NOT validate any discussion about OM!

Answer: So here you wanted me to respond with a "you're welcome"? I thought I was to keep it as dim as possible. I merely acknowledged her birthday, but did not think I should engage in textual conversation.

I actually didn't want you to text her Happy Birthday or get her a gift this year. She does not deserve it. I wanted YOU to see that she didn't deserve it. My point was I feel like you were trying to save face by saying at least I didn't say your'e welcome.

Below is straight out of a book I was reading last night and it reminded me of your situation.
Whether you want them to be or not, your actions are the true message you send to others. You may verbal tell someone you are unhappy with them, but if you then give them something nice or preform an act of service, you are actually expressing that you are willing to do what they want even if they don't deserve it. That's a message of WEAKNESS and a display of LOW VALUE.

I am a freaking yoyo. spinning up and down. However I realize ,that I can go hours now, without thinking about her. Yesterday I smashed it in the gym. Again, eyecontact with couple of girls, and it really is nice. I am also seeing what the world has to offer, and one MAJOR thing. 1.5 years ago S1 was born, and couple of months later, she moved her mattress from her bed into his room, so we could take turns sleeping in there. At first I was like alright, then that thought moved to "Hey? We aren't sleeping in the same bed anymore, and I dont mind getting up at night and go to his room to feed or comfort him?" She was afraid we wouldn't be able to hear him even with the babymonitor on. So the pattern continued.

You have to let go of the past. Learn from it and move on. In the future "w it's best we sleep in the same bed together so we can keep the intimacy and connection with each other while we sleep."

I am 100% positive, that that contributed in a huge way to this sitch. We ended up being to people taking care of kids, not sleeping in the same room and just cohabiting. It saddens me to say, but I can't remake a memory in my head of when me and WW last slept in the same bed. At the same time this is rocket fuel to my understanding of how bad this was, and if anything ever is to be with me and her again (who knows), then it needs to be completely different. Because.... I need to be in a relationship with a woman that wants to go to bed next to me every night, a woman that wants to tuck herself into my arms and fall asleep safe and comfortably. This I am missing SO much...

I really think you first need to feel comfortable alone before any new relationships. You are very codependent right now.

Today is a long day at work. Then going to house to make ready for D4s birthday tomorrow and then WW will leave tomorrow night when the birthday party is done.

Enjoy your daughter's birthday party.

One day at a time my friend!

[AnotherStander]

Answer: I am talking about the ghost she is, and the ghost I know she is, because the person who loved me is no longer. However, this is a concept I need to mentally process, and you are right, detachment would be not caring how she turns out to be with OM, but I have ways to go there. I guess in my mind, if she ends it with OM, she will return to being who she was when we were happy and life was good - I know from a logical point of view, that this is not the case, but my feelings get the better of me from time to time still.

Hurt, you have to accept that person is gone and probably will never come back. I read AS say his ex is just now slowly starting to return and it's been 5 years.

Yes, exactly. My ex's personality was completely different after BD. I don't think she was MLC but I very much identified with the "invasion of the bodysnatchers" analogy that a lot of MLCer spouses describe. I'm not saying she was a worse person like most MLCers are, just very different. She wanted NOTHING to do with me. She didn't want me to help with anything, she didn't want to talk to me, she probably didn't even want to hear about me. There was an OM but I don't think it was ever really about her wanting to be with him and ride off into the sunset. Anyway there has been a gradual thawing in the past year or so where she is a lot more like her old self. And part of that thawing is towards me as well. She now calls and texts about things going on in her life, she sometimes asks for my help with something, asks me out to dinner (with the kids) and it frequently gets back to me that she is telling friends and strangers alike about what a great person I am. Honestly it's nice, especially after getting treated like a leper for so long after BD. But yeah, it's been 6-1/2 years since BD, so it was a solid 5+ years before her attitude towards me changed. And even though she's more like her old self, she is still a different person than she was before BD. I don't think she'll ever be "that" person again.

[Hurt213]

Journaling:

So spinning a little, but I know how to act, I know how not to react, and I know what is healthy for me, so this is just a bit of a rant to get it off my chest I guess.

Yesterday arrived home late, tugged in the kids and me and WW made the house ready for D4 birthday today. Went to bed after that, so that I all rested and ready for a great today with my daughter today.

So I know, my texts are filled with WW and again, this is not because I am about to do some stupid [censored], I just vent here, since I dont want to put this on my family or friends anymore.

So this morning, we woke up, and sang for D4, she was really happy. She opened her presents, we played with her new toys, and then had breakfast. And yea, this is where it kinda goes down hill. I have a new bubble, a priority bubble of sorts, and that main bubble is me, d4 and s1. However, traditions and habits got the best of me, because I wanted to include WW in this special day for d4 (she always was completely focused on the kids when their birthdays are happening). Today she was in the kitchen, texting OM and not participating in the fun, I felt bad for d4, but kept my cool (none of my business anymore I guess, so I didn't say anything. D4 had a good morning anyways with me and her brother.

I then dropped the kids and daycare, and am now at work (will leave midday so we can celebrate her birthday) and WW has said she will leave tomorrow morning and be gone for the week, as we agreed on (That will create some space for me to relax. I dont feel very comfortable around WW, she seems like she has a secret agenda with everything. Acting very nice and talking calmly and then boom... If I say something she doesn't necessarily think is right (I proposed a treasure hunt for D4 today - she then hiss at me and really shows how much she apparently resents me - (that is really crazy to witness, but it is what it is).

So I made the mistake of snooping (dumbass :D), but yea whatever, I am not gonna react to it, and I know it is unhealthy of me to do so, so thats a 180 I really need to be working on. Apparently since her and OM work together, he wrote her on her birthday on the internal text message system "Hi Sweety, Happy birthday. Looking forward to seeing you on saturday....." and she responded "Thank you (heart emoji), You are gorgeous! I can't wait to see you either...."

What can I do with this info? absolutely nothing. Does it change anything? Absolutely not... Does it make me spin, and make my stomach turn, and make me use my mental energy on this instead of reserving it for a day of fun with D4? absolutely.

Point is: Dont snoop.

I am not gonna let it ruin my day and thereby D4s special day. We will have fun. I will tolerate WW, I will be kind, upbeat and make it all about D4, and then tonight when she is tugged in after having had a great day. I will go to the gym, and make use of this pooled up negative energy to have a killer workout.

I just had my first week of not living at the house. I missed my kids, and by day 3, I didn't even give much thought to WW. When I arrived home tuesday, she was in the kitchen with no makeup, in some old relaxed clothings. I looked at her, and just realized, wow.... why am I putting that on a piedestal. She is only dressing up and taking care of herself whenever she is going to be with OM, and frankly, I am not gonna be all superficial - I loved her, and she can be very gorgeous, but chooses only to be when she goes to her new life, so with that in mind, and the fact that the inside, that I loved very much, is now completely gone, then goodbye piedestal. Have a nice life, maybe we meet again...

I will have my picnic (metaphor from the site).. She can sit in her castle with OM, and maybe it will be great for them, and maybe I will peak her interest with my nice picnic, on the nice green grass. Maybe she chooses to peak out, maybe join in, and maybe I will be having a guest at my picnic and will no longer be interested.

Time will tell..

Spinning, not reacting, mostly just venting....

Finding this community, has without a doubt been life changing for me.. I look forward to coming here everyday. Thank you so much

[neffer]

Well, happy birthday to D4! Enjoy this day with your kids, they deserve it. You control what you control so keep moving forward H.

My best wishes to D4!

[Hurt213]

Journaling.

Had a wonderful birthday for D4. The whole day and evening was centered around her, and it was wonderful. She and her kid brother practically fell asleep standing up at the end, and then capitulated. When the guests left I took off and smashed a 2 hour gym session in. Ended the day with a coffee with my neighbor.

Have been upbeat, friendly and listening around WW, but mostly just minding my own business and not mind reading or analyzing her actions, as I have been doing a lot. I just don't really have the urge - hard to explain what is happening inside me right now, but I feel, I dont know, balanced of sorts.

This morning I woke up, and WW had cleaned the entire house, which was a new for her. I thanked her and packed the kids bags for the swimming pool. I overheard D4 ask her, when she would be back in the house to which she responded "I will be home again monday, sweety".

When D4 left the kitchen I entered and asked if she would be coming to spend some hours with the kids monday, because I overheard something that sounded like that. She then said she would be coming home monday and stay some days. <-- Yep, I journaled about this would most likely happen. I told her, in a friendly but firm tone, that we made an agreement to terminate the in house seperation, and I would really like her to come by every 2nd or 3rd day, and spend some hours with the kids due to their age, but I would appreciate that she honor the agreement we made. She said that she would be out every night if I wanted, and then I would only see her for breakfast. I told her, again, friendly but firm, that me and her are no longer what we were, and therefore I didn't have the need for her and I to share breakfast, and she need to figure out somewhere else to stay when I have the kids. I kept it cool, no emotions and I think that kept it from escalating into something it doesn't have to be. She agreed to what I proposed, and said she understood.

I then wished her a nice weekend and took off with the kids. We just returned home now from the swimming pool. Two tired kids who are just having a bite before we are going to create some drawings and go for a nice long walk.

Did I handle myself alright? I mean, I feel really relaxed when she is not around and I dont have to deal with her. The last week without her, has been a blessing truly. I have been turning my energy and focus towards myself, and my confidence level has taken a big notch up. I am looking forward to the next days with my kids and no interruptions of unwelcome presences .

/h

[LH19]

H,

I am really glad your daughter had a great birthday party!

Now because you asked here come the 2x4s.

You're still spinning and mind reading but then say your not. The comment about the house being clean is mind reading. I have asked you multiple times to make one post that doesn't involve your w but you can't.

If you want to use the board as a bitch session that is fine. That will not change anything.

You wished her great weekend???????WTF??????? She is going to sleep with another man!

I think you are really confused on what your supposed to do because you're cherry picking the information and you're trying to validate when you shouldn't and it's probably coming off really weak.

Look man I know this is hard but you have to put in the work if you want to come out on the other side. I truly believe that you are a really nice guy but there is a reason that they say that nice guys finish last.

You have to give her a reason to turn around and wondering what she will be missing.

Onward and upward!

[Hurt213]

Journaling:

LH,

thanks for the 2x4's, much appreciated. I do feel however, that I am detaching slowly, but none the less, detaching. I am enjoying the IHS ending, because it gives me perspective, and you guys were right, that was much needed and not possible as long as we just went on our merry way with IHS (or WWs merry way at least).

That "have a nice weekend thing" has haunted me since saturday, lol! NGS alert. Don't know what I was thinking (probably didn't think at all, how weak was that!).

I have had a good weekend with my kids, and we have been doing some outdoor activities and visiting family and friends.

I set up GAL activities for 4 out of 7 days next week, so combined with gym and work, I will have my hands full, but its all things I am looking forward too. Weather is slowly turning for the better, so it won't be long before I can play golf again, and I am looking forward to that as well.

So question in general about my sitch:

So basically the agreement is that IHS ended, and we take turns to have the house (with kids) for 7 days a week, and we switch on fridays. So because of D4 birthday, WW didn't take off before saturday morning. The kids haven't mentioned her once since saturday with exception of yesterday, when WW texted and asked for a call with D4.

When its in the kids best interest, I will of course always oblige. There is a hard difference between me and WW's relationship, and the relationship me and WW has as parents to our children. So I asked D4 if she wanted to talk to mommy. D4 said no, and then minutes later, she broke down, cried her heart out and said she wanted mommy to come home (yea that hurt really much).. She quickly turned around, and there has been no mention of mommy since. S1 is a little trooper, and just goes around minding his own world (which evolves around him, and as long as he is comfortable and feels safe, then he can take on anything with the confidence he is projecting - maybe I can borrow some? :D).

I texted WW and said, that D4 didn't want to talk on the phone, but maybe later. I didn't ask D4 again that day though.

Well this morning I got a text from WW. She is coming home today (every second or third day when we are out of house, because kids are so small). She basically wrote she was looking forward to picking up the kids, and will leave again when they sleep (I feel surprisingly fine with her leaving again). She then followed up the text with another saying "oh btw, I will be coming tomorrow after work and then again wednesday, ok?".

So yea, that doesn't work for me, and is not what we agreed upon.

I texted her the following:

"Hi, WW. The kids are looking forward to being picked up by you today. Actually, I am not fine with you coming tuesday and wednesday, to be honest. Every second or third day, makes perfect sense according to the needs of our little ones. D4 cried and said she missed you after I asked her yesterday about a call with you (she was fine minutes later, and didn't talk about you after that, so dont worry, it is what it is). But the point is, the kids need stability and fixed habits in their daily lives. We can't provide that, if you or I turn up every day, and then are gone when they wake up. Its better if we stay to the agreement we made, because, then they will learn, and then know, what to expect from us in this new life they suddenly have to adapt to. I hope you understand what I am saying. But they are really looking forward to seeing you today.

H".

I was trying to keep it neutral, but hell no, we aren't going to be her waiting room, where she comes home and stays until her OM returns from work or w/e, and says she can come over. I just spent an entire week away from my kids. Now she has to uphold her side of the deal, and she is most likely not gonna.

I am contemplating, just taking the kids and go visit my folks for tuesday and wednesday, if she doesn't understand my text. I am on a good path. I can't be sucked back in right now, because yea, im not strong enough, and I dont want to ruin my slow but still, advancing progression.

[LH19]

"Hi, WW. The kids are looking forward to being picked up by you today. Actually, I am not fine with you coming tuesday and wednesday, to be honest. Every second or third day, makes perfect sense according to the needs of our little ones. D4 cried and said she missed you after I asked her yesterday about a call with you (she was fine minutes later, and didn't talk about you after that, so dont worry, it is what it is). But the point is, the kids need stability and fixed habits in their daily lives. We can't provide that, if you or I turn up every day, and then are gone when they wake up. Its better if we stay to the agreement we made, because, then they will learn, and then know, what to expect from us in this new life they suddenly have to adapt to. I hope you understand what I am saying. But they are really looking forward to seeing you today.

Hurt I really don't even know what to say to you anymore.

In the first and last sentence you repeat yourself with more approval seeking behavior. In the middle you say D4 missed her and then go right into that she was fine and didn't want to talk to her. Then you try to guilt trip her.

I am really confused to what the arrangement is for the kids. Sounds like 7 days on and 7 days off but she can see them every couple days on her 7 days off and you can't see them at all on your 7 days off. WTF????? If you want what is best for them then start them on the schedule now of 7 days on and 7 days off. They are young they will get use to it. Stop letting her cake eat because you don't have the b@lls to tell her no. These are consequences of divorce/breakups.

Text:

"No that does not work for me. In order for the kids to obtain structure in their lives it is not a good idea for you to show up on days they are with me."

If you think 7 days is too long then you have dinner at her place on the 4th day and she has dinner at your place on the 4th day of each of your alotted 7 days.

Please come to the board before sending texts of importance.

[Ginger1]

Agreed with the above. it's a learning curve, and yes, for kids at your kids age, 7 days is too long. Every 3rd day could be the other parent taking them out for a period of time, then returning them at a set time.

You are right, they need to know exactly what to expect. That was very key for my daughter.

Or you alternate every 3 or 4 days.

And also, lots of approval seeking behavior, like you don't have confidence in what you are saying. Why do you keep having to tell her how much they are looking forward to seeing her? Why are you trying to make her feel good? Not your job.

[Hurt213]

Thank you guys for letting me know, that once again my NGS took the better of me. I dont know why I try to make it this easy for her. I honestly dont. Guess I just have to keep on practicing. My GAL is good, my 180s (except for nice guy syndrome) are kicking off - however, I seem to keep on fkin up, when I interact with her. Approval seeking, nice guy tendencies are top priority 180s now.