MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology

[MrBrside]

Hi all,

Well its been an interesting weekend. I went out on Friday and have kept things “amicable and neighbourly” over the weekend.

She went to view a new house yesterday and says she wants to sort finances asap so she can put a deposit down.

Things went a bit south last night though as I told her I was off out once we had put the children to bed.

She kept asking “who with”

I pretty much followed Steve85s advise and said that we were “separated” – hence “separate” lives..

She got annoyed and she brought up needed the money for the house asap etc – Told her I would speak to mortgage adviser tomorrow to sort the finances, and I was waiting for the solicitors recommendations based on the minutes of our meeting and then we will discuss – That hit her like a sledge hammer, as until that point she had mentioned getting a solicitor, but I hadn’t told her I had seen one.. She just burst into tears.

She then turned it back on the going out and assumed it was with a girl ( it wasn’t, it was my best mate, who actually went through the whole wayward affair thing 4 months after getting married – his partner work up after the EA turned PA and the guy ditched her – too late for them though )

I didn’t correct her and just said it was separate lives.

As I was leaving she insisted on trying to talk to me ( she was very upset ) and was demanding to know why I have changed so much in a week .. ie her words “last week I wanted to save us, and now I am dead set on ending it”.

I just said I didn’t want to go into it, but she made the choice when she chose to message a guy over our relationship or family… She fired back with “they are just a few silly messages and we have separated because we haven’t been happy for ages”.

Told her I didn’t want to discuss it , but we had only had 2 big rows in 12 months and It was never that bad - and I left, with her in tears.

Within 2 minutes of me leaving, she was on WhatsApp – I suspect telling people how I was on a date with a girl etc

This morning I was normal and upbeat - she was a wreck… She had obviously been crying and I think she could burst into tears at any point…I suspect she would have done when I left.

So couple of questions for people..

Should I tell her that I went to the pub with my best mate last night and it wasn’t a female?

Does anybody here consider this whole 180 as emotional abuse / torture to my ex .. I had no issues with it initially but now she is noticing it, you can see its taking the toll - but is the consensus its ok to go distant, even if It hurts them ? or am I being soft ?

I suspect judging my the amount of time she is on her phone once I leave the house / room, this distancing is pushing her closer to the other guy.. Is this the norm with most people – just leave them to it ?

I remember reading on one of Sandis posts about her finding this forum and it being her wakeup – has anybody every actually mentioned the term “wayward fog” to their partner and let them do the rest ( ie don’t get into it, but give them a breadcrumb )

Thanks

[Hurt213]

helpme12,

First of all, sorry about your sitch. I have been trying to catch up.

So basically, by pulling back, detaching, GAL'ing you are withdrawing yourself from her presence, and thereby the power she feels she possess over you / your situation is diminishing, and you no longer stand out as being a a sure plan B to her.

I do believe you need to see her tears for what they most likely are - temp checking to see if you will crumble and adopt your behaviour to her choosing, and a understanding that you are not caving, you are standing strong for yourself because you have self-respect, you are nobody fkn plan b.

Regarding your questions:

Do not tell her, where you went last night, she chose this, she no longer gets to be involved in your personal life. It is none of her business.

Regarding 180s. The 180s are for you, they are for you to reflect on how you can evolve, and for you to understand what you can do to be a better person, a person you want to be. They might influence people around you, and mostly that influence will be positive. However, they might come off as negative as well (your WW will definitely take your changing behaviors as something you purely do to annoy her, and not to better yourself). Do not take offense, do not react to her outburst. Know that what you do, you do for you, and whoever deserves to be in a relationship with you down the line. And maybe that is your WW, but right now, she most likely resents whatever change you work on.

Regarding GAL and pushing her to the other guy. So basically, and this took me quite a while to grasp. You aren't pushing her. She is choosing to be drawn, and by doing so, she is choosing to distance herself from you. You see, this is about HER and the actions she makes. You can't make her choose differently. She is a human being, that right now, thinks the grass is greener on the other side, and she is experiencing and exploring. So you basically have two choices. Stay home, sit in a corner, and observe her make those choices regardless of what you come up with. See your life pass by, hours, minutes and seconds you will never get back......

or... Get out of the house, do things you want to do, reach out to people you miss, explore and grow. Maybe these actions will spark her interest, maybe she will wonder where you are, and what you are doing.. Maybe this will pull her from the fog. Maybe them having a lot of time together will make her see, what she really left behind, maybe not... In the end, you will have grown, you will have experienced, and you will have healed.

Do not feed her any breadcrumbs, she will see this as pursuing and you will push her away. You need to let her make her own choices, and maybe those choices will bring her back to you, and maybe not. You use the time you have now, to become AMOAFWL, and then you follow your dreams. Live for you, do not live in the shadows of a person that clearly wants nothing from you right now. You are worth so much, and time on this planet is so limited, so make the best of it, every fkin day you have.

You are awesome!

/H

[DavidUK]

You distance, her behavior "improves". I quoted that because it doesn't really, she just changes it to manipulate you.

The advice I've been given is that W will find new ways to manipulate you to get what she wants and will stop at nothing.

Do as she wants and she will use you and have no respect for you, don't do as she wants and she will wreck you. You just have to get out of her way.

[SteveLW]

helpme, you are doing great! Don't stop now. You are being kind, but firm. Remember, this is what SHE asked for, not you. Feel free to remind her of that next time, and to remind her that you are still open to R IF she is willing to fully commit back to the marriage.

And yes, DBing has a profound effect, most of the time, on the WAS. My W was the same way. She was cold, almost cruel, as long as I was holding on for dear life. As soon as I started to taking the same steps you took (GAL and detachment) she suddenly was showing emotion and expressing concern. Where was that before? Well, when she felt in 100% control she didn't need to be emotional and concerned. As soon as I started taking power back, her emotions and concern came pouring out. As did doubt, after he being so sure, that she wanted out of the marriage.

Denying seeing someone is fine at some point. But still be coy about where you are going and what you are doing. When she makes comments about you seeing someone, laugh it off and say "I am not seeing anyone." Remember, upbeat, cheerful, happy, fulfilled, pleased. But let her start the conversations, and then stick to validating her feelings. One of my favorites is "based on having just gone through it with you, if I were seeing someone I could understand how it would make you feel". Remember, do what works! Stop doing things that do not work.

Also, the doubts you expressed. "Is it driving her closer to him, etc". We all have those doubts. Prior to last week you weren't DBing....was she moving closer or further away from him? Do not let your doubts submarine your progress. We all come up with reasons that DBing can't work for us. Just remember, progress in DBing is hard fought. Losing ground is very easy to do. Each slip up could take weeks to overcome. So be as consistent as humanly possible in DBing. You are already seeing it yield fruit. DO you really think watching TV in the other room would prevent her from jumping over to WhatsApp and chatting up OM?

[SteveLW]

One other thing, and remember this is MY perspective. You are not married. So you do not have the same boundaries that I would give to a married man with a WAS. In your case, there is nothing morally wrong with you seeing other women. (Note, I am not a fan of fornication (sex outside of marriage) so I am not advocating that. In fact, if you and I were friends IRL I would have been trying to convince you to marry your SO all along!). But the rules are a little different, in my opinion, when there is no marriage involved. Personally, I would still advise against it because of the complications it can raise, so stick to hanging out with male friends for now.

[MrBrside]

Thanks for the replies..

All makes sense.. Its hard though.. Tough love i suppose..

To be honest, i no longer recognise her.. On one hand i feel sympathy and pity - on the other i am fuming as i as soo sick of the "online" time she is spending on whatapp when she is at home with the kids. She never used to be like this, but since this has kicked off, she feels the need to spend her day on her phone talking to these 2 blokes and her mates: going on about how tough a time she is having and how bad her home life is... Its not worth the row, but i really just want to tell her - "WAKE UP.... You have 3 beautiful girls to cherish, yet your focus is complaining about this to whoever will listen.. "

At least i read this forum / reply / write these messages when at work or when the children are in bed... She will happily spend ages online without a thought. She claimed she had a headache yesterday afternoon and went upstairs - I couldnt be bothered to check too much, as it was kid time.. But every time i did check her status, she was online.. I had great fun with the girls while she sat on the bed messaging people for 45 minutes. And becuase she is so paranoid about her phone, she hides it upstairs... So every 10 minutes or so she "bobs" upstairs for 5 minutes ( obviosuly to check / reply ) , back down, 10 mins later, upstairs again...

Such a shame that something can change a person so much - not that she would ever admit it or see it.

But its things like this that make the detachment easy.... as its not the person i want to be with or loved.

Like my mate said last night, he stopped recognising his Ex wife once she went wayward. - lies, rewritten past etc. And when the fog lifted, she went the other way - as in desperate to reconcile.. she used to park outside of his house and ask where he was if his car wasnt there at midnight... It got so bad he changed his phone and blocked her on facebook...Used to feel sorry for him at the time - never thoght id be here lol.

But onward and upward

I have the majority of the stuff i need to sort the house sale out now, so will start that ball rolling tonight, if she is in a rational frame of mind.. That said, i dont expect much progress

thanks again.

[SteveLW]

But its things like this that make the detachment easy.... as its not the person i want to be with or loved.

May I suggest that detachment isn't all that easy? If it were then her online activities would be having ZERO effect on you. You know when I knew I had properly detached? When I no longer felt the need to check up on her online activities through the methods that I had at my disposal. I suggest getting rid of anything that allows you to check her status. It is unhealthy and counterproductive.

[MrBrside]

Fair point Steve85... thanks for that

[ovrrnbw]

Should I tell her that I went to the pub with my best mate last night and it wasn’t a female?

No, no, no!!!! She can text other guys (and most likely more than that) and explain it away but you go out with a friend and you're trying to comfort her?She will grab your balls and squeeze tight if you put them in her hands like this.

You are pro at this!

Does anybody here consider this whole 180 as emotional abuse / torture to my ex .. I had no issues with it initially but now she is noticing it, you can see its taking the toll - but is the consensus its ok to go distant, even if It hurts them ? or am I being soft ?

Not at all. She wants to talk and (most likely) sleep with other me right? That means you aren't sticking around. If there is emotional abuse, it's coming from her towards you. She is trying to get you to be in an open relationship and is playing your heartstrings to put you where she wants you. I love how strong you are to not give in. I was in such a bad spot when I started here. You are doing a great job, I can't say this enough. And I know it's hard on you, but you are able to think straight.

I suspect judging my the amount of time she is on her phone once I leave the house / room, this distancing is pushing her closer to the other guy.. Is this the norm with most people – just leave them to it ?

You aren't pushing her to the other guy. You've told her before that it is inappropriate. You even told one of the guys to piss off. You can't keep from chasing down every guy in town. She knows you won't stick around for this, right? And it shouldn't even have to be said either.

I remember reading on one of Sandis posts about her finding this forum and it being her wakeup – has anybody every actually mentioned the term “wayward fog” to their partner and let them do the rest ( ie don’t get into it, but give them a breadcrumb )

Nope. She'd probably either get mad at you or say you're overanalyzing this, you're rude, you're mean (typical wayward talk). If she was ready to work on her problems, she'd be doing it already.

But every time i did check her status, she was online..

It will be better for you to just stop checking/monitoring her. You will feel better, b/c you're letting go of something that will only bring you negative feelings.

To be honest, i no longer recognise her

I can't believe how good you are seeing things already. But don't be her man until she fully commits.

I have the majority of the stuff i need to sort the house sale out now, so will start that ball rolling tonight, if she is in a rational frame of mind.. That said, i dont expect much progress frown

Maybe sit tight on that. If she gets serious and brings it up, it sounds like you are prepared. So don't push things further unless you are actually wanting to separate from her.

Great job man!

[MrBrside]

Thanks folks,

Update.. ( for those interesed ) - and i',m sure many can relate..

Discussions didnt go well last night.. She announced as soon as i walked in that she was going to a friends out.. I knew the second she said it she was lying ( getting good at spotting this )

She told me she had felt terrible all day becuase i was no longer the same guy i was last week and i had changed. She then wanted to discuss us / child arrangements when she moves out. I didnt want to go into it becuase the kids were there and i wanted to play with them. This annoyed her even more and she kept pushing it.

When i mentioned this has all happened because of her EA ( kids werent in the room ) she hit the roof and said she was taking the children to live with her mother.... I just walked away...

Managed to get the kids in bed without further incident, but then she wanted to sit down and discuss us...

Told her i wasnt having a conversation, as if she didnt like the way the conversatiot was going, or disagreed with me, she would threaten to take the kids to her mums.. OMG - Full U turn on an hour before - said she never said that, that would be impracticle ( where would they sleep ) - She would never do that unless things got really bad etc etc - totally denied the conversation an hour before..

Made it 100% clear there were only 2 people in a relationship and all options were with her, but i will no longer have a relationship with anybody who messages 2 guys daily. She denied this and said they were "just friends".. and started to list all ther other "friends" she messages daily and said am i saying should she not message these as well ( females ) - very immature response.

She denied deleting any messages from the 2nd guy ( know this is a lie ) and he is just a friend from the gym.

She then started attacking and bringing up arguments / inappropriate ( mental abuse as she puts it ) things i had said from this year to petty things from 5 years ago !

I reckon ive had said 10 bad / upsetting / hurtfull things in the 8 years ( i'm not perfect like i said ) . Its actually sad that such things get brought up, as they are petty / silly.. but in her head, its her reason we are seperating..

Told her i was past these discussions now as nothing would change and we needed to move forward. Emotional detachment came into it and she said she hadnt felt emmotionally attached to me since October. ( which was when this guy messaged her ).. She admitted that she did feel an emotional attachment to both of these guys she is messaging now..... So there is it - She is NOT having an emotional affair according to her - BUT is emotionally attached to these 2 guys she messages every day.. Suspect she would deny this if every asked again, but she said it...

She mentioned going to her friends again, and i know she was lying..

She then went out for 2 hours.. I didnt asked anything about it when she got back, as didnt want to appear interested... And i knew it would be lies anyway...

This is all new to me, but it is shocking how a person i have known and loved for 8 years can change so much in 6 months.. Even before all the rows over the child care / house move etc ( which i expected and i think it normal in most situations ) it was the lies, deceit and coldness.. Until August this year i trusted my ex partner with everything and anything...